josechano Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 I was wondering and Im not an expert in the subject but Im sure some of people here had ever try to produce their own cases. I wonder if someone try it and what can of technology would be good to create your own cases, maybe CNC router? I may have access to some machines and I wonder if I bring my gen case to replicate how hard would be? Maybe something like this?
Serafino Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 You'd need at least a mill with special tooling, and probably a lathe, maybe even a specialized industrial machine of some kind. A one-off you might manage with a small high quality lathe and a milling attachment but you'd spend a lot of time on it.
Logan Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 It's certainly 'possible'.. but it would be a lot harder than you'd think and would take a very long time a effort to get it right. CNC machining for even simple objects is very complex and a watch case could be as many as 100 different machining operations. I think Rolex claim 150 odd although thats probably a bit exaggerated like everything else from Rolex. I have a baby lathe and mill setup from Sherline (www.sherline.com) and whilst they are technically capable I wouldn't be game to try a full case build yet.
Rolexaddict Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 stop dreams and fantasms, More seriously : you want to produce cases ? pm sent, I need 5513, 1680, 1665, 1675 cases, also crowns, may be its possible also to buy a dial machine, I need dials for all cases mentionned lol
jmb Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 stop dreams and fantasms, More seriously : you want to produce cases ? pm sent, I need 5513, 1680, 1665, 1675 cases, also crowns, may be its possible also to buy a dial machine, I need dials for all cases mentionned lol A bit caustic/harsh? Jose - It's good to dream and reach but I don't think a small CNC router will do it. I have produced cases by hand on conventional machines but it is very labor intensive...
kbh Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Hey they have inexpensive 4 axis laser reading machines now that do exact duplicates of most anything. Unfortunately they only make the duplicates out of plastic.
Rolexaddict Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 A bit caustic/harsh? me ? I am a good boy si, si !
subbiesrock Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Entirely possible, but not with the little baby engraving machine you showed. YouTube 'Hublot factory' and see what the factories themselves use, to give you an idea. When you have the machine, you need a gen case and Solidworks ($5K US) to draw a case with measurements you get using a vernier caliper. You'd need to deconstruct the entire watch. Then you'd need a converter to machine code, then a converter to G-code, trust me, it's a pain in the ass.
mbjoer Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Could that machine make engravings on movements and plates?
JoeyB Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 And besides it being quite difficult, as everyone has already said, machining cases of a "Registered Design" is counterfeiting. That's a much stiffer penalty, and likely in more than one country, than 'trafficking' or buying counterfeits. Remember we push the line here now.
Blue1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 If you got the skills and equipment it's not that difficult to do a middle case. I beleive most cases are punched in several casts before the milling though. But it should be possible to mill a case from a solid metal piece aswell.
jmb Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 It's involved and labor intensive... http://www.rwg.cc/to...-101-chapter-1/ http://www.rwg.cc/to...-101-chapter-2/ http://www.rwg.cc/topic/117125-case-making-101-chapter-3/
praetor Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 outsourcing is definitely an option, just check out the work by the panerai guys. DIY is always labor intensive, prone to procrastination especially when you're so busy.
josechano Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Posted March 7, 2012 Thanks guys, that's exactly what I tried doing opening a thread like this. I guess the perfect case search will continue...
josechano Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Posted March 7, 2012 outsourcing is definitely an option, just check out the work by the panerai guys. DIY is always labor intensive, prone to procrastination especially when you're so busy. Actually I have a business trip to GZ and TW, will bring a few gens cases I own to see if someone could source like my friend Rolexaddict said 5513, 1680, 1665, 1675 cases.
Watchmeister Posted March 7, 2012 Report Posted March 7, 2012 Let's start with needing a 6 axis machine (at least for Panerai case) and the number of folks who have one. It's the little things like the bevel or radius edges that kill you. There is a reason why the rep guys sinter their cases. CNC is cost prohibitive if you are trying to get a case which is close to spec.
kbh Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 Let's start with needing a 6 axis machine (at least for Panerai case) and the number of folks who have one. It's the little things like the bevel or radius edges that kill you. There is a reason why the rep guys sinter their cases. CNC is cost prohibitive if you are trying to get a case which is close to spec. These rep cases are made by the same companies that make watches for the Chinese masses. They're not made in sweatshops and they could be made to gen specs if they wanted to make them.
Watchmeister Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 These rep cases are made by the same companies that make watches for the Chinese masses. They're not made in sweatshops and they could be made to gen specs if they wanted to make them. Most of our cases are sintered - metal "powder" poured into a mold and then "baked" to a level below melt point. Half the time they are not properly hardened. That is why you see cases occasionally lose a chunk. Gen cases use a chunk of properly formed 316L (or whatever specified steel) and then cut it down from the block. Night and day difference.
w0lf Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 These rep cases are made by the same companies that make watches for the Chinese masses. They're not made in sweatshops and they could be made to gen specs if they wanted to make them. Never going to happen. Reason is - simple ROI. Cutting and finishing megaton stamped AISI316L is not the same as deflash/deburr/polish finishing a 304L case from a matrix. You need machines with higher tolerances, more rigidity and you will need more and better cutters and specialized clamping. You basically need better equipment and tooling, not to mention the expendables of high quality, e.g. cutters, cutting and finishing abrasives, satination tools but most importantly, the know how to do proper finishing on watches like Rolex. Even without the sizable R&D and marketing costs, if the factories implemented a full production cycle of a top tier Swiss case maker the ammortized cost would skyrocket and they would be selling 100s of reps to anoraks like us instead of selling 10s of thousands to everyone and their dog.
Logan Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 The cost of CNC tools is plummeting as the chinese copy everything and make their own. The quality of reps will continue to evolve and we'll see closer and closer to the real thing. There will always be short cuts simply because the rep makers motivation is cost, not creating perceived quality like the genuine guys. Theres a reason the swiss genuines are going to all these alternative materials and systems, it's to make them hard to copy and to justify their ridiculous prices. Ceramic, Forged Carbon, Tungsten and now Hublot's new ceramic gold, even Richard Mille's sapphire crystal case are all part of this process. Likewise the super complex case shapes like the Richard Milles and the anything else with a weird shaped crystal.
stilty Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 And besides it being quite difficult, as everyone has already said, machining cases of a "Registered Design" is counterfeiting. That's a much stiffer penalty, and likely in more than one country, than 'trafficking' or buying counterfeits. Remember we push the line here now. We'll, I'd almost say the opposite. It is the Orig. Rolex Design, you would have a problem with. I'm pretty sure the patents for the Registered Design cases are now expired.
Logan Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 You can make all the rolex shape cases you like.. but put the Rolex logo on and sell them.. then you're in a whole different league..
Watchmeister Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 You can make all the rolex shape cases you like.. but put the Rolex logo on and sell them.. then you're in a whole different league.. Then let's go with Polex!
kbh Posted March 8, 2012 Report Posted March 8, 2012 We'll, I'd almost say the opposite. It is the Orig. Rolex Design, you would have a problem with. I'm pretty sure the patents for the Registered Design cases are now expired. Almost every legitimate watch company has been knocking off the DateJust case for many years. Obviously design patent isn't much of a problem.
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