CG problem on new 236

[wtchgk]

Hope someone can help out who knows how the crown and CG on the gen work.

By know most of you know about the problem that the GG lever on some of the new watches sticks out too much near the location of the pin. I am trying to understand the problem and options to fix it.

When I take off the CG then the lever is reasonably flush with the CG body.

On my new watch, the crown, specifically its outer rim on the side of the case touches the hex tube. So the Crown cannot move when the CG lever is being closed and what gives is the lining of the pin hole of the CG and therefore the lever gets pushed out.

The crown does have an indentation on the side of the case where a gasket is located. My specific question is this: Shouldn

[Drulee]

Have you unscrewed the CG yet? If you do, verify that the top of the lever is flush when closed. If it isn't then it is a problem that we don't have a solution for yet. However, if it is, then you may be able to sand down the tube and stem, to lower the crown just enough so it doesn't push up when closed. But this should only be done by someone who has done it many times before and who knows how, you should have an extra stem hand too

[wtchgk]

Have you unscrewed the CG yet? If you do, verify that the top of the lever is flush when closed. If it isn't then it is a problem that we don't have a solution for yet. However, if it is, then you may be able to sand down the tube and stem, to lower the crown just enough so it doesn't push up when closed. But this should only be done by someone who has done it many times before and who knows how, you should have an extra stem hand too

Yes, the lever is flush when the CG is unscrewed and I understand that what you are suggesting is an option for fixing it. However, I am still trying to understand how this is supposed to work. Isn't the purpose of the spring-loaded crown that it can move and press the gasket tight when the CG lever is being closed?

[seraphe]

Yes, the lever is flush when the CG is unscrewed and I understand that what you are suggesting is an option for fixing it. However, I am still trying to understand how this is supposed to work. Isn't the purpose of the spring-loaded crown that it can move and press the gasket tight when the CG lever is being closed?

I think I understand your ponder...

Does the crown move inwards into the case when you lock the lever on the CG? If so, it is just a little but insufficient to not push the lever outwards from the CG?

I see 3 possible solutions -

1. If the crown does not move enough, shorten the stem and/or change the gasket

2. If the crown does not move at all, check the construction of crown tube vs crown. Perhaps need to trim part of crown base.

3. Change the lining in CG pin hole to something harder... perhaps of nylon.

[wtchgk]

Drulee, seraphe thanks for your replies.

I realize, I should have been more clear. Primarily, I try to understand the correct construction of the tube and crown combination.

I include a rough sketch. Case A shows the situation with my watch. When the crown is in winding position, it sits directly against the tube. When the lever gets closed it cannot move. I am wondering whether the diameter of the tube and the 'dish' on the case-side of the crown should be such that the crown can move a bit over the tube when the lever gets closed as shown in case B. My thinking is this: if B is correct then the problem could be due to manufacturing tolerances and getting a matched tube and crown would solve the problem properly.

Edited September 23, 2010 by wtchgk

[rolli]

looks like the new daylights are all B-Stock

not high grade A-Stock.

the dealer and factory knew this problem and said .... it must be sold out. hurry.....

this flaw we will fix it with the next upgrades.

not bad

rolli

[rangers158]

looks like the new daylights are all B-Stock

not high grade A-Stock.

the dealer and factory knew this problem and said .... it must be sold out. hurry.....

this flaw we will fix it with the next upgrades.

not bad

rolli

Totally agree with you. The CG itself does not evem sit flush with the case... Stop paying good money for 2nd rate quality goods...

[rolli]

the dealer must pay more for the A-Stock and less for the B and C-Stock.

so mostly they buy the B- and C-Stock.

they earn a lot more with them.

that's why you get pams with flaws.

when i see the crown-guards and lever, this is obvious B / C-Stock.

and now the flaws with the crowns and crown position.

rolli

Totally agree with you. The CG itself does not evem sit flush with the case... Stop paying good money for 2nd rate quality goods...

[w0lf]

Rolli,

I really don't think there are different quality tears for this model. The fact that this is the only universal area of concern on these models with even the best examples still exhibiting the issue still but to a lesser degree, and meanwhile everything else on the watch is nearly 100% perfect; makes me think that the factory simply dropped the ball on the CG/crown fitment.

[wtchgk]

the dealer must pay more for the A-Stock and less for the B and C-Stock.

so mostly they buy the B- and C-Stock.

they earn a lot more with them.

that's why you get pams with flaws.

when i see the crown-guards and lever, this is obvious B / C-Stock.

and now the flaws with the crowns and crown position.

rolli

As I see it, if the crown and tube were contructed as is shown in case B of my sketch, then that would solve the cg problem. As I mentioned before, the CG lever is essentially flush when it is unscrewed or taken off the case. Therefore, if the crown and tube were constructed as in case B of my pic, then the lever would move the spring-loaded crown towards the case and would stay fixed at its pin and thus be flush with the CG body.

[rolli]

all maker of this watches have substandard goods.

the maker are not only big factories, mostly they are small watchmaker with some unskilled worker.

they make in their own direction the watches or in connection as project with the here well known dealer.

and believe me all the maker have A - B - C Stock and different prices.

and the maker here for the daylight models is no amateur, he is a profis.

he has the genuine daylight models as saple on his desk / bench. all the single parts were the 1:1 sample for the copy.

rolli

Rolli,

I really don't think there are different quality tears for this model. The fact that this is the only universal area of concern on these models with even the best examples still exhibiting the issue still but to a lesser degree, and meanwhile everything else on the watch is nearly 100% perfect; makes me think that the factory simply dropped the ball on the CG/crown fitment.

[w0lf]

Ok, I'm not sure I understand completely, so correct me if I'm off base:

1) Some models are made by small shops, independent watchmakers and are sometimes commissioned by dealers and this is why we have A, B & C reps?

2) The daylight maker is a professional with a geniune article to copy from but they just decided to introduce a defect on purpose?

[slickdick]

Factory large or small, only 2 types of stock:

Parts

Watches

Every watch equals same amount of usd for factory. If watch has all its parts it is a sellable item, regardless of the possibility one or more parts is faulty or wrongly assembled.

With factory i talk about the factory which assemble the parts, not the manufacturer of the parts.

[rolli]

not A,B,C reps.

when a maker construct a watch, they give to other single part and case manufacturer the order, based on tech drawings or based with the single part or and case to make the tech drawings

to manufacture the parts. sometimes one manufacturer or several manufacturer.

the maker build everything together, but when some parts like crown-guard and lever are not perfect, they use it for B or C-Stock and pricewise cheaper.

hublot comes from a maker, he is watchmaker, he makes only A-Stock, that's why he is always very expensive.

but many of other brands come from the noob factory, so also most of the pams.

the daylight is a partnership project with a factory. believe me, nothing goes in a trash. everything is good for money. that is chinese mentality.

rolli

Ok, I'm not sure I understand completely, so correct me if I'm off base:

1) Some models are made by small shops, independent watchmakers and are sometimes commissioned by dealers and this is why we have A, B & C reps?

2) The daylight maker is a professional with a geniune article to copy from but they just decided to introduce a defect on purpose?

[slickdick]

... believe me, nothing goes in a trash. everything is good for money. that is chinese mentality.

Exactly, that is why 1) no parts are availleble and 2) faulty watches are being shipped out.

Factory is not going to give discount to dealer for stock abc, no way to tell difference for dealer and consumer pays everything after all anyhow.

[fishgodeep]

I see 3 possible solutions -

1. If the crown does not move enough, shorten the stem and/or change the gasket

2. If the crown does not move at all, check the construction of crown tube vs crown. Perhaps need to trim part of crown base.

3. Change the lining in CG pin hole to something harder... perhaps of nylon.

You are totally correct

The CG is perfectly made - but there is too much pressure upwards from the crown on the lever which pushes it out

I replaced the flat rubber gasket on the underside of the crown with an o-ring and replaced the lever gasket with a harder nylon insert.

This has solved the majority of the issue but still think that either the stem or the caseside crown tube are 0.1mm too long.

I don't thinkt this is a flaw in the watch as the parts are perfectly made , more a case of less than perfect attention to detail on assembly - which is to be expected on any production line.

It's all minor mods if you do it yourself or get a watchsmith to do for you , certainly not a show stopper for a watch of this overall quality

The question for me is if they charged $420 for this watch and solved the CG issue as above , what would we find to talk about !!!

Cheers

FGD

[PolonusTM]

Hmm... interesting. Is the crown spring loaded? Even it it is SL one - when there is no way to push crown deeper due to the tube blocking crown movement - no one even recognize the crown as a spring loaded one

I have spare t-crown SL, maybe I can swap crowns when I got my 236... we will see

Pawel

[nleap]

You are totally correct

The CG is perfectly made - but there is too much pressure upwards from the crown on the lever which pushes it out

I replaced the flat rubber gasket on the underside of the crown with an o-ring and replaced the lever gasket with a harder nylon insert.

This has solved the majority of the issue but still think that either the stem or the caseside crown tube are 0.1mm too long.

I don't thinkt this is a flaw in the watch as the parts are perfectly made , more a case of less than perfect attention to detail on assembly - which is to be expected on any production line.

It's all minor mods if you do it yourself or get a watchsmith to do for you , certainly not a show stopper for a watch of this overall quality

The question for me is if they charged $420 for this watch and solved the CG issue as above , what would we find to talk about !!!

Cheers

FGD

FGD, it looks like your made some modifications to your pam. Would be willing to do a quick tutorial for the members and show us what you did. I am sure a lot people will be buying this watch and will want to do the samething to reduce how much the level sticks out from the cg.

[fishgodeep]

Well I'm not much of a teacher but here we go

1- Remove CG - you'll see it does fit together perfectly but pressure from the crown side can press the lever out

2- Remove the caseback and release the crown stem - assuming of course you know how to do that - I'm not about to try and explain how you do that as I wouldn't recommend it as a first time thing to do ( I only just have the confidence to remove my own auto stems after 4 years!)

You'll see the crown is spring loaded.

3- I swapped the flat gasket beneath my crown with an O-ring type - a bit thinner and will compress more than the flat ones.

Compromising WR wasn't a consideration for me as I would never wear a bracelet PAM or Chrono in water

4- I then re-inserted the stem and re-assembled with the CG - it closed less tightly than before but still stuck out a little bit.

5- I then removed the CG again , pushed the lever pin out and disassembled - removing the rubber CG lever liner.

6- Using some elec cable/flex casing - the harder stiffer type , I cut to size and inserted into the lever hole

7- I then built up a layer of epoxy inside the cable insert , so that there was a tiny hole still but thickening and hardening the interior lining.

8- Let the epoxy dry for an hour or so

9- Then re-assembled the CG - a bit tougher to insert the pin this time as expected and popped back on the watch

This is the end result - moving from 70% to 95% ...still a little work to do to perfect but far happier

Hope this is of some help

FGD

[ubiquitous]

Looking good, FGD! Looking REALLY good!

[PolonusTM]

Well I'm not much of a teacher but here we go (...)

This is the end result - moving from 70% to 95% ...still a little work to do to perfect but far happier

Hope this is of some help

Well, another additional idea:

- we can see that the crown protection is NOT flush to the case

- we can remove crown protection and COMPRESS it a little bit (as shown by arrows on the photo)

- this way we can make it more flush and move the lever a bit to the outside

You can make the lever flush this time, I suppose

Pawel

Edited September 24, 2010 by PolonusTM

[fishgodeep]

Yes Polonus TM ....I see what you are saying

0.1mm closer to the case at the edge will mean slightly more distance at the lever point of contact

What do you suggest to "compress" or squeeze the CG ?

Cheers

FGD

[PolonusTM]

..to squeeze gently using vise while protecting corners of crown protector (maybe some soft wood will protect it during operation?)

PolonusTM

[Martyd3]

I really don't think you will have much luck bending the CG. Maybe I am missing something, but wouldn't it be easier to shorten the length of the crown tube (and possibly the stem), so the crown sat slightly closer to the case? This would take the pressure off the CG lever, which would keep it from being pushed out.