Great friends in times of plenty and in times of pain

[Lemmy Caution]

Ten days ago, I sold my MBW Black Themes to RWI member Bansenshukai - he received it a few days later. It was an easy deal all around. Great buyer, good questions, no newbie sillines. An easy, Intra-ConUS sale. Bansenshukai is a gentleman and knowledgeable, sensible buyer: My valued 'Themes found a good home.

Last week, I purchased a 10d from Burnz. In oldskool terms - Burnz is a perfect gentlemen - easy deal, good answers to my few questions and quick shipment. Burnz shipped the package via EMS per my request. I tracked the package via http://www.track-trace.com/post and usps.com after the package arrived stateside (SFO Customs).

The package arrived yesterday (Saturday am) empty. It was a manilla paper bubblewrap package, similar to what I've received other watches and parts in many times. I refused the package.

It appeared to have been torn open on the end with the 'string' but not using the string -can't remember. The value field said: Watch repairs $40. (or watch repair parts?). Burnz and I discussed posting this and agreed that he should address his side. This is my first failed watch buy (out of 20 or so). It is also one of the most drama-free: I cannot heap enough praise on Burnz who has been as thoughtful and communicative as he was prior to the sale.

In the past, I've had two problems with packages from Singapore being delayed. This represents around 30% of the non-ConUS, non-Chinese watches that I've bought over the last 2 years or so. Although, I can see LAX from the top of the hill behind our house. (Most of my watches have been processed at LAX). This one went through SFO and was lost - coincidence?

Though I've already - 'let go' and ascribed it up to the law of averages catching up. For those of you with more experience than I: What did Burnz and I do right/wrong? Thoughts? Lessons?

[Iron Mike]

No idea because it's never happened to me.

But I'm interested to hear thoughts on the subject.

[valerian]

For those of you with more experience than I: What did Burnz and I do right/wrong?

I don't have much experience, actually all my deals went smooth so far. I still want to say: One thing you guys did obviously very right is your way of dealing with the awkward situation. This is all a question of tone and attitude. It takes two gentlemen to stay calm and try and find solutions.

It is far more than the value of a watch. It helps you through life and enables you to laugh into the face of world's most difficult situations. It's called respect for the self and others.

Just my two cents

Val.

[panerai153]

I really don't think you did anything wrong, outside of packing inside a strong cardboard box rather than the envelope, nothing you may have done has anything to do with the outcome of the package. Very good that both of you took a philosophical viewpoint about this and worked it out like two gentlemen.

I would suspect that a baggage handler or postal employee is wearing your watch right now! Either at the origin or in San Francisco. I wouldn't think it was tampered with in Customs, although you can't leave out that possibility. If it were seized, it would be confiscated and you would be notified.

I cring at the thought of shipping in manila envelopes. I know that in the rep trade, almost everything moves like that, but it is so easy for someone to slide an envelope under their jacket, get out of sight of the surveillence cameras, one slice with a razor knife and they are in. Slide out the package, stick it in their pocket and send the empty envelope on through the line. For that reason, I always ship in a sturdy cardboard box. It may cost a couple of dollars more, but much harder to conceal and open. Possibly the guy operating the X-ray scamnner is tipping off someone a little further down the line, "Small envelope with a watch inside, snag it and see what's inside"

Sorry about you losing your watch,it's a bitter pill to swallow, knowing that some low-life is sitting in a bar somewhere bragging about his new watch.

[maxman]

Im sorry to hear about your misfortune. Im also happy that you two gentleman were able to keep your wits about you and not make the situation worse by playing the "blame game". I was told when I first arrived here that If I orderd enough watches, the day would come where I would not be receiving the watch that I payed for, I have been lucky thus far. If someone wants the package bad enough then It wont matter how It's packaged. That being said, the cardboard box Is a much better way to go. If not anything else It Is a much better way to protect the timpiece. My reps come In a box with a styrofoam box Inside for extra protection. This Is also the way I package watches when I send them out for delivery. Mike

[lanikai]

I don't beleive it has anything to do with the buyer nor the seller

the postal service is getting strung out with lack of manpower and security within the system could be affected

it took almost 3weeks for a priority parcel to arrive from within Conus

I would not look upon this as a "fault"of any individual but rather the bad issues within our system these days

It would be nice if federal emlyees were totally honest

but we are dealing with human nature

Sorry for your loss though

I hope that does not reflect on our hobby as a whole

A/C

Lani

[freddy333]

Not much to add regarding the transaction/shipment itself, but, in general, never include the word 'watch' on any declaration or contents listing. It will catch the eye of every miscreant along the way. Instead, use 'clock' or 'timing' or something synonymous that is easily explained (as a means to counter postal theft) to a customs official should they inquire.

[burnz]

lemmy, thanks for your kind words.

you, my friend, have been an absolute pleasure to deal with too. like i said to you before, we both could have ended up a lot worse for it than where we currently are, so kudos to you for how you've handled this.

over some 40-50 sales and shipments i've done, this is the first time a shipment of mine has failed to reach its intended recipient. ironic thing was, it didn't get lost in the mail using conventional airmail with no tracking, but instead it happened through the more expensive and reliable EMS shipping where full tracking is available. while i could've rationalised this by saying i should've stuck with my usual modus operandi of shipping via registered airmail which appears somewhat more "discreet" and less likely to attract customs inspections as compared to EMS/FedEx/UPS etc, at the end of the day, it was probably a random pickup and the customs agent in question probably took a fancy to it.

besides, i happened to ship another sale item, also via EMS (to MD, USA) a couple days after i shipped Lemmy's package.

thankfully, that one managed to reach its recipient without any issue. interestingly, the tracking info for that package didn't mention anything about customs, while Lemmy's did. did the same customs declaration etc for both packages i.e. watch repair parts under $40 value.

so while i'm not going to give up on using EMS, i would be inclined to advise any potential buyers in future to stick to just registered airmail if they do not require urgent delivery. though it has worked all this while, i will take some of your advice to revise my customs declaration and not have any mention of "watch". so perhaps "clock repair parts" will do

[hiker01]

I feel your pain! This happened to me once so far! Ronin send me a Daytona about a month ago shipped from Denver via USPS Priority and when I received it, the box shows that it was opened and re-taped! After opening, viola........the Daytona was gone! Only thing left inside was the spare links and a spare dial! Reported it to the USPS customer center, but until now I have heard nothing!

[burnz]

that sucks Hike. i guess no matter how well one packages it, be it nicely boxed up or bubble wrap envelope, if the postal service guy is desperate enough for a new watch, there's no stopping him! honestly, it's luck of the draw. i figured that for each one of us, at some point in time, we're all bound to draw the short straw. just pray that that only happens when less valuable items are in transit.

[Lemmy Caution]

Thanks Burnz - Thanks all -

Being civil is the only way to handle something like this. As far as shipping watches? Probably best to label the package "novelty item" and use a box. Not that I haven't received at least 8 watches in bubble wrap mailers. One thing I've noticed about Josh/Angus - they completely encase the box in tape and plastic label wrap making entry a committed effort.

Still wonder about using simple airmail as opposed to EMS - maybe this is the best way from Singapore - another seller from Singapore always used Airmail with 0 problems.

Who knows? I'm still blaming the law of averages. AND "Murphy" because he has big ears and knows how badly I want a nice 10d.

[mjmj]

I don't have much experience, actually all my deals went smooth so far. I still want to say: One thing you guys did obviously very right is your way of dealing with the awkward situation. This is all a question of tone and attitude. It takes two gentlemen to stay calm and try and find solutions.

It is far more than the value of a watch. It helps you through life and enables you to laugh into the face of world's most difficult situations. It's called respect for the self and others.

Just my two cents

Val.

+1

[ghost]

Burnz is a stand-up guy, and it's a shame sh!+ like that has gone down

[Lemmy Caution]

Burnz is the best - As I said there are not enough superlatives to describe his handling of this deal. Bummer it happened to both of us.

[Ronin]

As Lani indicated USPS issues, and Hike and I experienced, and there was a similar thread from JustasGood having similar Postal issues.

In the last year I have experienced:

1.) Received an "empty" envelope that should have contained a strap from EMS/USPS (Tape was peeled back and strap stolen)

2.) Sent HikeUSA a watch +parts, box was smashed/opened, watch stolen parts remained. (my loss, I ate ~$250)

3.) Lazy Postal workers who FORCE the trip to the post office for pickup if Signature is required. (They won't ride elevators to attempt delivery)

4.) USPS Returned to me one of their Priority Flat Rate envelop stating "This is not a flat rate envelope" Uhhh, yes it is/was, and resent and it was fine.

5.) Made me come to the post office for "Postage Due" on a greeting card that had TWO .45 cent stamps on it. PO apologized when they saw the two stamps.

Personally, I am seriously thinking of going UPS/FedEx for my CONUS shipments.

[1976]

I had a deal with Burnz and he is a grate guy to deal with.The problem in my opinion is EMS,if you asked to be shipped via Registered Airmail you would be fine.