Q&A: Why do our A7750s need a service?

[Rolexman]

I recently got a rep with an Asian 7750 on the bench from a friend of mine. He wore it about a month and than the first signs showed.

First irregular power reserve, then it started to run extremely fast and finally last week it stopped completely.....So, as a good friend is supposed to I gave it a look. On the outside there was nothing strange to see. No screws caught up in the balance wheel, gear train free, pivots ok, reversing wheel ok.

So I promised him I would give it a full service. I started disassembling it last weekend. Take a look of what I found, and remember this watch was only 2 months old!

A lot of black gunk where the reduction wheel goes. That's no good sign...

Removed the second and following bridges and found oil everywhere, literally everywhere. The whole movement was contaminated. No wonder it stopped! It was as if the guy at the factory just sprayed in some silicone spray...

And than a very crucial part which needs oil to reduce friction (main spring arbor), NO OIL....

The main spring itself looked like an aquarium.. everything floating in oil.

And that boys and girls is why many of our Asian 7750's need a service.... bad or improper oiling.

All parts are now nice and clean after a good ultra sonic clean and this evening everything will be oiled and assembled. After regulation this puppy will run like a champ and IMO there is absolutely no reason to buy a Swiss version. After a good service it will perform and last as an ETA would.

Hope you liked the pics

Mark.

[mbjoer]

Great pics, interesting message. It certainly demonstrates the shoddy assembly of some of these movements. Many tanks.

I have not had quite the problems others have had here, and I am not one for opening my own watches and fix anything myself. To me a service is a very expensive undertaking.

The question then remains, should one do it instantly or wait?

From my experiences I think I would have wasted a lot of money if I had done it up front to all my 7750es. Most have been OK without one.

And am I right to say that this movement has not been damaged by running to this point, and thus could wait to be serviced until the symptoms became too servere?

[pabler]

I gave my watchsmith my A7753 wich was running Ok, but read The Zigmeister's review with bits of lettuce and rubish everywhere and decided to give it a full service. The conclusion was that, as you say, oil everywhere but little regulation, main spring not alligned and lots of rubish on all the movement.

But probably this one would have lasted more than two months (in fact it was a second hand buy with like 8 months of wear).

[FxrAndy]

It makes me wonder how that ever ran

[Watchmeister]

It all makes sense. Spray the whole movement in one shot and presto - it is serviced. You will never know whether the right part of the movement got proper lubrication (it didn't) so each one is potentially a ticking time bomb. But the operative word is "potentially". Everyone has to make their own decision whether to service or wait until it breaks down. And to this day I have had some movements last an entire service interval (3-5 years) and other ones crap out within months. In any case thanks for the update. Sounds like overall some of the movement designs have gotten better but the assembly hasn't.

[RWG Technical]

Looks very familiar... "\

Please make sure you clean off as much as you can with watch tissue paper, and the remainder with Rodico, if you put it in your cleaning solution the silicone or whatever it is will contaminate and ruin your cleaning solution and you'll have to replace it.

[Rolexman]

The question then remains, should one do it instantly or wait?

To each his own. Do you drive your car without service until it breaks down? Or do you want piece of mind you are driving in a reliable and dependable car….

It all makes sense. Spray the whole movement in one shot and presto - it is serviced.

Unfortunately this is true. A lot of local ‘watchmakers’ use this technique too and will quote “full service for a 7750 is only $50”. Take into account that a proper service of a 7750 takes a trained watchmaker between 6~8 hours, you know you will never in a million years be getting the same service. You get what you pay for… a shot of oil

Looks very familiar... "\

Please make sure you clean off as much as you can with watch tissue paper, and the remainder with Rodico, if you put it in your cleaning solution the silicone or whatever it is will contaminate and ruin your cleaning solution and you'll have to replace it.

Thanks for the heads up. I did and gave it a bath in some white-spirit before putting it in the USC. These sort of movement cost a lot of time to service!

[mbjoer]

To each his own. Do you drive your car without service until it breaks down? Or do you want piece of mind you are driving in a reliable and dependable car….

I guess I was hoping for a more informed answer.

The question has some aspects, such as if you wait, how likely is it that the movement will need funadamental repair, and how likely is it that a simple service will solve the problem?

What experiences are there as to the time it might take before a movement breaks down?

And no, don't tell me that they are all different. I know that. But the timeframes others have experienced would be useful knowledge, so that I can work out what my chances are.

It would be good to have more information about experiences with this, as I currently only go on a gut-feeling. I guess a watchmaker might have a deeper insight than most of us (hint The Zigmeister.... .

[Rolexman]

I guess I was hoping for a more informed answer. I guess a watchmaker might have a deeper insight than most of us (hint The Zigmeister.... .

Well, I know nothing about movements so maybe Rob cares to answer your question? I certainly don't!

[frankt]

A simple answer: If you MUST have a working chrono, but quartz or Seagull HW ST-19's....I learned my lesson early in my rep collecting days with a really nice LOOKING 212...It had a low beat POS A7750, which NEVER ran worth a $hit!!

Conversely, I have owned dozens of ST-19's, and have no problems with them...

Fortunately, I despise everything Hublot, so I've never even been tempted to get "banged"..

[rek001]

My humble thought, if you acquire an a7750 driven chronograph and you really love its looks, it's a keeper, then get it a full service by someone who truly knows a 7750 movements, like The Zigmeister (and there aren't many smiths who will work on them).

Then you can confidently use the chrono functions, just like the gen, until your next service in about 5 years or so.

[Rolexman]

A simple answer: If you MUST have a working chrono, but quartz or Seagull HW ST-19's....I learned my lesson early in my rep collecting days with a really nice LOOKING 212...It had a low beat POS A7750, which NEVER ran worth a $hit!!

Conversely, I have owned dozens of ST-19's, and have no problems with them...

Fortunately, I despise everything Hublot, so I've never even been tempted to get "banged"..

One can tell you never owned a proper regulated and serviced A7750 watch. ST-19s aren't as sensitive for regulation issues. Therefor they are less likely to have problems. The ST-19 is a bullet proof movement but also misses some important functions. Like comparing the 6497 to a 28xx series. They're totally different.

[seafoam]

Thanks for sharing this info Rolexman. Very interesting and informative.

[frankt]

One can tell you never owned a proper regulated and serviced A7750 watch. ST-19s aren't as sensitive for regulation issues. Therefor they are less likely to have problems. The ST-19 is a bullet proof movement but also misses some important functions. Like comparing the 6497 to a 28xx series. They're totally different.

You're absolutely right!!!....There's no way I'm going to buy a rep that I need to spend enough to buy ANOTHER rep on, just to get it to run properly for a reasonable period of time!!

In my reality, I expect the watches I buy to be ready to run reliably from day one....Would you buy a new car, knowing that you had to spend a bunch of money on to run correctly right off the lot...???

IMNSFHO, this whole myth that it's OK for the dealers to sell defective merchandise is bogus!!

[adamo99]

You're absolutely right!!!....There's no way I'm going to buy a rep that I need to spend enough to buy ANOTHER rep on, just to get it to run properly for a reasonable period of time!!

In my reality, I expect the watches I buy to be ready to run reliably from day one....Would you buy a new car, knowing that you had to spend a bunch of money on to run correctly right off the lot...???

IMNSFHO, this whole myth that it's OK for the dealers to sell defective merchandise is bogus!!

Yeah, I'm not impressed with my last purchase from Andrew. Less than two months in, it's running several minutes/day slow, and by what I'm reading here, it's only a matter of time before it stops completely.

Anybody in the GTA do servicing on these reps? I went to my local watchsmith- who works on my gens- and he won't touch it.

[freddy333]

The question has some aspects, such as if you wait, how likely is it that the movement will need funadamental repair, and how likely is it that a simple service will solve the problem?

What experiences are there as to the time it might take before a movement breaks down?

And no, don't tell me that they are all different. I know that. But the timeframes others have experienced would be useful knowledge, so that I can work out what my chances are.

It would be good to have more information about experiences with this, as I currently only go on a gut-feeling. I guess a watchmaker might have a deeper insight than most of us (hint The Zigmeister.... .

It never ceases to amaze me how often this same question gets asked.

Because the movements in rep watches are used/unserviced, no one can here tell you if/when the movement was last serviced (if ever) or when & how it may break down in the future. Because of this, a good rule of thumb is that if you plan to keep the watch, have it properly overhauled when you receive it. Then, like any mechanical watch - rep or gen - you know you are good for 5-7 years, at which point the watch should be serviced again.

Having said that, alot of people take their chances & wait until the watch breaks down before having it serviced, which is fine for common/current movements, since parts are relatively cheap & plentiful. However, for older watches, where parts may be difficult to find or expensive, you would be wise to keep the watch serviced on a regular basis since parts are much less likely to break down when properly oiled.

[TeeJay]

You're absolutely right!!!....There's no way I'm going to buy a rep that I need to spend enough to buy ANOTHER rep on, just to get it to run properly for a reasonable period of time!!

In my reality, I expect the watches I buy to be ready to run reliably from day one....Would you buy a new car, knowing that you had to spend a bunch of money on to run correctly right off the lot...???

IMNSFHO, this whole myth that it's OK for the dealers to sell defective merchandise is bogus!!

It never ceases to amaze me how often this same question gets asked.

Because the movements in rep watches are used/unserviced, no one can here tell you if/when the movement was last serviced (if ever) or when & how it may break down in the future. Because of this, a good rule of thumb is that if you plan to keep the watch, have it properly overhauled when you receive it. Then, like any mechanical watch - rep or gen - you know you are good for 5-7 years, at which point the watch should be serviced again.

Having said that, alot of people take their chances & wait until the watch breaks down before having it serviced, which is fine for common/current movements, since parts are relatively cheap & plentiful. However, for older watches, where parts may be difficult to find or expensive, you would be wise to keep the watch serviced on a regular basis since parts are much less likely to break down when properly oiled.

It's rationales like these which make me hate being a Libra

[Watchmeister]

Why do our A7750's need a service? Because we are too cheap to buy the gen which comes with a warranty. If you don't care about the brand name buy a no-name or lower end branded watch with the same aesthetics and with a warranty.

Seriously, unless you take your watches apart you will not have any idea what condition your movement is in, whether it was properly serviced (unlikely), if and when it will stop running properly and when it does whether you will be able to get the spare parts. So it will always be a guess unless you go to the trouble to break down your movement when the watch is received. I do subscribe to Freddy's theory. Decide whether the watch is a keeper before investing in a service.

[mbjoer]

...unless you take your watches apart you will not have any idea what condition your movement is in, whether it was properly serviced (unlikely), if and when it will stop running properly and when it does whether you will be able to get the spare parts. So it will always be a guess unless you go to the trouble to break down your movement when the watch is received.

Agree with that.

But there are now so many of these in circulation that a watchsmith might have some statistical feel for the likelihood of failure. Within the first year, is it 100% or 10%? And what after 2 years?

It does seem to be known that about 50% of the A7750 chrono @ 6 movements fail. Surely the statistics are much better for a standard 7750????

[TeeJay]

Agree with that.

But there are now so many of these in circulation that a watchsmith might have some statistical feel for the likelihood of failure. Within the first year, is it 100% or 10%? And what after 2 years?

It does seem to be known that about 50% of the A7750 chrono @ 6 movements fail. Surely the statistics are much better for a standard 7750????

The issue with that, is there is no idea how old the watch actually is when it arrives. As with everything, people tend to think of something having a 'birthdate' of when they acquire it, when the truth is a product could have been sitting on a shelf for quite some time first. With watches in particular, this is the issue. When cars are sold on, there is paperwork, a checkable mileage etc, which tells precisely how old the car is, and how much it has been driven, making it easier to predict and schedule servicing for it. Someone could buy a watch 'brand new' from any dealer today and receive it say saturday, but that doesn't mean the watch came off the factory floor yesterday, it could've been a week, a month, a year ago, and that is why waiting the 'initial' 5 years, might mean the watch failing before that 5 year prediction

[Edit to add]

Personally, I am not in the habit of paying the cost of another watch, having a watch I have just received serviced, but, I can appreciate the wisdom behind doing so

[bluemax]

I have been thinking about the need to service my reps. If I had only one, and used it every day, then the decision to service it regularly would be pretty straightforward.

However, I have 10 or so reps that I am wearing more or less the same amount of time, so all of them are running less than 40 hours every 10 days, or about 1/5 of time. Since most are unserviced, let's assume that all of them are in "can break at any time" state. Also, let's assume that a movement in this state will break irrepairably (need to completely replace it) after 3 years of running all the time, on average.

Now, my reps are running only 1/5 of time, so they will accumulate 3 years of running and break, on average, only after 15 years in this state. And after such long time, I will probably not care about most of these watches to have them repaired. And save one or two thousand EUR in service costs over that time...

Does this logic make sense (both, umm, mechanically and financially)?

Edited July 10, 2011 by bluemax

[TeeJay]

I have been thinking about the need to service my reps. If I had only one, and used it every day, then the decision to service it regularly would be pretty straightforward.

However, I have 10 or so reps that I am wearing more or less the same amount of time, so all of them are running less than 40 hours every 10 days, or about 1/5 of time. Since most are unserviced, let's assume that all of them are in "can break at any time" state. Also, let's assume that a movement in this state will break irrepairably (need to completely replace it) after 3 years of running all the time, on average.

Now, my reps are running only 1/5 of time, so they will accumulate 3 years of running and break, on average, only after 15 years in this state. And after such long time, I will probably not care about most of these watches to have them repaired. And save one or two thousand EUR in service costs over that time...

Does this logic make sense (both, umm, mechanically and financially)?

As long as the watches are not running when they're not being worn, then yes, the logic is sound. If a watch is not running, there is no mechanical wear on the parts, but if the watches were to be kept on watch winders, then the movements would wear just as much as if they were on the wrist

[ExtraExtra]

I have been thinking about the need to service my reps. If I had only one, and used it every day, then the decision to service it regularly would be pretty straightforward.

However, I have 10 or so reps that I am wearing more or less the same amount of time, so all of them are running less than 40 hours every 10 days, or about 1/5 of time. Since most are unserviced, let's assume that all of them are in "can break at any time" state. Also, let's assume that a movement in this state will break irrepairably (need to completely replace it) after 3 years of running all the time, on average.

Now, my reps are running only 1/5 of time, so they will accumulate 3 years of running and break, on average, only after 15 years in this state. And after such long time, I will probably not care about most of these watches to have them repaired. And save one or two thousand EUR in service costs over that time...

Does this logic make sense (both, umm, mechanically and financially)?

Yes to some degree. I like chronos and the ones that I really like I take the extra step to swap in a swiss movement. Its just a bit more bucks and any doubt of it crapping out in the future goes away. If it does break, it is comforting to know that there will be part available to fix it unlike A7750.

[Rolexman]

it is comforting to know that there will be part available to fix it unlike A7750.

A lot of parts are interchangeable between Swiss and Asian 7750. Besides that imo the A7750 is as sturdy and reliable as the ETA after service. They have the same design after all...

[Jkay]

Watch oil evaporates and turns to gum/sludge over time, regardless of how little you use the watch.

And there is really no such thing as a watch movement breaking irreparably .. it's made of parts, and parts can be replaced.