danielv2000 Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 Just saw this on VRF. http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/thread/1364582566/Wtb-+dial+for+Calibre++1555-+Day+Date I think he's on the wrong forum! Yet, he's getting some positive responses! Goes to show you, the difference between "our" watches and "their" watches is disappearing. Vintage is a Franken game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 I agree. Seems like just yesterday when you were likely to get barred (speaking empirically) or, at least, issued a formal warning from a moderator for simply bridging the subject of frankens, let alone asking for help in constructing 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 maybe those guys have come to realize that they aren't going to be able to keep their watches in pristine, just like the day I got it, forever. Rolex isn't concerned about all the older watches, so folks have to scramble for parts, if you want to combine one gen case with a different dial, different movement, who cares, just as long s you have full disclosure when/if it's sold. That's no different than the guys who pull Red sub and DRSD dials and replace them with cheaper white letter dials, sell the watch, and then sell the dial, probably get more by selling separately than if the dial was on the watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 There's still a big difference between what they consider a franken and what we do. We don't use 100% genuine rolex parts, I haven't seen too many members here building them that way. I guess they have come a long way but imo it will be a long time before they allow talk of replica parts at all. I personally don't see anything wrong with building a watch. I would have no problem going over there with a 5513 for example and showing it off if it contained no replica parts at all. That is exactly what the vintage market has become, a place to buy parts or an entire watch that most likely has had at least one thing changed or replaced over its life. Don't kid yourselves, in the rare times that a real true original piece surfaces it is sucked up and vanishes into thin air, everything we have access to even on vrm is the leftovers and of the leftovers the better ones get sold faster than you can blink, Of course they sell parts to eachother to make complete watches, that's kind of the point. Rolex does not sell those parts anymore so a market was created to give everyone a safe place to continue to acquire the parts that they normally would have got new from rolex. Rolex raped everyone by taking our dials hands bezels inserts.. you name it, and replacing them for new ones, at least now we can get exactly what we want/need and can keep our parts to sell to someone else, and the cycle can continue. It's rather perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 Very good points. What you are saying is absolutely true. When a real pristine watch comes up for sale, I can guarantee you that whomever found it, if they don't want it will make a couple of phone calls or emails to their friends and it's gone!! Every guy that's been on the VRF for any amount of time knows what everyone else collects, If you find a wonderful Daytona, you call a Daytona guy, he gets first crack at it, and then on down the line. Very seldom, unless you are in the inner circle will you get a chance at a true 100% original, impeccable provenance watch. as you said, we get the leftovers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted March 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 I think that's exactly my point. The "inner circle" gets the real deal - 100% genuine original articles. After that, loose parts are gathered and cobbled together for the rest of us. You have to read between the lines there. Sometimes,it's disclosed as "correct hands and insert". To me, that means replaced with period correct. It's not clearly stated. Or my favorite, "this has a white dial but the serial is perfect for a red dial." I haven't issues with a true Franken - all gen parts assembled. But my guess, there are a few Phong cases sold regularly there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valty Posted March 30, 2013 Report Share Posted March 30, 2013 So funny to see a lot of the VRF / VRM members are from our forums... About the DD - Phong was used to deliver a 16000 genuine customized case if I trust my case And about the OP in the VRF post - I'm sure he read here - he should know he is not asking "a dial for a franken with 1555 cal.", but better a "white gold dial for 180X ref.", witch sound far better IMO Very hard to come with, BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flex Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 i'm sure you guys are aware..there are steel 1803s around..they were bulit in Rolex training school..usually bear no ref or serial between lugs...building 1 is costly and its probably cheaper to buy a YG 1803. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 I built my DD with the stainless case for less than an 1803 in YG. Phong modified the 16000 DJ case which wasn't cheap, dial was a lucky find and the movement ran about $1200 serviced. All told, it ran me $2300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valty Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 I built my DD with the stainless case for less than an 1803 in YG. Phong modified the 16000 DJ case which wasn't cheap, dial was a lucky find and the movement ran about $1200 serviced. All told, it ran me $2300. Your dial is a re-dial, right ? I hope you didn't paid too much for it - the printings looks very odd to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 yes, the dial is a re-dial. But it looks better in real life than in the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 I have a pic of Dowling's steel DD somewhere in my archives, so a few do exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted April 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Would love to see it, Freddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmj Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 @alligoat- that is a nice DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Would love to see it, Freddy. I would love to post the pic, but it is next to impossible to locate a particular pic in my archives, which consists of several gigs worth of pics I have collected since joining TZ in early '01. It came from TZ & I just did a search, but was unable to locate the original. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
correctime Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 @alligoat- that is a nice DD +1...that's an awesome looking DD Brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flex Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 I found JD's watch..and interest VRF comments that there should be half a dozen - since it is so rare, so to me it is even more cool O.E. (Login O.E.) VRF Emeritus 62.178.129.187 Re: There were about half a dozen made... February 17 2007, 2:09 AM This is a rumor with the half dozen....... The officially DD in steel had a common Ref.-Nr. (6512 with plain steel bezel and 6511 with WG bezel, so called "Rolesor White") and later 6611 and 6612 (again: AFAIK). Allegedly Rolex gave such watches every year to the best people from their watchmaker school as a gift, I don't know wich Ref.-Nr. and so on. These watches without any numbers on the case was used intern by Rolex technicans allegedly for testing the DD movements. So all this cases what are outside from the Rolex factory and to purchase, are stolen or not genuine. fumanku(Login fumanku) VRF Member 64.186.162.98 same story I heard.... January 17 2011, 10:58 AM I've examined SS day-date cases before. No serial or ref numbers, as they were "dummy" or test cases used internally. Not that cool imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Thanks mjmj and correctime. I love white dials and this is just a cool 'lowkey' watch. I've got it on a jubilee this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flex Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 thats very beatiful.. swap out a gen dial, it is golden. is the datewheel for yellow gold or just the picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted April 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 I would love to find a French day dial... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 "Seems like just yesterday when you were likely to get barred (speaking empirically) or, at least, issued a formal warning from a moderator for simply bridging the subject of frankens, let alone asking for help in constructing 1." Plus steam rolled, dry cleaned, gutted, nutted and bit-ch slapped. "There's still a big difference between what they consider a franken and what we do. ...imo it will be a long time before they allow talk of replica parts at all." I bet many VRF types have Frankensteins and do not know it or even suspect it...because they bought it from a 'Trusted Dealer' aka Watch Shark. At least I know what I have and did not pay a fortune. "Of course they sell parts to each other to make complete watches, that's kind of the point." Exactly. "I think that's exactly my point. The "inner circle" gets the real deal - 100% genuine original articles. After that, loose parts are gathered and cobbled together for the rest of us." Twenty years ago when I was going to a lot of NAWCC etc shows, all the good stuff got snatched up by 'Insider Dealers' before the shows opened to the Outsiders. It is still that way today...'Insiders' get the good stuff and 'Outsiders' get the crap. Clubby internet forums are the same way. "But my guess, there are a few Phong cases sold regularly there." Guar-an-dam-tee it. "So funny to see a lot of the VRF / VRM members are from our forums..." They stand out because they actually know something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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