"Short" review of Tourby's latest spring-loaded T-48 S/S crown

[babola]

Well I guess was lucky enough to be selected by Tourby as one of the few testers of the new spring-loaded S/S T-48-SL crown.

I’m sticking to my side of the deal as promised, hence this little pictorial review.

This review pretty much complements the original great T-48-SL crown review done by ‘oncyte’ few days ago and adds few more thoughts and recommendations.

First of all let me thank Tourby on this little gem, and his continuous perseverance and tenacity to make this little hobby of ours a better and more enjoyable experience for all of us.

Anyway, off to the nitty-gritty stuff…

The package arrived today, and was one of the most ‘comprehensive’ spare parts packages I’ve ever received from anyone, full stop. It not only consisted of the crown and the custom threaded 0.9mm crown stem , it came with new exceptionally well finished custom crown tube, and two stem extenders, one with 0.9mm and another with 1.2mm tap. The 1.2mm extender is redundant in this case, but the 0.9mm has a potential…more about this at the bottom of the review page in my closing notes.

The package content

Custom (hand-made) threaded 0.9mm crown stem, 0.9mm stem extender and 1.2mm stem extender:

Comparison with the original T-48 S/S crown

The two crowns for purpose of comparison – the original rigid-neck T-48 crown and the new T-48-SL spring-loaded crown are shown below.

My original T-48 comes without the pronounced teeth bevel effect as observed on most of the T-48 and new T-48-SL crowns. The bevel is introduced by over-polishing the teeth surface by the crown maker. It appears there’s nothing much they can do about it, except maybe abstain from polishing the crowns altogether.

Tourby has already talked about this ‘issue’ before so I’ll refrain from repeating that here.

As you can see from the pic below, the new SL crown comes with slightly longer neck to accommodate a spring inside it:

Here you can see the difference between the neck length as well as teeth finish.

The pronounced teeth bevel on the T-48-SL crown on the right is quite noticeable on this side-by-side picture:

On the picture below you can see the crown edge finish as well as the inner dish finish. The original T-48 came with brushed concentric circle finish, while the T-48-SL comes with almost mirror polished finish. Neither are as per gen specs, but they’re both very close. Most of the genuine crowns I’ve seen come with ‘almost’ polished dish finish, which is more like finely brushed finish with sunburst effect stemming from the middle of the dish towards the outside crown edge. This is minor and not an issue at all, if it bugs you you can always polish up the original T-48 dish or apply Dremel with 1000/1500 grit tip on the T-48-SL polished dish. The latter requires a little more skill, though.

The depth of the dish on two crowns below is also different. The original T-48 dish comes with gen specs (0.5mm depth), while the new SL dish is 0.3mm. More on this and how it will affect you the installer, I’ll cover in a separate section below. Tourby already explained in other related threads why his maker had to resort to a shallower dish on spring-loaded crown, so I won’t be repeating this once again here.

One other notable difference between the original T-48 and spring loaded one is that the crown edge is a tad thinner on the SL crown. The pic below also shows this very well.

The Proof-of-concept parts (44mm S/S Luminor case and CG)

When I first contacted Tourby, I offered to test this new crown on a case and CG combo that I believed the spring-loaded crown with shallower dish should provide the best fit. The case and CG used for this test are so called new-style Cartel. This is evident with the crown tube that sits a little higher, as well as new-style so-called oversized CG.

The oversized CG comes with the bridge of lager radius then genuine, but CG lever of same length and size as the genuine and so called old-school Cartel one. This presents a little problem with the crowns of standard dish depth of .5mm – they simply require to be installed away from the case to make a tight connection with the tip of the lever. Most of the new Cartel reps from late 2008 onwards come with this type of oversized CG, and there’s not much you can do about it, apart some serious machining and modding of the CG feet, or lifting the crown away from the case. The former is a one-way-street and requires certain skill and tools, while the latter leaves you with an unsightly and unsatisfactory solution.

Let me just note that Davidsen CGs don’t suffer from this illness but have other issues. Also, the so called ‘ultimate’ Pam reps coming from that “other’ Pam rep factory in Guangzhou Angus and Ruby used to source their reps from, don’t have the oversized CG issue, but once again, just as the CGs coming from Davidsen these are slightly “off” and require further refinishing touches to make them look and feel close to gen.

Photo of my late-2008 Cartel case, which is also the current one is shown below.

The crown tube allows for more o-ring seals to be inserted between the crown and the tube.

The CG profile is shown below. Not a bad CG by any rep standards.

New T-48-SL crown, as installed on the test case

The following three photos show the crown and lever in three possible positions, closed and locked, winding position and fully extended in time setting position.

It will take a few tries until you get the stem cut to the ‘right’ length. Please be careful here, as it’s very easy to overdo this part of a mod, from which there’s no way back if you do. Take it easy and start with about 2-3mm longer than you think the stem should be. This will give you good feel about the correct length you should eventually end up with. After all, you’re playing with a 20 Euro piece of metal rod here, the one that take quite a long time to re-thread from 1.2 to 0.9 tap by a watchmaker . The price may not be a big deal for you, but sourcing a replacement one from Tourby may take some time.

Pictures speak for themselves. I don’t believe any additional commentary is required.

The CG lever is in its original rep factory form, with the un-modified tip. The whole CG lever and crown setup projects quality, and very genuine feel. I owned a genuine 111E in the past and can still remember that distinctive genuine Panerai crown ‘push&click’ feeling. This crown is very much like that.

Personal observations and conclusion

My personal opinion is that this new crown is a step above any other rep and aftermarket PAM crowns we’ve been offered so far, excluding genuine ones. I will wholeheartedly recommend this crown to anyone who is looking to upgrade his or hers rep crown to get closer to that genuine look and feel. However, I also have reservations so please red below.

Good points:

- Finally a decent spring-loaded Pam crown that’s a step up from Davidsens or EL/Honpo rep SL crowns from the past

- This crown, just as Palpatine (Palp) crown from 2006 helps alleviating the issue with newer style oversized Cartel CGs

- Extra wide profile with the right teeth cut-out angle at the edges

- Drop-in install into a standard Cartel rep CG tube

Not so good points:

- The shallower dish will ONLY fit the oversized cartel CGs without any modification. The genuine, JimmyFu, old-school rep CGs, LH etc CGs will require modification of the lever tip. I wouldn’t go there, but it’s ultimately your choice

- Just like it was a problem with original T-48 crowns, the teeth on the T-48-SL crown are unnecessary over-polished and unnaturally bevelled when looking from left to right side of the teeth surface. It isn’t a great look, but it’s OK, but only so. On the other hand the Ti and the PVD T-48 crowns that haven’t undergone teeth polishing process by the crown maker are excellent, and very gen-like. I originally suggested to Tourby that his maker should forgo teeth polishing on S/S crowns altogether, and I still stick to that. IMO it is much easier (even for a non-modder types) to apply a little Cape Cod TLC on top of the teeth by yourself, if you’re after the polished look, then end up with over-polished and bevelled teeth, but that’s just me.

Additional thoughts:

This crown wasn't meant to be a ‘cure-all’ solution and isn't going to suit everyone. If you already own a decent T-48/T-60 or even one of the latest Palp crowns and you’re satisfied with look and feel…I’d say stick to your old crowns, no need to ‘upgrade’

The price at 30(crown)+20(custom 0.9mm stem)+10(Int delivery) = 60Euro is quite good, although could be made even more attractive by not having to pay 20Euro for a hand threaded stem. Tourby also agreed, and we may have a solution to this…however it will require a little modding on your side. More about this in the last section below.

Possible solution to an unnecessary additional cost for a custom 0.9mm hand-threaded stem

After I installed my crown, I started thinking about other ways of dealing with the 0.9mm tap requirement on the crown neck side.

It is possible to source a so-called crown stem converters from places like esslinger.com and similar. In our case here, we could source an extended with inner tap(at the thicker part or the ‘head’) of 1.2mm to fit the standard 1.2mm 6497 stem, and outer tap of 0.9mm to fit inside the T-48-SL crown neck. These are dime a dozen, a few dollars if even so…and I remember Tourby mentioning of a possibility of supplying these with his crowns for free.

However, due to very tight tolerances between the crown and the stem in respect to the length of a threaded part of a stem that goes inside the crown, further modding of the stem converter/extender will be required to fit.

I do not have a a spare 1.2mm 6497 stem, nor the 1.2-to-0.9mm stem converter so couldn’t test my theory, and didn’t want to ‘play’ with the provided custom threaded 0.9mm 6497 stem and 0.9 extender as I didn’t want to potentially stuff up the existing setup along the way.

This is still my plan, so I’m planning to place an order for a standard 6497 1.2mm stem, as well as one of the aforementioned 0.9/1.2 stem converters/extenders. I should update you on progress as soon as I receive these parts and get around next time to do some modding.

The picture below shows my line of thought. I used Tourby’s 0.9 stem extender to pose as a 0.9mm-to-1.2mm stem converter/extender. The difference is only with the tap inside the thick part (the head)…the one on Tourby’s is 0.9mm, on the converter it’s 1.2mm.

The problem with the converter is that its thick part is simply too long for this setup to work, however…

Based on some of my initial measurements of both the crown neck, the stem and the clearance required between the two, the thick part of the converter could be cut-off by about 1/3 to 2/5 of its length (don't cut more than this as the thick part isn't threaded at the full length, just 2/3 of it actually), an the thin threaded part cut to allow 4-5 full screw revolutions when attaching the crown to it. This still needs to be confirmed and actually done, but I believe that’s it

Also, if you’re about to try this by yourself, please DO NOT attempt to cut-off the thick part by pliers or wire cutters, the steel is still quite soft and by doing this you can squeeze the ‘head’ a little too much and deform the shape and threads on the ‘mouth’. I advise using a sanding or fine grinding method instead.

Anyway, that all from me for now…if you’d like to add, comment, argue or anything else you desire…post in this thread or send me a PM.

Cheers and thanks for your patience ,

babola

[scotty]

Class isn't he.....

That's a superb thread giving great information and insight.....congrats!

[esco]

Thank you for this great write up. It seems like case and CG will matter a bit more specifically when using the new SL T48's. Great review

[Mickey Padge]

Fantastic write up, very informative, thanks very much!

Regarding the crowns bevel and slope, this picture is a concern.....

The sloping is very pronounced, worse than the original T48 crown, there is a marked misshapen aspect to each of the ridges, as it tappers away, clearly seen in the crowns shadows and reflections. I really hope T stops the over polishing on these, because a sharp, square cut look is very desirable, and so far these crowns don't have that, unless they are PVD or TI.....

Cheers!

[Eton]

Thanks for the review!!!

[oncyte]

Great review!

Just wondering how short did you cut the stem?

[w0lf]

Very well put together. I enjoyed reading as much as I enjoyed learning about the new crowns

[HeadToucha]

Nice review & well documented

Thanks for taking your time to do it babola

[babola]

Great review!

Just wondering how short did you cut the stem?

Thanks mate...mine ended up cut at 11.21mm in the end measured with digi-calipers. This however will greatly depend on the type and size of a crown tube, my guess is the finished stem will be of slightly different length for most people as the cases/tubes are all sorts out there.

cheers,

b

[babola]

Thanks for your kind words, guys...hope I haven't overdone the so-called "short" review

[fishgodeep]

"The Word" on T's new crowns!

Kudos D - first class review

Thanks for taking the time...fancy doing any more ?

S

[dluddy]

Thanks D. Outstanding overview of this exciting new offering from T

Nothing like a spring when you open the CG

[babola]

"The Word" on T's new crowns!

Kudos D - first class review

Thanks for taking the time...fancy doing any more ?

S

Ha ha, anytime mate...those new T-hands could use a bit of a review, eh?

Thanks D. Outstanding overview of this exciting new offering from T

Nothing like a spring when you open the CG

Thanks mate, you're right about the spring effect when opening/closing - it's a big plus for sure!

All things pros & cons being considered, this is THE S/S crown at this moment in time, well made and exudes quality, thanks Tourby once again!

The new 'Palp' standard deep-dish crown offering comes close second IMO, but that's just me.

cheers,

b

[mir36]

Very insightful. Thanks for sharing. I wish T offered these in PVD as well.

[haveblue]

...hope I haven't overdone the so-called "short" review

Definitely very well done....and containing the perfect amount of great info...I appreciate the level of explaination, detail, and the pros/cons comparisons that you put into this.

Thank you for your effort and time.

Edited June 17, 2010 by haveblue

[StormTooper4]

Excellent post thanks for putting that together and mucho respect to T for making those crowns

[babola]

Excellent post thanks for putting that together and mucho respect to T for making those crowns

Thanks mate...yeah kudos to Tourby, and there's yet more interesting stuff to come from him in the near future :-)

[kbiz]

Great review for sure... the bevel/over polish is a definite deal breaker for me though... I've had a great number of Gen crowns from a lot of different series... and that bevel is very noticeable... I love the work that's gone into this but it's a mistake IMO to ruin it at the end as it ends up looking like a rep crown rather than a Gen crown. If offered without polish I could consider using this crown is future builds... again thanks for the review!

[Drulee]

Were these just the prototypes, or is this what we'll be getting when we receive our current orders? Just hoping that the over polishing that kbiz mentions may be rectified with the batch that is being sent out (1 more week for Ti, 3 weeks for SS).