Done tons of research...now asking for some Daytona advice...

[Reginald37]

I've read dozens of threads and dozens of sales posts going back years. Focusing on a 6263. I even bought the big "Vintage Rolex Sports Models" and the "Daytona Pocket Guide" from Amazon. It doesn't take long to triangulate on the names DK, Yuki and Spinmaster in the Daytona world. You see an occasionel Phong case etc...but these 3 seem to come up the most in discusions and sales of really good vintage Daytonas.

DK describes his:

Paul Newman A7750 Powered 6263 Watch.

This watch is made with the same outer dimensions as our V72 based watches. Assymetrical screw-in pushers, triplock crown, tropic 19 replacement crystal, black bezel, stamped inside case back, Correct engravings between lugs, 571 endlinks, and 78350 hollow mid-link band with correctly stamped clasp. The watch is powered by an asian 7750 manual wind movement running at 21,600 BPH, the same as the original V72/Cal 727. Black or white color can be chosen instead of Paul Newman.

Yuki decribes his:

Rolex Daytona 6263 black dial watch, Carry with "Asia 727" hand winding chronograph Movement. Working in Order and Running accurate. Not guarantee water resistant for this case. Please note: The chronograph function record 30 minutes only. (3 and 9 o'clock chrono sub dial can work only) 6'clock chrono sub dial for style and appearance only, didn't have any function. Case diameter is 38mm without crown, Lug to Lug 19mm. With stainless steel bracelet.

Typical SPinmaster discription:

Spinmaster description on this beauty:

1. 21,600bph 7750 ----> 7760 movement overhauled by me

2. Correct asymmetrical pushers

3. reducing and reversing wheel removed (winding feels like manual movement now)

4. Hacking lever removed (gen 6263 does not hack)

5. better engraved caseback (used only in vj72 model) instead of usual laser etched caseback

6. correct numbering on bezel

7. all o-rings properly greased

8. endlinks nicely trimed, no more bend springbar

9. waterproof tested to 3 atm

10. movement properly regulated

So it appears to me that DK and Yuki start with a manual wind movement, that doesn't operate the 6 o'clock subdial, although DK doesn't say that, to avoid the same problem that Spinmaster is fixing when he overhauls the movement, all those extra gears that tend to fail. I'm a little thrown off by the fact that DK still uses a A7750, which seems to be the one that has the problems.

So my question is - do you just wait for a Spinmaster to come up. I haven't seen where you can just order one. Or given the choice of a Yuki vs. DK, is there a real difference in the movements. They both look great and obviously all 3 have great reputations.

Also would be great to know if anyone has had them mod their watches before delivery, including gen parts. I'm certainly willing to spend a grand, or even a little more, on something really great/franken. Or am I missing a better alternative all together?

advice appreciated

[deja]

PM spin.. i have two on order from him, a 6263 and a 6265

[Reginald37]

PM spin.. i have two on order from him, a 6263 and a 6265

Done...would still like some insight into the movements etc.... equally interested in the 6265 as well.

[lhooq]

Yuki sells a very good (and expensive) 6263 case, but his pre-built 6263 is the same piece sold by other dealers for a much lower price. Unfortunately, my work has firewalled Yukiwatch.com, but if I remember correctly, the movement is a Sea-Gull ST19. I've never heard of it being referred to as an "Asia 727", which is about as accurate as calling it a "Lemania clone". So you get a reliable movement, limited functionality, incorrect subdial spacing, and generally more visual inaccuracies than on the Daytonas sold by DW (not DK).

Let me be very clear: Yuki sells a 6263 case for (I think) around $1000. It is meant to take a Valjoux 72 movement and is NOT the same case that is used in his pre-built, ~$300 Daytona.

A few more clarifications:

It doesn't take long to triangulate on the names DK' date=' Yuki and Spinmaster in the Daytona world. You see an occasionel Phong case etc...but these 3 seem to come up the most in discusions and sales of really good vintage Daytonas.[/quote']

Based on the experiences of guys on the rep forums, the best 6263 case comes from Jewelryandwatch aka Phong. Unfortunately, it's about ~$1500. Yuki's is next, while DW's is last. NDTrading also sells a case for ~$1000, but I don't know how it stacks up. Mind you, the visual differences between the best and the worst can be very subtle. On the other hand, I've heard of some people having big problems fitting a V72 movement into DW's case.

DW sells 5 different types of Paul Newman dials: Black, 2-color white, 3-color white, red-on-black, red-on-white. Standard dials are either silver or black, but DW also sells variants of these i.e. with or without the red "Daytona" at 6, sigma dials, &c.

[gplracer]

LHOOQ knows what he is talking about. I too had problems with my 6265. It turned out the click spring was not properly set up and and failed. I then had the master do a full service. If you get it from Spin it at least you do not have to go through the hassle of getting the darn thing serviced and working properly which can be a pain since the watch has a an Asian 7750 and not all 7750 parts will work on it. On the other hand you can save some money by buying directly from DW and then having a watchmaker, who is willing to work on an A7750 service it. Then you can buy a better crystal, band etc. The choice is not clear cut but it is yours to make. I went through a lot of headaches and time to get mine right but now it is a very reliable watch. I would love to have a V72 version but the amount of frustration and money to get it right might cause me to lose my mind. If I really wanted a V72 version I would find one that is for sale.

[Dizzy]

Yeah the Yuki Daytona is basicly a Cartel Daytona I believe and not even comparable to the DW. Most all the complete watches that Yuki offers for $300 or so are just regular reps same as Josh and Andrew would have. DW Daytonas are a step up as they will take gen parts and movements. Spinmasters Daytonas are simply modded DW Daytonas.

You need to deceide if you are going 7750 or V72. Different cases and casebacks are needed.

[Rolexaddict]

V72, V727 and more advanced V7750 series have alle the same dimension specs. If I rmember well its something like 13 lines and arround 6,5mm thickness

All these movements fits in all kind of cases. When DW or Yuki talk about Daytona cases made only to match with V72, its not vrong but a vrong description.

Rolex drilled 2 more holes at different location in the V72 movement plate to fix it into the case. R.C.Spielmann company who made cosmograph cases for Rolex machined cases according these new fixation features. But a V7750 can be fitted into a Rolex specs case.

The difference between the full chrono fonctions and the faux subdial at 6 :

The subdial spacing is slightly different between V72 series and V7750 series. In these reps powered by Seagull, the Seagull movement has the same 9 and 3 subdial spacing like the V72/727 but no hours counter fonction. It result the faux subdial with a faux hand at 6.

The full chrono fonctions reps using a 7750 have a slightly different subdial spacing -arround half a millimeter- Gen dials or aftermarket dials with exact Rolex specs don't fit. Dials made for Daytona reps powered with the 7750 are specific.

[lhooq]

In these reps powered by Seagull, the Seagull movement has the same 9 and 3 subdial spacing like the V72/727 but no hours counter fonction.

RA: I have always wondered about the subdial spacing of the ST19 versus the spacing of the V72. But I assume the Sea-Gull movement will not fit inside DW's case?

[Reginald37]

I'm ordering a standard black dial (not Newman)6265 from the Spinmaster. Going with at least the gen crystal/tube/crown mod, and maybe a wee more franken if he has anything laying around.

I like the PN dial, but I think to rock it like it's gen the standard is a little more plausible. Given my age I could have easily bought the one I'm getting when it is was 10 years old for a grand in 81'. I did in fact own an Explorer back then that I bought for $1200 if I remember right. Given my job now, I could plausible buy a gen one tomorrow if I single. The PN is another thing. All that said, the chances of running into someone in the wild, even in a an AD, that would have seen enough of these to make any kind of reasonble guess that it's rep, with the gen parts on it mine will have, I don't know, one in a million.

Of course pictures of this, and my incoming Abyss as well, to follow......

Thanks for those deatailed answers. Still lot's to learn, but feeling very solid the Spinmaster choice as a complete non tinkerer myself.

[automatico]

"In these reps powered by Seagull, the Seagull movement has the same 9 and 3 subdial spacing like the V72/727 but no hours counter function. It result the faux subdial with a faux hand at 6."

I believe the Seagull ST19 is still a good choice in these projects.

Why?

1...They are relatively cheap and easy to find (buy an Alpha for parts).

2...They were designed as manual wind from scratch...no auto parts to remove or fragile manual wind parts to worry with.

3...They are fairly rugged for a chronograph.

4...They have proper subdial spacing.

5...As for no hour counter at 6, I doubt many people time events over an hour anyway. If they do, all they need to remember is what time they started the count.

6...Quite a few Val 72 no longer count hours anyway as they have broken or worn out over the years and the mainspring barrel etc that drives the hour register are hard to find.

7...No one will know it is a Seagull because you can't see through the caseback.

8...Know-it-all 'Rep Busters' might watch a chronograph run a few minutes to see if the minute counter flips but very few will hang around for an hour.

[Reginald37]

Another qusetion - in the book "Vintage Rolex Sports Models" for the 6265 bracelet it says: "19mm rivited bracelet".

In order to be correct does a 6265 need to have a rivited bracelet? Where does one get a nice/best rep one?

thanks again

[Rolexaddict]

RA: I have always wondered about the subdial spacing of the ST19 versus the spacing of the V72. But I assume the Sea-Gull movement will not fit inside DW's case?

Seagull is not like Valjoux. All kind of Valjoux will fit inside all kind of Rolex 6263-65, 6239-41 cases. Cases made to fit Seagull are not the same production line like cases from Yuki, DW or Phong,

Cases allowing to match with Seagull don't have exactly Rolex specs

[Dizzy]

Another qusetion - in the book "Vintage Rolex Sports Models" for the 6265 bracelet it says: "19mm rivited bracelet".

In order to be correct does a 6265 need to have a rivited bracelet? Where does one get a nice/best rep one?

thanks again

I got a gen 19mm stretch rivet bracelet on ebay for about $150. You cant beat that. There is no good replica of a 19mm folded or rivet bracelet. Prices have gone up lately and they are closer to $400 now. Still worth it IMHO. Nothing compares to a gen Rolex bracelet.

Seagull is not like Valjoux. All kind of Valjoux will fit inside all kind of Rolex 6263-65, 6239-41 cases. Cases made to fit Seagull are not the same production line like cases from Yuki, DW or Phong,

Cases allowing to match with Seagull don't have exactly Rolex specs

DW offers a new V23 copy movement or at least I know its something in the works. You can email him and ask. I know its about a $300 option so Im not sure what movement it actually is but he says its fully properly serviced and reliable. That will give you the correct subdial spacing. The 7750 dial spacing is too far off for my liking and I wouldnt be happy with it. I dont know much about the st-19 but it sounds like an interesting solution to the correct look.You can get a st-19 based daytona looking chronograph on ebay for about $160. You can take the movement and hands and probably the endlinks off it! Sounds like a good deal to me.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Dizzy

[lhooq]

I got a gen 19mm stretch rivet bracelet on ebay for about $150. You cant beat that.

I got my 7205 for $100!

(OK, so the endlinks had been filed down to an 18mm width, and it cost me $70 to get a pair of 357s that I could slap onto the ends... but still!)

None are currently available from our usual sources, but I'm sure that rep 7835s have been made in the past. There are little details that bother me about certain examples, and you have to wonder about all the Hong Kong-based listings for "r01ex" or "r o l e x" bracelets.

citizenfox: Since the 6265s were available from the early 70s to the late 80s, the 7835 folded and 78350 solid would be more appropriate. However, C&I produced riveted bracelets well into the 70s, so a screw-pusher Daytona on a riveted bracelet is not beyond the pale. As with all things Rolex, the correct answer is, "all and sundry."

RA, automatico: Thanks for confirming the Sea-Gull sub spacing.

[2Rol]

Look at the DW Daytonas 6239 offer for RWG on his site. I received mine in perfect order and it is top for the price (with manual 7750)

[Jovanotti]

Anyone try ST19?


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DW offers a new V23 copy movement or at least I know its something in the works. You can email him and ask. I know its about a $300 option so Im not sure what movement it actually is but he says its fully properly serviced and reliable. That will give you the correct subdial spacing. The 7750 dial spacing is too far off for my liking and I wouldnt be happy with it. I dont know much about the st-19 but it sounds like an interesting solution to the correct look.You can get a st-19 based daytona looking chronograph on ebay for about $160. You can take the movement and hands and probably the endlinks off it! Sounds like a good deal to me.

Ah my apologies this references ST19


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