5513 case back opener size?

[jackflash]

I bought a 29.5 mm case back opener socket, not a Bergeon but something similar. However it appears to be too small for my 5513, is this usual? Is the milled edge of the rep case back slightly larger in diameter than the original? I've attached a couple of images.

 

[alligoat]

It could be the rep caseback or the 29.5mm wrench that you have, either one or both could be the culprit. Have you tried the caseback opener on another watch? I bought the cheapo set of dies early on. Finally passed them on to my nephew and got a set of Bergeon- well worth the investment.

Every so often you run into a bogus caseback, but usually you can get it off with a little persistence.

[jackflash]

Yes I tried it with my 5517 too. Same problem, both watches were from the same dealer. I'd hate to get a Bergeon socket and it not fit. Just wondering if anyone had the same problem with rep case backs and tool sizes.

[offshore]

@jackflash-

Please read this- There are some dud dies around.

 

http://watchbitz.com.au/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=51

 

However that photo looks way out, a lot worse than I have seen. If you would like to put a mic on the OD of the knurled area, I can measure it against a known 29.5 that works.

But that looks way bigger...almost need a 36.5 DSSD die on that one.Normally the tools which don't fit are just a whisker too small, but that one you can see the knurled area almost completely.

I think your case manufacturer is having a lend.

 

Offshore

[sneed12]

That's why god invented the sticky ball

[offshore]

That's why god invented the sticky ball

 

 

Seriously, Have you ever tried to undo a tight case back with a sticky ball?

Let alone nip one up and actually get it water tight.

Toys for the kiddies, not serious watch tools!

 

O/S

[sneed12]

Seriously, Have you ever tried to undo a tight case back with a sticky ball?

 

As a matter of fact, I have.

 

Can't get all of them, but you'd be surprised how much torque you can apply with a good clean sticky ball.

 

Let alone nip one up and actually get it water tight.

 

I have made something like 3 dozen dives wearing watches that were closed with sticky balls.

 

This watch was assembled by me and closed up with a sticky ball

 

Over-torquing the threads won't make a watch water tight, it's about flatness of the mating surfaces and a good gasket. Overtightening can actually ruin water tightness.

 

Toys for the kiddies, not serious watch tools!

 

Whatever you say, sir. You sound like the guys on the gen forums talking trash about reps. What works, works.

[jackflash]

@jackflash-

Please read this- There are some dud dies around.

 

http://watchbitz.com.au/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=51

 

However that photo looks way out, a lot worse than I have seen. If you would like to put a mic on the OD of the knurled area, I can measure it against a known 29.5 that works.

But that looks way bigger...almost need a 36.5 DSSD die on that one.Normally the tools which don't fit are just a whisker too small, but that one you can see the knurled area almost completely.

I think your case manufacturer is having a lend.

 

Offshore

Thanks for the link offshore. I guess I've got a dud. 

[jackflash]

As a matter of fact, I have.

 

Can't get all of them, but you'd be surprised how much torque you can apply with a good clean sticky ball.

 

 

I have made something like 3 dozen dives wearing watches that were closed with sticky balls.

 

This watch was assembled by me and closed up with a sticky ball

 

Over-torquing the threads won't make a watch water tight, it's about flatness of the mating surfaces and a good gasket. Overtightening can actually ruin water tightness.

 

 

Whatever you say, sir. You sound like the guys on the gen forums talking trash about reps. What works, works.

@Sneed12. Sounds great, did you make your own sticky ball? What did you use? Thanks

[offshore]

 

 

Can't get all of them, but you'd be surprised how much torque you can apply with a good clean sticky ball.

 

 

I have made something like 3 dozen dives wearing watches that were closed with sticky balls.

 

This watch was assembled by me and closed up with a sticky ball

 

 

And tell me just how you know when a watch is sealed, and when it isn't? A waterproof test, preferably with a vacuum and wet tester may give you an answer, anything else is just speculation.

I regularly do strip downs and rebuild movements which have been drowned because novices insisted on using a sticky ball.

There is a correct tool for the job, in fact a number of them, however the sticky ball is a shortcut, not a serious watch tool.

If you look in my shop, you will see we sell them-          http://watchbitz.com.au/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=52

And you will also note that even though we get the best of them, we make no claims as to their ability to close a case back.

We sell them simply due to demand....there are many novices out there who initially think they can take a short cut.

It is only after a couple of "leakages" that the sense in paying for the proper tool becomes evident.

 

However please continue to live on blindly your own little world, serious watch repairers will use the right tools, and the amateurs will continue to gamble.

 

Offshore

PS Read my signature..

[sneed12]

And tell me just how you know when a watch is sealed, and when it isn't? A waterproof test, preferably with a vacuum and wet tester may give you an answer, anything else is just speculation.

 

Uhh... I swim down 80-100 feet into the ocean, and it doesn't leak.

 

That's not "speculation." That's waterproof by definition.

 

However please continue to live on blindly your own little world, serious watch repairers will use the right tools, and the amateurs will continue to gamble.

 

 

I'm not pretending that a sticky ball is the right tool for the job every time. I have a Bergeron clone and a set of dies, too. But these are reps, and sometimes they're made to odd sizes, and in those cases a sticky ball is a nice thing to have.

 

Why do you have such a bug up your ass about it? If serious watch repairers are all like you I'm happy to continue being an amateur, you don't sound like you have any fun.

 

You're the one living blindly in his own little world. Telling me that a vacuum tester says more about whether a watch is waterproof than diving with it is insane.

[sneed12]

@Sneed12. Sounds great, did you make your own sticky ball? What did you use? Thanks

 

 

Literally just a rubber ball. Wash it well with soap and keep it clean, any grease on it lessens its effectiveness a lot.

 

As I said above, it's not the right tool for all jobs and I do have a Jaxa and a Bergeron style caseback wrench, but it's nice to have especially in the rep world where things are often made to odd sizes.

[offshore]

FFS,

If you just dive with the watch and it isn't sealed, its "Say good night"

Which is why most who work on watches adopt a slightly less kamikaze approach to testing.

 

 

Telling me that a vacuum tester says more about whether a watch is waterproof than diving with it is insane.

 

It doesn't say any more or less about whether the watch is waterproof, it does say that anyone who uses diving as a test method, needs to look at their sanity!

Thats like saying,-" I wonder if these air bags work."   "OK I 'll run the car into a wall at 60mph to find out!"

 

::shakes head::

 

Offshore

[sneed12]

FFS,

If you just dive with the watch and it isn't sealed, its "Say good night"

Which is why most who work on watches adopt a slightly less kamikaze approach to testing.

 

It's a couple-hundred-dollar rep. Yes, if it were a several-thousand-dollar gen I'd have it tested first.

 

However, you're moving the goalposts.

 

First you implied I couldn't get it water-tight with the sticky ball:

 

Seriously, Have you ever tried to undo a tight case back with a sticky ball?

Let alone nip one up and actually get it water tight.

 

Then you said diving with a watch doesn't prove that it's watertight:

 

And tell me just how you know when a watch is sealed, and when it isn't? A waterproof test, preferably with a vacuum and wet tester may give you an answer, anything else is just speculation.

 

Now you're calling me a kamikaze.

 

I'm utterly puzzled by WTF happened in this thread. I suggested a tool which, given our hobby, is surprisingly useful. Yes, if I were an authorized Rolex watchmaker who only worked on Rolex watches I could probably just use a set of Bergeron dies and a a wrench, but these are reps. They come in whatever sizes the rep factory felt like making them. A sticky ball is a good thing to keep on hand, especially/specifically for the circumstance that the OP mentions: the rep caseback doesn't fit the size of die it's supposed to fit.

 

Then you go off on some weird old-man get-off-my-lawn rant about how sticky balls are kids toys and "serious watch repairers" don't use them. Well, like I said, if "serious watch repairers" are all as stuck-up as you are I don't want to be one. I'm just a guy who likes tinkering with watches, and I have fun. I'll keep using my sticky ball right along with my Chinese copy of a Jaxa wrench and my other Chinese copy of a Bergeron tool to close my watches, and I'll keep diving with them, and if it makes you feel better to believe that they can't possibly be waterproof, you go right ahead.

[offshore]

The fact is you can't ever be sure of creating a seal with a sticky ball. You cannot apply sufficient torque.

You can with decent tools.

Too many newbs open their watch easily with a sticky ball, because it was never tight!

And I challenge you to check a few reps, and you will find this to be fact.

And then expect when they close the case back, that they are sealed, when in fact they aren't and never will be, Not whilst a sticky ball is employed.

 

But you are welcome to continue with your pipe dream, just don't quote it as a matter fact to those learning the ropes.

I think we have a duty to assist new members, not hand out poor advice.

 

I visit China at least once every year, and I see with my own eyes how these watches are assembled, most case backs are finger tight , at best.

Because either no tools, or sticky balls are being employed.

This is the very reason we have so many failures in the rep scene.

 

Its not worth discussing further, you have your view, and I have mine, and i know which is correct.

 

Offshore.

[Guest zeleni kukuruz]

Im not a huge fan of opening watches, done it just a few times to regulate the time. And when i did it i used this, silver tejp works great and waterproof and seld afterwords also

 

[jackflash]

Wow! Next time I'll just buy the Bergeon. Thanks everyone!

[sneed12]

The fact is you can't ever be sure of creating a seal with a sticky ball. You cannot apply sufficient torque.

 

It's true that you cannot apply the kind of torque with a sticky ball that you can with a good wrench. I never said or implied otherwise.

 

And I challenge you to check a few reps, and you will find this to be fact.

 

I've opened a couple of hundred reps. Why would you think I would disagree with you? I never said or implied that reps come tight from the factory.

 

And then expect when they close the case back, that they are sealed, when in fact they aren't and never will be, Not whilst a sticky ball is employed.

 

See, here is where you are wrong. Demonstrably wrong.

 

You say they "never will be" but I posted a picture of a watch, under ten feet of water, which I personally closed up with a sticky ball.

 

I never said that a sticky ball is the best tool in all situations. I never said that a sticky ball should replace a good set of wrenches. All I said was, when you are faced with an odd sized Rolex rep back, which is supposed to fit the die you have but doesn't, that's pretty much what sticky balls were created for. For what they're supposed to do, they work fine.

 

But you are welcome to continue with your pipe dream, just don't quote it as a matter fact to those learning the ropes.

 

I have no idea why you have such a strong level of emotional investment in this issue but it's both weirding me out and, frankly, making me regret the fact that I've bought tools from you before.

 

You are wrong. You are making statements which are factually incorrect. You state that it's not possible to close a caseback tight enough to be water resistant with a sticky ball, but I have personally done it a couple of dozen times.

 

I think we have a duty to assist new members, not hand out poor advice.

 

 

I think we also have a duty to be polite and civilized to each other, and you are failing at it utterly.

 

I never advised anyone to throw away their wrenches and use the sticky ball for everything. I made an off-the-cuff comment and when you called me on it, I clarified that there are situations where the sticky ball is appropriate. In some situations, it works. I stand by that statement. It is factual.

 

Its not worth discussing further, you have your view, and I have mine, and i know which is correct.

 

We're not "discussing"--I am citing facts, and you are ranting like a crazed old man. I'm not relating a "view" or an opinion. I am describing reality.

 

There exist watches which are waterproof, which were closed with a sticky ball. I have dived with quite a few of them.

 

I'm not saying and I never said that you should stop using your wrenches. All I'm saying is that a sticky ball is nice to have around for situations like this. I have no idea why you have such a problem with this, but rest assured, you have convinced me not to spend any more money at your store. If that was your goal, congratulations.

[Ephry73]

I got to this post late. Some of the case backs I have from josh fit perfectly. The 1665 and alike are too fat for the 29.5(correct size by the way). I have not tried this on a yuki case back or anything else. The same tool fits fine on all of my other Rollies. The 16600,16660, 5514, 16800, 7032 and the DW Daytona. So it is definitely the case back itself. Try the sticky ball method and use even pressure and good lubed gasket. No dirt absolutely I always take my watches in the water. If I have to worry about it getting wet I don't need it or want it. Rep or gen

[offshore]

My final word.

I use the words "you can never be sure" And to that you agree.

You will never be sure if you use a sticky ball that you have created a seal 

So stop encouraging a practise which is faulty.

 

End.

 

Offshore

[sgtguk]

wOw guys     all this over some sticky balls............

[gavidoc]

I have used the following for all my reps AND my gens.

 

Ball of tape

Sticky Ball

Correct tool.

 

All have worked. With sufficient and correct gaskets (in caseback and crown) plus crystal replacement and proper application I have never had any fail (knock on wood) using a sticky ball or a ball of tape. Not as easy mind you but it can be done. I make a point though of insuring it doesn't happen by testing the watch without the dial/hands/movement FIRST in both a hot shower and a pool. If it doesn't leak, I put an indicating mark on the caseback and case with a sharpie. Once done, I install movement and reseal the watch making sure that the two indicator marks line up.

 

Sure, not as good as a water resistance vacuum chamber test  but I am confident that it will work fine with these:

 

 

I think the method of using a sticky ball will work fine for the 5513 the OP has.