themeditator Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Just curious as ever since coming onto this site and seeing the rep watches i've taken an interest. To all those out there who know what is the real difference between a rep and a gen? I mean the PAM 005 "looks" identical to the original so how is it the gen sells for 10x to 20x as much? Fair enough with gold and diamond however cannot seem to understand how expensive some gen watches go? Bet this is a simple answer for those here and would be interested to get your views. What makes the gen so special? Surely with new technology and precision rep's also are getting better and better. ThankYou M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 You have touched upon a reason some people purchase replicas. They feel that the companies making the genuine watches are asking an insulting amount of money for their products. In China, it is possible to buy a basic high quality Submariner with sapphire crystal and Asia 21j movement for about $50 US ... making even a quality watch is a lot less expensive that you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg1459 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 when you buy luxury products, you dont pay for the material for most of part. First of all, no rep can be same quality as a gen even as material, second and most importantly, replica manufacturers didnt create any brand value, they didnt design their own product, they didnt do any kind of marketing, they dont use costy swiss watchmakers, they dont have any kind of heritage nor didnt invent or achieved anything horological, they dont sell thru fancy jewelery dealer stores at hearts of major cities. it costs maybe only 200usd to make a gen rolex submariner but still 7k sale price is justified, as any luxury product. you can tell time just as good or even better with a swatch but its not luxury. this is as simple as it gets. replicas are just shadow of whats real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 I would suggest that the "luxury" is a shadow. It is only in your mind, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg1459 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 I would suggest that the "luxury" is a shadow. It is only in your mind, after all. hard but unfortunately true, that your comment is just an excuse for your mind if you cant, dont want to afford or want and cant afford material luxury. Dont tell me that these watches (gens) which are repped most accurately are overpriced and dont worth their price. If gens were all easily affordable by many, they wouldnt be luxury anymore and everybody in this forum would want tourbillions, pateks with perpetual calendars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 and I would counter, Sir, that the Emperor has no clothes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamyohan Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Genuine goods : you buy their brand, boosting your status or pride maybe, "my watch/bag/or other luxury goods is genuine "insert brand"" sentences, exclusivity. Replica goods: you buy the actual cost of the goods (approximately) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin18 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 It actually costs more to produce the box and stuff that comes with a genuine Rolex than the average replica. (Replica's cost as little as $10 to make) Taking everything into account a submariner for example would cost over a thousand to produce one including running cost, wages etc. Replica's made in china only cost pennies per each employees wages. The materials are not that expensive either nor do they use state of the art facilities to manufacture the watches. You wont find a replica of a high end watch better than the genuine article. A rolex for example would be described as "engineering perfection" hand built made by some of the finest watchmakers in the world. A replica's parts are usually mass produced and put together by unskilled workers so there's a big gap in quality there. A scubadiver wouldn't buy a replica rolex submariner because of how bad the quality is on replicas. Its also because of status. People buy high end watches to show what they have acheieved in life. Sadly if you wear a replica people will think you're a loser. To sum it all up its because of quality. You might think there's very little difference between a replica and gen because they LOOK almost identical but there are many factors. My dad collects rare genuine watches as a hobby and to sell when the demand gets higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 A rolex for example would be described as "engineering perfection" hand built made by some of the finest watchmakers in the world. If you go to Beil you will find a lot of migrant labor there strangly enough and the hand built bit, Naaa lots of robot, yes an eliment of hand assembly, but it is not carved out of a block in wooden chalet in the mountains, it is built by a machine in a hitech manufacturing facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 and I would counter, Sir, that the Emperor has no clothes. I love any thread with nudity. By the way, my screen name answers your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austintexas Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 New here. Thanks for a great forum. I love reps and own one gen, but it's a completely different thing. Around 1985 the Rolex Submariner caught my eye. It retailed for around $600, if I remember correctly. Classic design, quality craftsmanship, all that. I decided I wanted one. It was my holy grail. Finally was able to finance one in 1991, when the retail was $2500. Payed $175 a month forever on that watch, which I still wear today, 21 years later. It's my only gen, besides a few Swatches, a Mondaine, Seiko Monster, etc. Today, I think the Sub retails for around $6500. I own some reps and love them, but it's a different thing to own a gen. About 8 years ago, I sent the Sub to Rolex for basic cleaning. Cost $500 and the watch returned good as new. Better maybe, with the time-worn, but good as new look. The original materials that went into the watch allow you to own it for a lifetime, then pass it on to your children. It wasn't about status for me, it was about owning a classic piece of design and history that I would have forever. The sub seemed overpriced in 1985 for $600, same in 1991 when I paid $2500 and out of reach now at $6500+. But I have forever been thankful that I took a foolish chance and bought it when I did. it has given me 20 years of pleasure and I expect another 20 years with my watch. Reps, on the other hand, allow me to enjoy some of the classic designs that I could never afford. It's a pleasure to own some classic designs, see them in action on my wrist and enjoy the variety that is available. They fulfill an important roll in my watch collection, but they also play a different roll..they are temporary enjoyments, not meant to last a lifetime. Sorry for the ramble, just trying to explain the difference for me between rep and gen and how each is important to me in different ways and for different reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Rep versus gen extends to all kinds of things. Why do people ever buy gen handbags - leather is leather. $300 versus $6k in the case of Hermes Birkin's. And it is all choice. No one can justify 10x the cost for some improvements but let's face it we are buying a branded rep we care too. we are just too cheap. Otherwise we would be buying a no-name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 @ Austintexas good ramble mate well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movementum Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 What`s the difference between a character actor in a stratford play and Tom Hanks. Both, after all, are likely reasonably attractive, fine actors, decent people, and dedicated to their craft? Why does Tom Hanks command such a high price? Well, putting Tom Hanks on a marquis brings in more revenue. It took a lot of time and money and effort to get Tom Hanks to the point where people feel comfortable with him, they know he'll perform, and they'll shell out money to see him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceberg1459 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Rep versus gen extends to all kinds of things. Why do people ever buy gen handbags - leather is leather. $300 versus $6k in the case of Hermes Birkin's. And it is all choice. No one can justify 10x the cost for some improvements but let's face it we are buying a branded rep we care too. we are just too cheap. Otherwise we would be buying a no-name. you can get very high quality no name bags which are even better than most LV models (i owned both) for around 200eur lets be honest, you just want a status symbol, quality is excuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utheman Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 +1 to austintexas. I feel the same way. If you changed 1991 to 1992, then that would be my story exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 A rolex for example would be described as "engineering perfection" hand built made by some of the finest watchmakers in the world. Im sorry but you are wrong here. If you look at videos of the Rolex facilities, you would see that robotic machines stamp out Rolex watches as fast as they can go. Yes, there are extreme Swiss luxury brands which are built by hand but they certainly do not produce 1,000,000 watches a year, as Rolex does. More like 100 watches a year at $100,000 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Im sorry but you are wrong here. If you look at videos of the Rolex facilities, you would see that robotic machines stamp out Rolex watches as fast as they can go. Yes, there are extreme Swiss luxury brands which are built by hand but they certainly do not produce 1,000,000 watches a year, as Rolex does. More like 100 watches a year at $100,000 each. jkay is right. How many watchmakers do you think it would take to "hand build" 1 million watches a year. The big diference in my opinion is quality control. While everything is not hand made, the watches are hand assembled by skilled watchmakers, and they are tested before leaving. Your Rolex Replica sub may or may not pass a 3 atmos. pressure test. every Rolex sub passes the water resistance test or it's rejected and redone. So if I go scuba diving with my 16610, I'm pretty sure it's not going to flood at 60 feet. Of course that's providing that I do my part to make sure it's maintained.However in the same vein, i have no hesitation taking my 800 USD MKII Kingston (Rolex Bond homage) diving, as I'm quite sure that MkII's quality control is every bit as good as Rolex. Another thing you are paying for of course is the "name" Just using Rolex as and example, they spend millions and millions of dollars every year promoting the brand. So considering the higher quality control, much higher salaries and overhead and advertising, it's no wonder there is a significant cost difference.Remember as well, Rolex isn't selling directly to you, rather through their "authorised dealer" network. I have no idea what the dealers pay for the watches, but if it's in line with some other brands, Rolex is getting probably 3.5-4K for the 6.5K Submariner. In my opinion, while there should be a significant difference in cost, I believe that a lot of the sales price is simply and add on to the cost. It's basically what companies charge, because they can.That's the part that's added to insure that "the great unwashed" cannot afford their stuff, as well as adding to their brands lofty unobtainability. Remember that with a certain segment of the population, the more expensive and harder it is to find, the more desirable it becomes and the more they want it. I do agree with austintexas (wonder where he's from!!) Well built quality watches are and investment. I have a couple of 1960's era watches that still run well, and are in great condition. I wouldn't take them diving, but i'm not afraid to wash my hands with them on either.The biggest problem with most of us is that we are never satisfied with the watches we have. we are constantly trading, selling and buying something new. I have about 8 watches in my watchbox , 6 genuine, and 2 replicas that I won't sell. of my other 10 or so watches, I like, but if something comes along that really resonates, I wouldn't hesitate to get rid of them.So unfortunately, most of us never develop that feeling of buying a watch to hang on to and pass on to the next generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrandazzo Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Gen vs Rep? With some sacrifice and savings you can buy a gen. Like any gen...a speedmaster, 14060 no cosc, etc... Try it on your wrist, look at it, admire it and adore it...taste the genuiness, the flawless quality... It totally worth it. You can proudly leave it to your son...heritage of sacrifice and years of savings maybe, a lifetime buddy, that your son will proudly wear... "that's my dad's 14060" Now a 14060 no cosc It's a poor man Rolex...but in a 20 years? My 2 cents: buy gen watches you love, and if you can a classic pieces that would never get you tired of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Again these are emotions surrounding a perception. Some people emotionally need to have Gens. That's how they are wired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrandazzo Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 I need to own the gen of the watch I'm crazy for! Some watches works as reps...some you need to buy the gen. It depends on how much you love that watch... For some people reps are shadow of luxury...for some others they are just the small step before falling in love. You don't keep a rep watch you don't like and It's not grown on you.... You sell or trade it usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Some of the big "Swiss" brands outscource there work to China to keep cost down and profits up. No news flash really....just saying. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraExtra Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Austintexas described it really well. These are luxury goods. They could have been made in Switzerland or China but that has little to do with the price of the goods. What you are really paying for is the story behind the brand and model and how it makes you feel owning one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin18 Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 If you go to Beil you will find a lot of migrant labor there strangly enough and the hand built bit, Naaa lots of robot, yes an eliment of hand assembly, but it is not carved out of a block in wooden chalet in the mountains, it is built by a machine in a hitech manufacturing facility. Im sorry but you are wrong here. If you look at videos of the Rolex facilities, you would see that robotic machines stamp out Rolex watches as fast as they can go. Yes, there are extreme Swiss luxury brands which are built by hand but they certainly do not produce 1,000,000 watches a year, as Rolex does. More like 100 watches a year at $100,000 each. Pretty much every company uses machines to make watches some way or another. The point is Rolex build their watches with skilled workers who put the watch together perfectly. With all due respect to the Chinese workers, they generally won't be anywhere near as good as those guys, thus making a shoddily built watch. Some of those watchmakers earns over $100k a year. Like I said earlier a Chinese worker can sometimes just earn a few pennies a day. It seems you need to severely mod and invest in a replica to actually make it a believable replica. After you spend all that money you'd rather just buy a second hand gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 The fund is often in the build more than any thing else! and i think you underestimate the chinese http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/seagull-quarter-repeater-53090.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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