cib0rgman Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 (edited) Does anybody know what is the number of this Item to order from Neil, I have and old ETA sub that I do not use anymore I can swap movement, and have a better SUB Edited October 12, 2006 by cib0rgman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 (edited) Thanks for the review, BT. You always spend alot of time and thought on your writeups. I will, however, have to disagree with your comments on rehaut depth. The rehaut on this watch is very thin compared to the gen. I don't know if the actual difference is 0.1mm, and I doubt that it is, but it is very noticeable. You poke fun at the sub nerds for obsessing over rehaut, but it is in fact the most eye catching detail, because it is really the one detail you can spot on the wrist from a distance. I see fakes ALL the time out in public and use the rehaut to spot them. If I see a watch with deep rehaut, I generally assume it to be real because there are SO many shallow fakes out there and because it's extremely difficult or impossible to see other details without grabbing the watch off the person's wrist!! Ahh... I'm well aware that the rehaut is not as deep. There's a difference... just as I wrote. But "very thin" compared to the gen? I don't agree... I think the bigger difference is the crystal... which sits too low on almost all Sub reps... which makes the case depth appear lower. I just wrote what I see... don't take my word as a gospel. I personally don't find it much of an issue. In my eyes the TW case is just as much "too deep" as this is "too shallow". PS: I made fun of the "Sub trekkies" tongue-in-cheek... and didn't count myself out of the ship. Someone finds a flaw and then the whole community obsesses over it for the next 24 months... until it goes a bit overboard. You think 0.1mm isn't enough? How much (in millimeters) you'd think the actual difference is (considering the depth is 2mm on the genuine)? See for yourself: Noobmariner: Gen 1: Gen 2: Gen 3: Gen 4: Noobmariner and gen: Edited October 12, 2006 by By-Tor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 You think 0.1mm isn't enough? How much (in millimeters) you'd think the actual difference is (considering the depth is 2mm on the genuine)? See for yourself: I don't know what the difference in fractions of a mm is, but I strongly suspect it is greater than 0.1mm. Honestly though, I don't think the actual measurement matters because regardless of the difference on paper, the visual difference side by side with a gen is significant and immediately noticeable. It is immediately noticeable on the wrist from a distance, too. Trust me. I own the CN sub from both TTK and TWG and have put them next to a gen. Further, pictures (unless the rep and the gen are in the same shot) can be very deceiving because of variances in shooting angles, crop factors, lighting, shadows, etc. This is not a cop out. This is a fact. I've been deceived by photos of rehaut more than once. This is not a knock on the watch or of your review, it is simply an observation of what I've personally seen firsthand. FYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenWaaaaah Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 How can I get one? His PM box is full and I don't know what number to order with?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 (edited) @chieftang: I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I disagree with you... and I don't find it a big issue. Not as big deal as bad dial, wrong cg's... or wrong cyclops/datewheel placement... flaws that are the usual tell-tales. My father has a genuine no-date Sub but he's living in another country. I'd love to make a side-by-side comparison tho'. Say what you want but I find the "Noobmariner" case depth and inner "ring smoothness" very reasonable... not perfect but much better than on the old CN Subs. It's mainly the crystal height and placement that makes the difference... or then I'm blind as a bat. The non-genuine pearl is much, much bigger flaw in my eyes. PS: If you put this rep next to the gen you sure took some pictures, right? Would be interesting to see that "huge" difference... if the reference pics that I posted were all "deceiving". One more (deceiving) shot: Edited October 12, 2006 by By-Tor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elwopo Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 It does seem that this review has sparked a great deal of interest....and potential business....for a certain dealer. Can't even buy advertising like that..... . As with any purchase....buyers should consider every aspect. If you purchase one of these and are unhappy with it for any reason....there is a chance....only a chance mind you....that communication attempts may yield you nothing. If this far fetched event does occur.....just know ahead of time that your $100 will buy you one dandy paperweight. It's OK to gamble....as long as you remember you are gambling.....and don't spend the grocery money. I'll be going back to work now.....as my papers are underneath a beautiful 074 paperweight..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 @chieftang: I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I disagree with you... and I don't find it a big issue. Not as big deal as bad dial, wrong cg's... or wrong cyclops/datewheel placement... flaws that are the usual tell-tales. Then we'll agree to disagree. Because for me the rehaut is the most important detail. Dials can be swapped. CGs can be reshaped. Date magnifiers can be repositioned. But rehaut can not be made deeper. And I can spot the thin rehaut of the CN sub from a distance. It just won't do (for me). My father has a genuine no-date Sub but he's living in another country. I'd love to make a side-by-side comparison. The no-dates are different. Say what you want but I find the "Noobmariner" case depth and inner "ring smoothness" very reasonable... not perfect but much better than on the old CN Subs. Or then I'm blind as a bat. The non-genuine pearl is much, much bigger flaw in my eyes. I can't disagree with that. But, then, I prefer to make comparisons to the gen rather than to the old CN subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 The no-dates are different. You mean the no-dates have different case depth? This is news to me. Is it a known fact... or just a guess? If there is a difference I definitely need glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 You mean the no-dates have different case depth? This is news to me. Is it a known fact... or just a guess? If there is a difference I definitely need glasses. Notice the no-dates still have hollow end links. It's a different case, not just a different dial. As to rehaut depth, someone like Ubi might know definitively, but I *think* they might be shallower. I was just at an AD earlier this week and glanced at a no-date sub. It appeared to me to have a shallower rehaut, but I wasn't looking closely. I could easily stop in tonight after work and compare it side by side to a date model, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 You're correct... I know it has different case. The cg's are straight and have no curvature at all (as the picture tells). I shaped my no-date Tudor cg's based on the 5513 and the current no-date model. Straight'n'spiky. Once again... I'm not saying you're wrong. I just doubt there's any difference in case depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Once again... I'm not saying you're wrong. I just doubt there's any difference in case depth. You could be right. I'll put the question to rest this evening at an AD and then we'll know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 If you purchase one of these and are unhappy with it for any reason....there is a chance....only a chance mind you....that communication attempts may yield you nothing. If this far fetched event does occur.....just know ahead of time that your $100 will buy you one dandy paperweight. Better value than a tank of gas and a Big Mac Happy meal.......at $100 it's disposable....! As for the debate about rehauts....etc....nobody I know.....can spot a fake of this quality fom a rep at a distance....put them side by side...and yes...you will notice the difference if you are familiar with subs......but to the casual owner / buyer.....no.....I have several friends here who own the genuine article.....they wouldn't know rehaut if it bit their ankle and introduced itself.......IT'S A $100 BUXX WATCH.....that keeps good time and has the magical 5 letters on the dial....nothing more than that....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 IT'S A $100 BUXX WATCH.....that keeps good time and has the magical 5 letters on the dial....nothing more than that....! That's an excellent way of looking at it in my opinion!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 (edited) As for the debate about rehauts....etc....nobody I know.....can spot a fake of this quality fom a rep at a distance....put them side by side...and yes...you will notice the difference if you are familiar with subs......but to the casual owner / buyer.....no.....I have several friends here who own the genuine article.....they wouldn't know rehaut if it bit their ankle and introduced itself.......IT'S A $100 BUXX WATCH.....that keeps good time and has the magical 5 letters on the dial....nothing more than that....! That was my original point, exactly... I thought that was easy to read "between the lines" from the review. However... I made jokes about the "Trekkie bastards" obsessing over the miniscule details but on the other hand it's also part of the fun and enjoyement... as long as people don't take it too seriously. "It's a 100$ watch that just keeps time and has the letters on the dial"... that's true as well... but it's quite fascinating at that... it has a $4900 price difference to the "other one" that keeps time and has the same magical letters. I just don't understand people (including my dad) who have spent so much money on genuine Rolexes... especially now after the humongous price increase. Rolex is probably the worst value-for-money watch brand in the world... and many dumbasses buy them because they're desperate to prove they're rich and successful. Look at it anyway you want... at $100 I find this watch utterly HILARIOUS... and a nice buy even though you're not a Rolex fan. Like Bill says: "just to piss off Uncle Rollie". Like I said the Chinese are takin' over. Edited October 12, 2006 by By-Tor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elwopo Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Better value than a tank of gas and a Big Mac Happy meal.......at $100 it's disposable....! Depends on your definition of "value". At least the aforementioned items give you something for your cash... IT'S A $100 BUXX WATCH.....that keeps good time and has the magical 5 letters on the dial....nothing more than that....! Funny.....I didn't see this pearl of wisdom in the "10 reasons to buy" list. Perhaps we have number 11..... caveat emptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 I just don't understand people (including my dad) who have spent so much money on genuine Rolexes... especially now after the humongous price increase. Rolex is probably the worst value-for-money watch brand in the world... and many dumbasses buy them because they're desperate to prove they're rich and successful. It sounds to me like you DO understand people who buy Rolexes.... They (most of them anyhow) do it for one and only one reason: because it says Rolex on it. The whole world knows the name Rolex as well as they know the name Mercedes. So owning one says "I have money" to the world. It's the same reason Rolex reps are so popular. And quite frankly I feel rather silly wearing a Rolex. I own a gen Sea Dweller that I use for its intended purpose (diving under water), but rarely wear it around elsewhere. I don't wear a Rolex replica either, although Ubi's bad influence has me collecting parts for a franken watch. Somehow this has renewed my interest in Rolex, mainly for the fun factor I suppose. Afterall, with PAMs you certainly can't find genuine parts so readily to build frankenwatches. Anyhow, so far I've collected a few genuine 16610 bezel inserts, a gen crown and tube, gen tudor sub hands, one TWG CN sub (which I've never worn), one broken TTK CN sub (which I've never worn). The franken will pretty much follow the 16610 Ubi recipe when all is said and done, but the right case still eludes me. I'd prefer a pre-F serial with lugholes but the right one is hard to come by. It's all about the rehaut my friend!! And even after I go through the expense of building this franken, how often will I wear it? I honestly do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 @chieftang: I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I disagree with you... and I don't find it a big issue. Not as big deal as bad dial, wrong cg's... or wrong cyclops/datewheel placement... flaws that are the usual tell-tales. My father has a genuine no-date Sub but he's living in another country. I'd love to make a side-by-side comparison tho'. Say what you want but I find the "Noobmariner" case depth and inner "ring smoothness" very reasonable... not perfect but much better than on the old CN Subs. It's mainly the crystal height and placement that makes the difference... or then I'm blind as a bat. The non-genuine pearl is much, much bigger flaw in my eyes. PS: If you put this rep next to the gen you sure took some pictures, right? Would be interesting to see that "huge" difference... if the reference pics that I posted were all "deceiving". One more (deceiving) shot: Ever the same discussion about the Rehautdepth... I agree By-Tor the Crystal height and placemt makes the difference... On a Gen one you have a thick saphire on the Noobmariner, the glass is thick ,but it has a gap on it Look here.. A Gen or on a TW, MBW Sub the glass is one thick piece.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 (edited) It sounds to me like you DO understand people who buy Rolexes.... They (most of them anyhow) do it for one and only one reason: because it says Rolex on it. I love the design of the Submariner... the case, lines and appearance... but I bought a Tudor because I don't like wearing a Rolex (gen or rep). This one was a gift, remember? I understand why people buy Rolex reps... no problem with that. I even understand the WIS who love the brand and feel pride of their genuine Rolexes for the right reasons. Perhaps I used a wrong terminolgy... you're right... I DO understand the rednecks who buy the bling models just to "show off"... but I don't have to like them. I dunno what category my father falls... probably a bit to both. I love the old man though. I love this quote by Ziggy: Remember the fellow who was so proud that he was able to kiss the local AD's ass and get moved up to #2 on the list for a Daytona, and how everyone was cheering him on and offering suggestions to kiss more ass "Bring a bottle of wine to the Manager for his wife..." "Drop by once a week and chat the manager up..." ad nauseum...Bleach! And that Mercedes comparison isn't valid. Mercedes E is about 25% - 30% more expensive than the "next class" (Volvo S80)... and it's light years better car to drive (handling, quality feel). It's not just "branding", there IS a difference. The price difference is even smaller when you put it next to the nearest competition (Audi, BMW, Jaguar). But Rolex has about %200 (or even %300) price difference to its nearest competition which in my eyes is Omega and perhaps Breitling. THAT is poor value for money, whether "you're fulfilling your dream and buying the image" or not. In the end of the day it's just a watch. Rolex has also tarnished its reputation (in my eyes) with the disgusting bling models they're selling to the superrich. Most of their new bling models are best suited for utterly TASTELESS 60+ transvestites (saw the pics from the Basel show... all new models were like this). Of course you can ruin anything if you have too much money and no class... even Mercedes. But at least Mercedes isn't doing this on the factory production line. @Tribal: Thanks for the clarification. Edited October 12, 2006 by By-Tor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 You know elwopo.....you obviously have a beef......if you don't like the watch send the [censored]ing thing back and I'll give you your money back......I hate whiny whinging moaning [censored]ers.....and that's waht you are.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 (edited) You know elwopo.....you obviously have a beef......if you don't like the watch send the [censored]ing thing back and I'll give you your money back......I hate whiny whinging moaning [censored]ers.....and that's waht you are.! Man for 100 bucks you can't get a better Sub... This one has the best Dial i have seen... Great case,great bracelet... Looks damm near to gen one... There are a lot of much expensiver Subs out there and they are not better... I have This one from TTK and a MBW 1B with Eta and they are the same watch (not the movement).. I like it a lot... RG Tribal Edited October 12, 2006 by Tribal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Neil- I thought all the 21j Asian Subs originated from the same factory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Neil- I thought all the 21j Asian Subs originated from the same factory? I Think they all the same.. PT,Trustys,Neils,Eddies and MBW 1B Sub.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 Well today I just happen to be wearing my TTK sub. And I just looked at the bracelet and I sure have scratched the heck out of it already- I've had it one month and it took almost a month to get here. It's a beater for me as you can tell by the scratches. Someday I'll work on the cg's, but that may be about it. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy with it, and don't feel the need to put in an original crown and case tube or a genuine bezel- it's just a great beater for around $100. But I may order a few of these for my nephews for xmas- what a great gift for a little over $100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 And that Mercedes comparison isn't valid. Mercedes E is about 25% - 30% more expensive than the "next class" (Volvo S80)... and it's light years better car to drive (handling, quality feel). It's not just "branding", there IS a difference. I'm thinking more along the lines of a C class Mercedes. Mercedes has really sold out recently with these C class offerings. C stands for "Cheap" and it's there for all the people (and there are LOTs of them) who want to drive around with a Mercedes emblem on the back of their car. It's nothing special in terms of performance or handling (like a Honda), but it does say Mercedes on it, and it's not SO far out of reach yet costs at least twice that of a comparable Honda. Around me the C class is plentiful, the E class is spotty, and the S class is rare on the roads. Oh, and yes, Mercedes does make some amazing cars, but they don't offer a legit comparison as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbchubb Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 It sounds to me like you DO understand people who buy Rolexes.... They (most of them anyhow) do it for one and only one reason: because it says Rolex on it. The whole world knows the name Rolex as well as they know the name Mercedes. So owning one says "I have money" to the world. It's the same reason Rolex reps are so popular. And quite frankly I feel rather silly wearing a Rolex. I own a gen Sea Dweller that I use for its intended purpose (diving under water), but rarely wear it around elsewhere. ...well...I disagree - there are only very few watches that have ejoyed such a long life as some of the Rolex models. The Submariner and the very similar Seadweller - especially - are timeless designs. They are rugged yet good looking watches which you can wear with anything from shorts to a tux. That is also why - after all this time - they basically still look the same. The real great designs are timeless and only need light updating every once in a while. It's a very good product - period. If people use a watch (rep or gen) or a car to pretend they are what they consider to be a more "important" person....then it's certainly not the product's fault... Rolex pricing :yucky: is a totally different issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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