CPTony Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Got my Exp II 42 mm few weeks ago from a TD, asked explicitely for the latest version and paid over 400 bucks for it. It lasted 12 hours on my wrist then stopped working, after playing with the crown it started but again it stopped. It's not my first rep with problems (in cases like this it is the stem) and often , when I have asked for an advice, i was told that "this is part of the game", "don't send it back to the TD as you will be waiting long weeks to get a replacement" etc.. and I was fine with it as I have received perfect reps many times so an issue can happen as "part of the game". However, i sent the watch to Domi who has just informed me that the movement is not new, but an old recycled one that needs an overal inspection! So I wonder: is it still part of the game to pay 400+$ for an old recycled movement? and is it to ask for the latest version when only the outer side is new? I still have the PM here where I wrote: "I want one in white with a swiss eta". am I right to think that I was a little bit ripped off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 It is reasonable to assume that when you buy online, you SHOULD get a brand new item with new parts, and if that is not the case, the TD should inform you accordingly. Having said that, I am not surprised that problems like this are encountered from time to time. You are being dealt with dishonestly, and you should highlight that to the TD involved if you intend to carry on a business relationship with him.. He could always argue that he supplied you what you requested, albeit it not being brand new. $400 plus is a little high to pay for the watch though in my opinion, unless it has value added features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Which seller mind you whoever it is this is not on, if it's one of the TD here you should inform one of the mods to give you some help with this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATerai Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I highly doubt a dealer will perform an inspection to see If the movement is brand new...he will check If it Works and regulate it but by all means they are no watchsmiths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomhorn Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Many of the dealers drop-ship and never actually see the watch you receive. Depending on who you purchased from, this could in fact be 'part of the game'. Also, you don't state what movement it was, but assuming it was an ETA 2836, it's also 'part of the game' that you received a recycled movement. The ETA movements have become increasingly difficult to source, so I'm sure it's more common for the factories to find recycled movements these days. You're more likely to get a 'new' movement if you go with the Asian clones, but even then, the movements will likely not be lubricated properly and you could still have problems. That's why I factor a service into anything I buy, and send the watch off once I've determined I'm keeping it long term. No, it's not right, but it's also not that surprising. Have you contacted your dealer about the situation? Yes, it's a hassle to sent it back, but if they are one of the TD's here, I'm sure they'll take care of you. Edited July 30, 2012 by tomhorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankt Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Apparently, there seems to have, once again, developed a level of tolerance for those famous "white lies" that we discussed at length a few years back on the various forums..... The "Swiss movement" myth should be taken as just another one of these LIES that will be told to ensnare the trusting and unwary among us... In light of the fact that ETA(Swatch group)is fighting the Swiss authorities quite vigorously to avoid selling their ebauches to their competition WITHIN SWITZERLAND, and ETA is winning the battle, what might be the chances that ANY NEW Swiss ETA movements might make it into replica watches made in CHINA...??? Yes, there is always Sellitta, but given the scarcity of movements in general, once again...What are the chances that they'll be cloned too, sooner rather than later.... The only really good news is that the latest versions of the ETA "clones" seems to be a step up in overall quality... The real solution to the problem is for those who buy these high end reps to STOP "feeding the monster", and simply select the clone movement option, realizing that that's what they'll get anyhow if they're lucky... I have noticed a trend by many of the newer folks to want to buy the "best", and innocently getting sucked into the "Swiss made" vortex...IMNSFHO, we should make it quite clear to them that all they are doing is wasting money...And creating potential quandaries like this OP has found himself ensnared in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I like the image that conjures up..... The "Swiss Made Vortex " I guess that goes with the AAAAAA+++++ version Though back on track..... the dealer orders the model... the maker has it ready or puts it together.... if he dont have what he needs you get whats on the table (notice I doint say bench!!) Its a tough one but yes its part of the game.... but having said that I would expect a TD to resolve it by some method... it wont be perfect and certainly wont involve a refund but I am sure you could get something from them even if its a few free shipping coups or the like... As for the idea of getting a swiss.... thats almost as likely as getting 1:1 replication .....certainly at the moment... unless they have an old one laying about Which seems to be the example here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 What happened to the QC claims of most of our dealers???? That is if you didn't order from one of them.....then it's a moot point! If you did, then somethin s fishey..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 What happened to the QC claims of most of our dealers???? That is if you didn't order from one of them.....then it's a moot point! If you did, then somethin s fishey..... TBH I always found the QC process to be a bit misleading in a lot of circumstances.... I think the dealer sees it more as a means of washing his hands rather than a way of providing comfort... OK it does work in most circumstances.. But most dealers know they can influence the way pics present the watch.... in addition you can get a watch you didnt QC... and if you raise an issue a lot of dealers will give you the ... Its a rep !! line.. Now I aint slagging off the dealers and generally it can work for both parties but things happen... a lot of dealers also know we wont send something back... we will just fix it or put it down to the game.... In my own case.... I dont get QC pics generally as my dealer is trusted not just by the forum but also by me personally... he is a modder and has been about a long time, I know his eye and what he looks for from a watch....but what I do is list the known issues of a watch I want and ask him to check for them... thats can sometimes include the movement.... he also keeps the watch running for 48hrs before he ships.... if he is unsure he might send a pic but it will be of the specific detail and in macro.. Some guys here I think see QC as a lazy way of getting the best rep they can.... but anyone should always research a model and the version.... see whats discussed and know what is an issue generally or not...its not just about the obvious things like scratches, damage etc... If you know a model has specific consistency issues... then before you order you should email dealer and express your requirements... and that you dont want to argue about that issue if it arises in the QC pics you just want a replacement... if you have that guarantee then you can use the process much better... Same goes for any point of concern... including movements.... you tell dealer before you order that you want the movement verified.... some will some wont some do some dont.... I have always found dealers ready to provide guarantees about possible issues before i order.... I had one recently... I had three knock backs until I got what I wanted... but we had preagreed it... it wasnt perfect but it was the best I could expect as a rep and not as bad as most I have seen... Most dealers dont hold stock if fact no dealer does.... they may buy a couple of dozen models if they are 'Hot' or first issue but other than that they dont have them there ready.... and once they order from maker most makers wont take them back if there is a fault... the dealer has to take the hit... or sell it to someone else !! Some dealers have better relationship with certain dealers.... like the H factory is a PIA to deal with.. you ask any dealer... they refuse to deal with some dealers or will sell them models but wont engage any further than that... so in that case if you pick a dealer who has a bad relationship with a maker and something goes wrong in terms of issues/defects etc then you will have a problem or certainly your dealer will.... Andrew and Josh have a good relationship with H Maker.... Angus doesnt nor does S or Rochest etc... but Angus has good relationship with Noob... so he can generally get replacements etc... It goes on and on.. The only way to minimise the risks of this game is to get to know it.... Know the players... know the processes.... everyday is a new learning day... But most importantly know the rep you are buying.... know exactly what you are ordering, what level of quality you can expect and what to look for when its ready... Dont rely on posting QC pics for advice and comment especially if you arent asking something specific... If you are Pre Ordering then you are doubling that risk.... so pick the dealer... know how he resolves issues etc.... and ask before you buy/order tell them what you expect or what you wont accept... that way they have a choice... As a little example.... I sent a few TD dealers (over 10) an email looking for a specific watch.... all of them said they couldnt get it, it was no longer made and the maker had no stock.... I already knew this but hoped one of them might have a lead on one.... sitting on a shelf or in a market stall somewhere... However 1 very well known and well trusted dealer replied by saying order it first then I will let you know but should be OK... plus he wanted me to pay the full whack whereas I know the makers have dropped their prices by a few hundred dollars.... which I know he must know given his relationship with them... but even if he dont I know... he knows its not available from the maker.... I know he discussed it with another dealer Its all a game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 AMEN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 +1 on what's been said above... How many times has someone posted the comment that all new watches should be serviced and treated on the assumption that the movement is recycled, not box fresh? C'mon, left foot right foot, it's not hard , and certainly not unheard of. Yes, this is part of the game, and it's a known part of the game, not some recently pulled trick... As PeteM mentions, CQ pics are nothing but a dealer's trick to avoid responsibility, and it's just like a three magic trick: Part One: Dealer: Here're pictures, you like? Buyer: Looks good, send it over Part Two: Situation as described by the OP... Buyer: There's a problem with the movement, it's not a new movement. Part Three: Dealer: You said pics were fine, I sent watch... So yeah, while this may not happen all the time (meaning most watches don't fail so soon) as above, the situation itself is totally part of the game. As PeteM said, you need to trust the dealer you use, not rely on reputation, status or anything like that. Don't be a fish in a barrel, think outside the box... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I buy very few new reps. I prefer to try to find what I'm looking for on the sales forum. By the time the owner has the watch for a while, generally the problems will have occured.Having said that EVERY watch I intend to keep long term is sent off for a service. Lots of mine are vintage, my old Rolex reps have 2846 movements (transplanted, not from the factory) I have gotten several NOS 2846 movements that have been sitting on a shelf, inside some obscure brand watch for maybe 20 + years. Every one of these movements even though they are theoretically brand new, reguire a thorough cleaning and lubrication. The Chinese manufacurers are buying the cheapest "buy in bulk" movements you can buy. These are not the beautiful ETA Swiss movements that come hermetically sealed in a package that is dust and moisture proof, these are movements that probably come 200 to a box!! They are not protected , sealed or particularly well cared for. They grab the movements out the box, case them up, put the rest of the watch together ,and out the door it goes. Some are great, some are OK, and some are not so great. Factor in a service into the price you pay, you will be happy you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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