korneevy Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 I got my PAM 29M with Swiss movement from Josh today and proceeded to disassemble it right away to get the movement serviced and also to check the quality of parts and assembly...thought some ppl might be interested to read this hence decided to post my impressions. This post wont have any photos as I dont have a decent camera and trying to take shots of tiny parts with a phone camera didnt produce any spectacular results so you going to have to trust my word on this one, sorry! Just a side note - I have had a dozen or so of recent PAM reps from H/N factory and also a couple of used base Gen PAMs that I opened myself to study the guts before selling them off so I have seen a few insides of both best reps and gens. Frankly, after taking this 029M apart I am stunned - if I didnt know these parts were rep parts, I would have been 100% fooled into thinking this is a gen part out. My watchmaker was also shocked then I brought it in disassembled - after inspecting the parts, he said he had never seen a fake that well-made before. Obviously, the movement is an immediate tell but with a closed CB no issue there... The quality of manufacturing and tolerances on these parts are best I've seen - everything fits together nicely, all parts are polished, brushed or decorated to gen level and where required, stamped with great level of attention. Case is very very good. Bezel has a good shape and the depth of engravings for GMT numbers appear to be identical to Gen based on the photos Ive seen. Case-back is surprisingly heavy and engravings are deep and crisp. Swiss-made engraving and swirl-like decoration on the inside of CB is a nice touch. The movement is real Swiss (confirmed by my watchmaker who will do service on it) with Chinese GMT module which appears to be well manufactured from the first glance. Movt is 100% unused (could be NOS?), surgically clean and rotor is very quiet. Even movement screws and clamps are a level above anything else I've seen - great profile, excellent machining, fits right in, leave a very confident feeling that the movement is secure. The spacer is super solid, nicely decorated, snugs very tightly around the movement... just awesome. GMT hand does not jump on the Swiss movement in 1 hr increments as I hear it does on the Asian clone (but I am unsure). Date changes at 12-00 spot on. Better date change than any of auto reps I have ever handled. Cyclop is dead-on centered and appears to be of correct magnification. Dial, hand stack, lume etc - you have seen them on other folks' photos. Under a watchmaker's lupe, dial looks pretty amazing - no sloppy lume bits, very crisp print, solid text with no missing paint, date wheel is nicely done with proper font and 100% fit to the dial text color. The seconds hand on mine is - very slightly - bent but unless under the microscope, one cant see it so I decided to leave it as it is, after checking that it does not impede on others hands...in my opinion it points to the fact that dial and hands installations are still done by hand rather than a machine...which means that it is best to check the alignment yourself as there could be variation in how well they install hands-stack and ensure hands are moving freely, not touching etc. Crystal is the best I've seen in person esthetically - even better than many mid range gens such as Oris, Hamilton or alike - fits the bezel very nicely and flat with the case, fully pressed. I was considering taking it out and replacing with proper gasket but after checking the case for water resistance (passed to 100m), decided not to bother. It has a bit of a blue-ish AR on it under certain angles. I also assume it is a double-side AR which may lead to issues in the future but in person for now looks stunning. It does create an impression that there is no glass, specially in evening lighting. CG is excellent. Nothing much to say - fits the case effortlessly, no gaps, nice fat screws and the lever as tight and as flush as the Gens I had. Polished to a very high quality, pin is super flat. Top-notch job here. Even the brown calf strap it come with is worthwhile keeping! This is normally one accessory that goes right into the garbage bin when I get one of these PAM reps delivered but this one is really, really nice. Obviously, the length is still too short (WHY do they make them so short, WHY???) but by losing one keeper, it fits ok and feels like a $100+ strap, no plastic-y shine to it, very subtle color. Good quality stitching with straight lines and embossing with OP on the underside on this one. Buckle is a regular H factory quality so not much to add... Basically, this is a super rep in every dimension of the term. I am unsure of some little details in terms of accuracy of replication but from the quality of manufacturing prospective this wins hands down over any other rep in my watchbox. WOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Wow, quite impressive! Sounds like this one is a killer Our quality watches are getting better and better every few months... Thanks again for the great review.. You took some time..Very well appreciated... MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Wonderful write up and the 29 really sounds like a wonderful time piece. Can I just ask that before you buy anymore watches you get a camera as it sounds like you have some great things to show us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomic_doug Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Thanks for the excellent review. I can add that the Panerai Service Center soft-case and silicone watch head protector that it came with was also a nice touch. When you say, the GMT hand does not "jump" on the Swiss movement what do you mean? In crown position 2, when one turns crown towards 6, the GMT hand advances albeit with obvious and audible detents at the correct hour positions Do you mean that it is possible to slave the GMT hand halfway between timezones? That's certainly possible. It's not like an ETA2893 where you turn the crown, nothing happens, and then the GMT snap-advances an hour all at once. I had been told by the same watchmaker that's a good way to cause the GMT module to start slipping. Just want to make sure neither of us (particularly me) has a damaged module. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korneevy Posted December 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 When you say, the GMT hand does not "jump" on the Swiss movement what do you mean? In crown position 2, when one turns crown towards 6, the GMT hand advances albeit with obvious and audible detents at the correct hour positions I think you are talking about the Asian Clone. The swiss movement in this watch does not advance in 1 hr intervals and is moving slowly between hr marks and can be set any way you want which is not the same as the Gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCreplica Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 How is the gen GMT? Does it jump to the next hour or does it moves slowly? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 How is the gen GMT? Does it jump to the next hour or does it moves slowly? Thanks. Korneevy just answered your question in the previous post - the gen 2893 movement advances on an hourly basis. Sent from my SGSII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 The movement is real Swiss (confirmed by my watchmaker who will do service on it) with Chinese GMT module which appears to be well manufactured from the first glance. Movt is 100% unused (could be NOS?), surgically clean and rotor is very quiet. Even movement screws and clamps are a level above anything else I've seen - great profile, excellent machining, fits right in, leave a very confident feeling that the movement is secure. The spacer is super solid, nicely decorated, snugs very tightly around the movement... just awesome. Nice review! Real Swiss with Chinese GMT module? Doesn't the lowest common denominator rule come into play here? Since there really is no such thing as a "Swiss" ETA 2836-GMT, I fear this is simply a Chinese 2836. I would love to hear the Zigmeister's comments on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thogaa Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Pictures would have been nice but great review anyways. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Without detailed pictures it's really impossible to add any comments directed at this particular movement. Going back 5 years, when the first GMT movements came out and I did my detailed review and analysis, the base movement was an ETA 2836-2, with a aftermarket GMT module. That first model was absolute garbage, the GMT modification was crap. Having seen my share of these during the past 5 years, I can say that the base movement is irrelevant, put a Ferrari engine in a Yugo - and you still have a Yugo. Overall the quality of the asian GMT modification varies, from crap to quite good quality, the quality is all over the place and it doesn;t matter when or who you bought the watch from, what you get for quality is anyone's guess... So basically nothing new, 5 years ago we had ETA based GMT movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianton Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 @ The Zigmeister Thanks for your info. One question, do you think a SWISS 2893-2 movement could be installed on the new 029M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomic_doug Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) The swap within a Panerai case is, in fact pretty simple. (Unlike a Rolex swap, which is very...non-trivial) For the Panerai 29, all you'll need is a new stem and, depending on the module used, you will most likely need a new GMT hand. (I'm pretty sure all of them use a different GMT hole-size, but I've heard of instances otherwise.) Considering the 2893 is also a thinner movement, you'll also need some extra spacers to get the stem to line up eight. DSN carries hands with the correct sizes. Edited December 29, 2011 by atomic_doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 That is a great question. I would have thought that a 7750 with an additional module would be a lot thicker than the 2893 set-up so at a minimum you would have to reposition the movement closer to the crown hole in which case either the whole movement dial set up would shift down or if you need to add space between the dial and the movement to keep the proper rehaut you would also potentially need longer pinions to keep the proper 2893 hands at the proper height or adjust the original hand tubes on the rep hands to fit on the new movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louky Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 So what is the "out of the box" quality of both movements Asian or the so calles swiss. Do both need service when you by them new? Which one to get ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfovco Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 You have an answer to that above, just read what The Zigmeister said, he is an expert. And yes, either one should be serviced. So what is the "out of the box" quality of both movements Asian or the so calles swiss. Do both need service when you by them new? Which one to get ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louky Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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