What Did The Pope Say!

[gran]

You mean the obviously fake beards? or that the whole thing is staged?

[slay]

@Slayer...

thats what I thought. You claim christians are not violently trying to spread their religion, I proof you different and you have nothing more to say. if it had been the other way around, I would have apologized!

But I see this "..." as an apology you do not want to make in public.

btw.

watch your head in bbk and dont get between the lines!

[gran]

come on slay this thread is not about you and neil lets stay on the pope and what injurious he might have said shall we and yes I hope TTK will not be hurt by anyone be they Christians or not

[ekhunter]

Am I the only one here that sees hypocrisy in this photo? When the Pope quotes someone else regarding violence, and then that group responds with rent-a-riots and posters (in English???) claiming hypocrisy... what is wrong with this picture?

Their English is remarkably good. Clerics calling for the Pope's head. That sounds peaceful to me. For the Pope's words, an innocent nun gets shot and many Christian churches get burned to the ground for what, for words. Do you think quoting someone else will get this reaction from a peaceful bunch?, I don't think so, but a violent bunch, well, their actions speak louder than words. They shot a Nun. Is their any quicker ticket to HELL, if their is one, I don't think so. Those cats definately won't get their 30 virgins, but they may end up as Satan's bitches.

[Everythingape]

Same [censored] as with the norwegian and danish flag-burnings earlier this year.. Agitators stage "demonstrations" to get the ball rolling.. It's like after 911, a reporter asked a celebrating and whooping old woman in Palestine what she was celebrating, and she had no idea..

People don't seem to work a lot in the daytime, so they go around burning stuff and making slogans.. And the few of them who know what the pope said.. I'm sure they will have forgot it in 3 weeks.

[gran]

.. And the few of them who know what the pope said.. I'm sure they will have forgot it in 3 weeks.

I am afraid it may run much deeper than that. The west are seen as arrogant and offensive (and rich and powerful). Probably the seed that the Pope is anti-islam has been born in many a muslim and it will take lots of hard work (and positive help from muslim clericks) to repair the damage.

[Guest TTK]

hats what I thought. You claim christians are not violently trying to spread their religion, I proof you different and you have nothing more to say. if it had been the other way around, I would have apologized!

I don't know what drugs you're taking....but you must have taken an overdose......if you're this divorced from reality....!

Proof....what proof.....!

BTW.....my remark @slayer....

Wasn't an apology....I was trying hard to think of something to say....at a level you would understand......I failed miserably......what can I say....oops there I go again....!

[manuel]

Dont worry about the pope.

he currently have armored mercedes.

This is the pope's car. People have reported to see him with chicks around the vatican with a very loud hip hop music.

Edited September 20, 2006 by manuel

[gran]

Dont worry about the pope.

he currently have armored mercedes.

This is the pope's car. People have reported to see him with chicks around the vatican with a very loud hip hop music.

.....I did not know he liked hip hop music

[Chronus]

There is no negotiating with terrorists. killing innocent people will never EVER bring people round the terrorists view point. Their actions seek to cause divisions in communities and cultures worldwide, and further the distrust between people with different backgrounds and beliefs. We can't let them succeed in ther goals.

The problem here is that it HAS worked, with the formation of Israel and the bombings by the then terrorists on the British.

The IRA saw that worked and obviously took it from there.

The pity is that man-made religions are used as a tool of control, with so many restrictions that, for example, led to the stagnation of Ancient Greece as the pre-eminent civilization, as they embraced Christianity. The Judaic religions are the first to outlaw homosexuality to be seen as different, and christianity went on to ban the other religions and "demonize" the popular Gods, such as Pan, who is now the image of the devil (even though scripturally, neither the devil or hell exists in judaism, christianity or islam).

Funny how these, initially polytheistic, religions have worked politically to gain the positions that they hold today. All justified by a bunch of myths and fables - children's stories

Great read though.(PS. I havent read all the pages, got to page 2 and posted and now have to get back to work!)

[gran]

Geat input Chronus and yes I do agree that the religions are man made. However, being raised and having lived in Judaic culture(s) my whole life I do see them as a natural part of life. Great art and music have resulted from these beleifs and so it can not be all bad can it?

g.

[Pugwash]

They shot a Nun. Is their any quicker ticket to HELL, if their is one, I don't think so. Those cats definately won't get their 30 virgins, but they may end up as Satan's bitches.

This is a religious answer, and as such, is completely and utterly biased and therefore to be ignored.

Firstly, you can't judge people by your religion and not respect that theirs may be the one true way unless you want to just give up on debate and preach to us (at which point, the door is over there, god-botherer) and secondly, 30 Virgins? It's 72, and no-one, not even suicide bombers or other 'martyrs' actually believe that, as it's 'western' propaganda from a misinterpretation of a holy text.

To acknowledge they may be on their way to hell is to acknowledge that they may be right.

[ekhunter]

This is a religious answer, and as such, is completely and utterly biased and therefore to be ignored.

Firstly, you can't judge people by your religion and not respect that theirs may be the one true way unless you want to just give up on debate and preach to us (at which point, the door is over there, god-botherer) and secondly, 30 Virgins? It's 72, and no-one, not even suicide bombers or other 'martyrs' actually believe that, as it's 'western' propaganda from a misinterpretation of a holy text.

To acknowledge they may be on their way to hell is to acknowledge that they may be right.

By judging people, do you mean codemning someone who murdered a nun, a woman who gave her life to her God. I forget, they don't respect women or God, right? If they respected God, then would they take innocent lives of civilians? Maybe that is the 'one true way'. You seem to be very sympathetic towards these savages, and when I say savages, I mean extremist. I'm not preaching to anyone, by any means, just condemning murderers and arsonist. I think anyone who lives in a civilized society would do so. 30 virgins, 72 virgins, whatever? You state this is western propoganda from a 'misinterpretation' of a holy text. Isn't that just what these Iman's do? Misinterpret holy text. Why don't they call a 'fatah' or 'holy war' against the terrorist that fly planes into buildings, or blow up cars killing innocent civilians. Oh!, I'm sorry, aren't these extremist supposed to kill infidels? Anyway, how do you know what the martyrs and SUICIDE BOMBERS bombers believe anyway? Thinking about doing yourself in? Call it a religous answer if you must, but knowing right from wrong has nothing to do with religion. Trying to understand why they do what they do won't help, they are fanatics, and as this thread originally started about the Pope, I think it is the fanatics that are so stirred up about what he said. (i.e. the President of Iran) and these fanatics are the ones being condemned by most on here, not Muslims. I go back to my original thread. Americans are not anti-Islamic, but anti-terrorist, and anti-supporters of terrorist, and if most or even all of the terrorist happen to be Muslims, then that is their problem. Anyone who believes this to be anti-Islam is a FOOL! I'll also reiterate what I said earlier, but expound further on what I said. Only an IDIOT would go on a Watch Forum and call the Pope a NAZI, and not expect to [censored] people off. It's equal to coming on here and calling Allah an [censored]. You just don't do that. Right! Think before you type Pugwash, unless you like stirring up people by attacking the head of their church on a 'watch forum' none the less.

[Mickey Padge]

Good point Chronus, but I was refering to Muslim extremists who want to pull the entire world into the dark ages with their insane backwards beliefs.

[Pugwash]

Only an IDIOT would go on a Watch Forum and call the Pope a NAZI, and not expect to [censored] people off.

History called him a Nazi. I'm just merely quoting ancient documents.

Hang on ...

(geddit?)

Ok, let's look at the data. The pope was in the Hitler Youth movement, which means he had to at some point call himself a nazi, even if he lied. His revisionist stance on German history (a highly controversial claim that a "ring of criminals" were responsible for nazism and that the German people were as much their victims as anyone else) is just two steps away from holocaust denial and his refusal to acknowledge anti-semetism in Germany when visiting Auschwitz do nothing to dispel this possibility.

The pope was a Nazi, he was a soldier in the Nazi army and he was a member of Hitler Youth. This is historical fact that no-one denies. Now, all they do is discuss how much of a Nazi he was, playing down certain aspects and playing up others as the catholic PR machine does what it does best: preaches fairy tales as gospel, literally.

Disclosure: I'm an aetheist, albeit an educated one.

[Pugwash]

Think before you type Pugwash, unless you like stirring up people by attacking the head of their church on a 'watch forum' none the less.

So, we're only allowed to insult Muslims and their entire faith?

Reread what you posted and tell me if it sounds like the fanatical rantings of a fevered extremist to you.

If there's one thing I can't abide, it's hypocrisy.

[manuel]

.....I did not know he liked hip hop music

Well, forget about the chicks and the hip hop music. That was just a joke. BTW, my mum teaches catholic religion in a primary school.

I would like to add too that religion are man made.

This is also suggested by the catholic church, but not directly said. Please let me explain.

As we all know the Roman Catholic Church has commited persecutions to contrary thinking people in the past.

Everybody may have heard about the famous Inquisition, which took relevant importance in Spain, the Spanish Inquisition.

The Church excuses itself about its mistakes in the past and shouts about their new vision.

A special reform was made during the II Vatican Council. One of the most notorious things was that priests stop celebrating the eucharist in Latin.

Well, the church is changing. Some people may think its changing slowly, others will say its ok.

I personally dont mind about these issues because i no longer practice religion.

So the Catholic Church is changing. Its changes derives from its very nature:

Man Beliefs.

I think that if we live enough to see woman as priests or catholic gay brides (I am not against gay ppl)

we will realize that the Church as well as other institutions are changing due to public or actual demands.

The conclusion to me is that Religion is not dictated by God, but by man. Then I am not going to follow any religion made by the man because I am better than the rest of mortals.

Then, I think a Church is similar to another institution. Then I dont take its words literally.

I dont take Religion word by word.

I previously said that I am not a religious person.

But I think thats not all true. I know I am very devoted fellower of I, myself, and my religion.

I wish to be associated with buddhism, because the idea of Karma and Nirvana really appeals to me.

Also the idea of self-improvement and self realisation without anybody help. Without man help.

Too bad I know very little about it.

Regards.

[gran]

Glad to hear that manuel all beleifs evolve and change with time lets hope they will soon change quickly enough to make this world a better place

g.

[ekhunter]

So, we're only allowed to insult Muslims and their entire faith?

Reread what you posted and tell me if it sounds like the fanatical rantings of a fevered extremist to you.

If there's one thing I can't abide, it's hypocrisy.

Who insulted Muslims or their Faith? Only the fanatics of their faith. look, the Muslims I've talked to don't give a damn what the Pope said, and are ashamed at the fanatics for hijacking their religion and trying to make it into their own personal holy war. It wasn't a bunch of Catholic Cardinals that flew into the WTC Towers, it was Islamic Fanatics. Where's the hypocrisy in that? One can continue to call the Pope a Nazi, but he was never in the Nazi Party, nor was he in the SS, he was in the Hitler Youth, it wasn't his choice, all male children in Germany were required to be in it, and he did go AWOL on them too, but I'm not going to spend all day defending the Pope against these charges again and again. The Pope said something stupid, and he apologized. I'm sure you'll respond, but I feel the need to finish this with a 'agree to disagree on issues'. This could go back and forth for eternity. We all see things from different angles, and I'll say this is one of them. I'd rather talk about Replica Watches, but sometimes, I just can't bite my tongue on other issues. Nothing personal Pugwash!

[gran]

UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez took his verbal battle with the United States to the floor of the U.N. General Assembly on Wednesday, calling President Bush "the devil."

I love the USA but I was so impressed by the president of Venezuela that I have to break into this thread. This man gave his message and insults straight and meant every part of it. One might think he is crazy or a communist but at least he has intent, the power of speech and is a real man (=he got balls).

I heard his entire speach and certainly I do not agree with all that he said.......... but still I truly and fully enjoyed it . I also got the sad feeling that this man is as lost as his oponent (or in Hugo Chavez words) "the devil". Obviosuly lots of people around the world enjoyed this speach enormously. Lets hope the next president of the US can repair the damage that has been done to the reputation of the great country the USA.

[jraines87]

So you think Chavez is a real man cause he has "Balls"? I guess you think Osama is a real man too?

[ryyannon]

- I Will Fear No Devil -

p.s.: Chavez is an ass.

[Chronus]

Geat input Chronus and yes I do agree that the religions are man made. However, being raised and having lived in Judaic culture(s) my whole life I do see them as a natural part of life. Great art and music have resulted from these beleifs and so it can not be all bad can it?

g.

Maybe... but the influence of Ancient Greek culture still pervades. So does Persian and Middle-Eastern.

What great contributions to mathematics, literature and poetry (The Iliad, to name but one), Philosophy (Socrates, Plato, Aristotle), etc etc.

The influence can be good but not the unquestioning belief of "I was born <religion> therefore that is what I am, and all others are wrong". Just some fluke of luck that you were born on one side of the globe and not another.

You do know that the Catholic Church has built up untold riches over it's dominion over the world ?

South America didn't lose their gold because they dropped it all in the ocean by mistake.

Some popular beliefs over the centuries by religions (mostly Judaic).

- The earth is flat ("four corners of the earth", etc)

- Witches

- Devil(s)/demons

- Christmas (conveniently at the end of Saturnalia)

- Easter: what does this have to do with Eostre/Ishtar and the celebrations that accompanied this goddess?

- other similar retaining of "inferior pagan" religions (many churches in the ancient times were just converted temples from the original religions).

etc etc

At the end of it all, a creator god is just a hypothesis to explain the unexplainable and to sate people's curiosity. However this appears to me to have led to controlling mechanisms (modern religions) which work with other mechanisms such as government and society.

One question these religions have never answered to me in a satisfactory manner,

"If God created everything, then who created God?"

[gran]

So you think Chavez is a real man cause he has "Balls"? I guess you think Osama is a real man too?

Nationalism and terrorism aside. Yes! It is my opinion that Osama is a real man (= that he has balls)

BTW was that meant to be a trick question?

Best regards

Gunnar

- I Will Fear No Devil -

Good one

[gran]

"If God created everything, then who created God?"

sounds like a circular argument to me and for sure the answer is a given

BTW the greeks (i.e started with Aristoteles) operated with the concept of the "unmoved mover" to explain how God put the universe into motion that explanation was not very refined either.