blue. Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Well, quite some time has passed since my entry into RWG and collecting some gen and rep watches. Thanks to all of you, I managed to gather some special info on a, for me, special Rolex. It is the Rolex Explorer 1 1016. Here is also the place to thank the members LHOOQ, JMB, ricou2273 (from another forum) and not at last Reg. One month of investigation, some minor parts & tools orders, as well as waiting for the MBK Explorer 1016 to arrive, has ended the last Friday. I would like to gradate the review of the MBK Explorer 1016 in to some pre history steps leading me to this model and some technical details about it, because information about this rep is as good as non present here on this forum. Pre- history The love for the Explorer 1016 stared last year as I was viewing some mood pictures, looking for inspiration (working in the design field). All of a sudden there was this Rolex Oyster Precision 5500. At that time I wasn´t much aware of the existence ofvintage Rolex models and a friend of mine mentioned that there is a more famed model, called the Explorer 1016. I was hooked. Some months have followed, when I was into homage watches and almost forgot about the Explorer 1016, then I saw an interesting Homage series of Explorer watches, like the MKII Vantage, Sandoz Explorer. They were pretty close to the gen style, but didn´t convince for two reasons. The first is that they look like, but are not (no brand logos, not correct case, dial, bracelet etc.) the famous watch brand. The second reason was the availability. Those homage watches are in fact highly seeked, but cost even as second hand about $200 up to +$500 and on top of that are almost impossible to find on the forum markets. The only solution to have the Explorer feeling was the rep market, offering the "real" thing with correct proportions, brandigs etc., without paying a small fortune for the genuine for example. All in all, taking part in the history (owning a vintage Rolex), by being on the safer side in terms of financials. I wasn´t aware the rep market offered vintage time pieces, so I was quite pleasantly surprised when I saw some interesting threads here on rwg and another forum. Asked for some advices and information and became 2 clear routes, regarding the Explorer 1016. The first was buying an out of the box rep, where the MBK version was mentioned to be the best (so far), or as second option building a custom Explorer. JMB was referred as a possible address for the second option, but as he was (or still is) swamped with work, fell out of the possibilities. Having a clear decision I contacted Reg and got lucky on having him to find that specific rep for me right from the source. The deal Before the MBK Explorer 1016 arrived I received some pictures of it (as usual as this step is). I got confused with the dial and hands. The dial actually states "Swiss made". Historically, the Explorer 1016 has "Swiss", "Swiss- T<25". Even the new service dials have "Swiss- T<25" written on them. Despite this fact (now for me a minor one), the dial is very crisp. The hands seemed to be missing a bit of lume on some of the images. It turned out those hands had some "casual" patina already, lets say a bit of corrosion, some small dots, giving a more aged feel for a vintage time piece like this. Technical detailsThe Case It was mentioned that the case isn´t 100% gen specific, which I can confirm. Lug holes are small and on a different position in contrast to the gen 1016 Explorer. I first wanted to re-drill them, but as I removed the bracelet to inspect the case much closer I saw near the obligatory "ORIG POLLX DESING" (not typical MBK -"... POLEX DESIGN") the model marking 14270, which surprised me quite a lot. I did a fast research of that model. Results gave me a lot of confidence, because the 14270 had a limited version "Blackout". That specific version had the drilled lugs and reference pictures show those diameters and position to be very close (in not the same) to the lug holes on the MBK Explorer. Otherwise, case height, profile, crown position and bezel look OK for me. The crystal is OK too, since the were also some 1016 Explorer with super dome crystal profiles. Inspecting the Lug holes a bit closer, I realised they do not lie on the same axis. Meaning a completely new drill through would result in bracelet misalignment and crooked holes. I decided not to ruin the case and left the holes as they are, where they are. Good that I haven´t bought drill bits, drill press etc. prior to the watch arrival. Finally my case is a 14270 Blackout case and doesn´t need any modifications The Bracelet The bracelet is a solid oyster type. It has the correct spring bar hole diameters in the end links, meaning that you can place genuine Rolex 23-9293 (Explorer 1016, Sub) spring bars, as I did of course Those gen specification spring bars enter not fully into the lug holes of the case but enter just enough to stay bomb proof there! The best part is that the bracelet does not need any type of modification and accepts the gen spring bars without compromise.The Movement The movement seems to be a genuine (vintage in all means) Swiss ETA 2824-1 (yes 2824-1 not -2) with custom rotor. It keeps good time, but I am unable to be specific on this topic, neither see any indication if the jewels are 17 or 25. Any detailed information is welcome, also what the meaning of the symbol of the rotor means? Is it a common symbol with which MBK ETA´s are marked? [*]Conclusion In reality the MBK Explorer 1016 is an Explorer 14270 Blackout, modified with a 1016 dial and crystal. Despite the steeper price I am pleased by the good material finish. The dial, the bracelet and overall feeling are satisfying for me. Having a case laid out for a Swiss ETA makes this time piece suitable for a movement swap with another genuine Swiss ETAm should there be any need to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 That looks damn good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Great write-up. If you keep reading LHOOQ and JMB's post, you will keep wanting more of these. Wear it in good health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 The symbol on the rotor is the Calatrava Cross. Most of these movements probably end up inside an MBK Patek Philippe Nautilus. Congratulations on the Explorer! There seems to be a lot of 1016s in the Rolex subforum these days, and that makes me happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeypunch Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Nice watch! That PVD 5500 Explorer looks pretty sweet as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Great writeup. Explorer I has certain charm. Thanks for taking the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walrashish Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Very nice. I want one of those solid-link bracelets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue. Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thank you for the feedback @LHOOQ : Thank you for the information about the "Calatrava cross". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I wasn't aware MBW had an Explorer, very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue. Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) They do have more than one, as I assume, on the parts used to assemble the 1016 model. Has anyone seen an "Explorer 14270 Blackout" made by MBK? Seems they make that model, because the case is marked 14270. Sizes and proportions, lug holes seem quite close to the gen, but I can not prove 100% since I have no access to the gen. Edited October 9, 2012 by blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 We haven't seen a whole lot of MBK's at all in the last couple years, since 'Maria' went away. He brought us all the MBW's for a long time. The only MBK's we see really...are the occasional watch from Narikka/Reg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselpower Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 The symbol on the rotor is the Calatrava Cross. Most of these movements probably end up inside an MBK Patek Philippe Nautilus. Congratulations on the Explorer! There seems to be a lot of 1016s in the Rolex subforum these days, and that makes me happy. I saw the similarity between the symbol on the movement and the Patek Calatrava Cross but did not mention it as, if you compare it to Patek's logo, it is such a p*ss poor copy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 I saw the similarity between the symbol on the movement and the Patek Calatrava Cross but did not mention it as, if you compare it to Patek's logo, it is such a p*ss poor copy! Yep. If someone compliments you on your Patek Nautilus and asks if he could try it on, your best response is to tell them to get lost! blue.: To clarify, all of the early 14270s (up to the mid-90s) had lugholes--not just the much-rarer Blackouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmj Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Great write up and photos. Thank you for sharing your experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue. Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 blue.: To clarify, all of the early 14270s (up to the mid-90s) had lugholes--not just the much-rarer Blackouts. Interesting. Thanks for the info, LHOOQ. I couldn´t see in my rough research any 14270s (non Blackouts) with lugholes, from that era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 "...the 14270 had a limited version "Blackout" (dial) I have an Exp 14270 that I got from Watchlover David 10+ years ago and it has a blackout dial, lug holes etc but the lug holes had to be drilled out to the correct size...they were drilled straight through the lugs to start with though. Also got a 'cream dial' Exp II from someone (River? can't remember) back then that looks pretty good. It even had silvertone surrounds on the markers like genuine where most had black surrounds. "The dial actually states "Swiss made". Historically, the Explorer 1016 has "Swiss", "Swiss- T<25". Even the new service dials have "Swiss- T<25" written on them." They probably copied a later Luminova replacement dial. That's Ok because a lot of watches have them now. I have a replacement Luminova dial with T-25 but I got it before they went to 'swiss made'. "Inspecting the Lug holes a bit closer, I realised they do not lie on the same axis. Meaning a completely new drill through would result in bracelet misalignment and crooked holes." I have seen this in a lot of later cases. I drilled a few out to 1.3mm and used a slightly curved springbar with good results. Sometimes the curved sb will cause trouble getting them through the connecting link in the bracelet. They always end up looking fine after they are installed though. If you do not curve the sb, the 'plugs' (ends) may bind and not pass all the way through the lug holes. The 1016 is my all time favorite rolex. I would wear mine if I could find it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 [Double post.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 blue.: Check out this '91 example on Chrono24. Not only does it have lugholes, but it also has beautifully yellowed markers on its T dial. automatico: Have you checked between the seat cushions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue. Posted October 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Check out this '91 example on Chrono24. Not only does it have lugholes, but it also has beautifully yellowed markers on its T dial. Thanks. Never had a doubt! @automatico: Thank you for your feedback on the lugholes, dial, spring bars. Actually as far as I know the "Swiss- T<25" means that the light mass on the dial is tritium. The sign "<25" means that the radiation of the tritium is lower than 25 microsieverts/hr. For some vintage Sub models, the newer service dials are marked "Swiss Made" (Super Luminova?). I have no clear explanation why the new service dials for the Explorer 1016 keep that "Swiss- T<25" still written on. I find the MBK Explorer dial with the "Swiss Made" as passable. That marking is really small, barely notable, except you look for it. If one receives some questions why the dial states "Swiss Made" and not "Swiss- T<25", you may answer that is is a newer service dial, for example. Other (for me minor flaw) is the "OYSTER PERPETUAL EXPLORER", which is written not in a sherif font but with size and proportion that are very close to the genuine. Again, those markings are small enough and in the right sizes and positions. One would need time and an armed eye (or to look from a really close distance) to see those flaws. There is a watch for each and every occasion. Finally, I personally doubt I would wear the Explorer out on Gala nights (black tie), where the watch may be exposed to an unforeseeable number of people, taking in account some of them are Rolex experts and would be interested in my timepiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 "automatico: Have you checked between the seat cushions?" I found it hanging on a hook under the parts cabinet mounted above my workbench. No telling how long it's been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsPeterAndImOld Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Where'd you get that watch from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue. Posted October 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Where'd you get that watch from? PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooksbrahs Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Id like to know a source also? Been looking for a used MBK for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue. Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Id like to know a source also? Been looking for a used MBK for some time. PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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