watchfreund Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Dear all, I got my hands on one of the famous DW 6263 with the following specs: - DW David Wong base watch - Asymmetrical pusher layout - DW mystery movement (val23 clone?) - Clark crystal - Lightly aged case - Reamed lug holes - GEN 78350 bracelet Before someone sreams read first: Now I have already read a lot about this watch. But still do not know everything and need your help in some points. Also the search function is recently not working. Since the one day down time of the forum it seems like there is no search index. Maybe you have to push the rebuild button in the AdminCP? In the meantime I searched the forum with google. Goal: a short summary What I found with Google was not a real collection at some point only about the 6263 DW with the MM. So I will try to make this one a collection and always update this first post with your answer/experiences and of course mine. 1) The DW case David Wong offered different movement versions. What I read so far is that all cases are always the same (talking about asymmetrical pushers). There are no differences. Also the hight is always the same. If DW used an automatic movement he took away the rotor so the hight is always the same. Compared to the GEN the DW case is very well. The user lhooq made a very unique comparison of the DW case in the forum (http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/135463-dw-6263-vs-gen-daytona-photo-comparison-updated-731). Difference to the GEN are: - slightly higher crown and pusher positions on the gen - thinner mid-section than at the gen - the lug tips on the gen are wider (DW is too thick on the crown side and too thin on the right) - gen's black bezel insert is convex / DWs black bezel insert is not - wrong fonts and spacing on the DW black bezel insert Of course I will post pictures as soon as I have my watch in my hand. At the moment I do not know from which year it is or which batch. So far I know that there were some very good dials and some with some bad. Right? The case is always the same and very close to GEN though there were 3 generations? 2) The DW bracelet The user wiesn089 did an awesome comparison of all available options out there (http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/121576-78350-pictorial-6263-daytona-bracelet-options/). To make it simple: nothing beats the GEN 78350. The DW feels uncomfortably and the clasp won't close properly. In detail: - middle-links are not flexible - coronet is comically wrong and ugly - clasp doesn't close properly You can either get at Yuki but for some more dollars you get GEN with no flaws at all. I would go GEN. 3) The DW dial and hands - 4) The Mystery Movement - 5) Extended part list / Bringing it closer to the GEN At the end I and I assume the other readers want to get as close to GEN as possible - but in a good price range (no phong case or GEN movement). Here I want to sum up what can be done. If you have any experience please let us know. - The old 6263 had a domed crystal. Only serviced 6263 will have a beveled crystal. You can mount a Clark crystal but you need to make it fit to the DW bezel. But the base of the Clark crystal's dome is at a higher level than the GEN crystal. The Sternkreuz seems to be the more GEN like version. User lhooq made a very good comparison here (http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/112613-quick-photo-comparison-vintage-daytona-crystals/). The correct GEN crystal will be the Tropic 25-21. - Crown and tube should be exchanged to GEN as far is I found out. In terms of quality and reliability. The right part numbers for the crown and tube are 4-7030 & 24-703 (this equels a serviced 6263). First version had a 6mm Twinlock crown (24-600) and later the regular 7mm Triplock (24-700). - As mentioned above the DW bracelet can and should be exchanged to the GEN 78350 bracelet. - As mentioned above the DW black bezel insert is not convex as the GEN and typo and spacing is wrong. It can be improved by using an aftermarket bezel which fits just perfect. GEN bezels are over 1000 Dollar. You can see a very good comparison of two aftermarket bezels to DW here (http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/148589-6263-aftermarket-bezels-compared/). Recommended is the aftermarket bezel from an Ebay seller called WatchNY. His auction can be found here (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Vintage-Rolex-Daytona-Replacement-Bezel-6241-6263-Aftermarket-/280827710997?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4162a2ce15&clk_rvr_id=491792608716). Many users wrote that he will accept an offer for 180 Dollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchfreund Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Edited! This was posted way to early. Now I have everything in there I found out the last days and weeks. Looking forward to your feedback. - One missing part would be than the dial and/or hands. I found out that they are very expensive. And I do not even know if they fit? So: what would be the best and closest to GEN dial that can be mounted straight on the mystery movement. I think only black with white chrono dials and white with black chrono dials would be correct? What is a good source? Is there a comparison? - Also I need more information about the mystery movement. I want to sum this up here too. Any sources? Anybody exchanged it to a GEN VAL23? Thanks for reading and your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dropbear2008 Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 If this is Donerix' 6263 I would leave it as is. If you really want to go down the Franken avenue you should go with Phong and V72(6). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Mrs Ubi has an old DW with Mystery Movement: The movement can be swapped out with a Swiss V23, but not a V72 as the crown position is different between the two. If your MM is one of the few that is running well, I'd just leave the movement as-is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptTripps Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Edited! This was posted way to early. Now I have everything in there I found out the last days and weeks. Looking forward to your feedback. - One missing part would be than the dial and/or hands. I found out that they are very expensive. And I do not even know if they fit? So: what would be the best and closest to GEN dial that can be mounted straight on the mystery movement. I think only black with white chrono dials and white with black chrono dials would be correct? What is a good source? Is there a comparison? - Also I need more information about the mystery movement. I want to sum this up here too. Any sources? Anybody exchanged it to a GEN VAL23? Thanks for reading and your help You don't want a Val23...you want a Val72. (Pick me up a hen's tooth while you're there.) Seriously though, it's a blast to build. I would/will do mine much differently next time. (...and there WILL be a next-time!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchfreund Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 If this is Donerix' 6263 I would leave it as is. If you really want to go down the Franken avenue you should go with Phong and V72(6). Yes it is! Why would you not change anything on it? I think it could use a GEN crystal and GEN crown. Not sure about the dial yet. Mrs Ubi has an old DW with Mystery Movement: The movement can be swapped out with a Swiss V23, but not a V72 as the crown position is different between the two. If your MM is one of the few that is running well, I'd just leave the movement as-is. Thanks Ubi. Are there any how tos or guides to show the swap to the V23? I bought the 6263 with the MM from Donerix - I am excited. You don't want a Val23...you want a Val72. (Pick me up a hen's tooth while you're there.) Seriously though, it's a blast to build. I would/will do mine much differently next time. (...and there WILL be a next-time!) Ubi just said the Val72 wont fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Thanks Ubi. Are there any how tos or guides to show the swap to the V23? I bought the 6263 with the MM from Donerix - I am excited. If yours is the mystery movement then swapping the V23 is 1:1; one comes out and the other goes in The V72 won't fit becuase of the height of the movement; that 6:00 register adds some height. I love these rollies but i wont deal with DW to many problems. Also the DW mystery movt is just a normal 7750 with the rotor removed so you have to wind it. I dont think they make a copy Val 72. Good luck and post some pics when finished. No; true mystery movements are similar to a V23. Not quite a V23 but the closest thing to. Their origin is unknown, but with regards to function/layout/design, they emulate the V23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptTripps Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 No; true mystery movements are similar to a V23. Not quite a V23 but the closest thing to. Their origin is unknown, but with regards to function/layout/design, they emulate the V23. V23 or V72? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 V23; no 6:00 register on either Swiss V23 or the DW misery movement; the 6:00 hand is more or les glued on. For Mrs. Ubi... She's fine with that. But for V72, I'd recommend just starting from parts, not a base watch to convert/modify: http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/120135-daytona-6265-ubi-style/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptTripps Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 V23; no 6:00 register on either Swiss V23 or the DW misery movement; the 6:00 hand is more or les glued on. For Mrs. Ubi... She's fine with that. But for V72, I'd recommend just starting from parts, not a base watch to convert/modify: Gotcha! http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/120135-daytona-6265-ubi-style/ +1 for this approach. That's where I ended up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dropbear2008 Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Yes it is! Why would you not change anything on it? I think it could use a GEN crystal and GEN crown. Not sure about the dial yet. For most people Donerix's 6263 will look as gen as it get's. For the few Daytona fanatics even a gen crystal or crown won't make it appear more gen like as there are too many tells otherwise. Leave the 6263 as is and safe up for the big league if you are so inclined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchfreund Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 For most people Donerix's 6263 will look as gen as it get's. For the few Daytona fanatics even a gen crystal or crown won't make it appear more gen like as there are too many tells otherwise. Leave the 6263 as is and safe up for the big league if you are so inclined. Thanks. What are the other tells? I could not find that many? If that is so I will just keep this as a regular watch and start to build a phong based Franken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 I've got several mystery DW MMs sitting & collecting proverbial dust. None of them worked for more than a week. Maybe it's time to revisit cobbling up a V23 franken after all these years. I'm def. done making franken DW V72s (too much sacrifice for a tiny & less than enthralling end result IMO). But using making multiple V23 DW frankens out of all of my parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchfreund Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 I'm def. done making franken DW V72s (too much sacrifice for a tiny & less than enthralling end result IMO). Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephry73 Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 I am down for a serviced MM v23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Crude to say the least; a snapshot of the DW mystery movement. It looks rough... And most of them fail pretty quickly. This is one of the few exceptions I think (it helps that it's been serviced by Zig)... Been running strong for the last 7 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBOGH Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 I bought a 6263 from DW with MM a few years ago and the MM ran perfectly fine for the two years that I had it, kept great time too. Sometimes regret selling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Why? Scavenging a V72 from a vintage beauty is not for the faint of heart. My last build used a Zodiac dive chrono. Big mistake. And honestly it's a waste. I regtret it and I also regret selling off the V72 DW made with the Zodiac heart. I should have put the Zodiac back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxman Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Mrs Ubi has an old DW with Mystery Movement: The movement can be swapped out with a Swiss V23, but not a V72 as the crown position is different between the two. If your MM is one of the few that is running well, I'd just leave the movement as-is. Did I sell you that one?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxman Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Mine from back in the day .. Never could get use to the size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 Mine from back in the day .. Never could get use to the size I agree... Yes the size is too small! This was somewhat my point as to why the expense & hassle of making a DW V72 was simply not worth it for me. Very cool watch. Just too puny and small. I made 5 of them. Call me crazy. I went overboard. I tried 5x to love the watch. It just was too tiny on my wrist. I still have a MM 6263. Of course it doesn't run. I take it out of my safe every year and wear it around the house. It's lovely, but unwearable IMO for my 6.85" wrist (and my wrist isn't that big). This is a grail watch; and as such, everyone wants one. I was in the same boat--especially as an OEM vintage Rolex sportsmodel collector. I understand the mystique & attraction people have for vtg Daytona... Once you get one and wear it though... Your mind will probably change (unles you have girlie-sized wrists hahaha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 I see it from the opposite side. Anything over 40mm looks silly on my 7" wrist, which is why I love vintage Rolex (the sweet spot being between 36mm & 38mm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Freddy, I can appreciate your sentiments in regards to wrist sizing. I wore my 1675 for 20-25 years daily and it was/is perfectly suitable for my 6.85" wrist (same goes for my 5513). There is something 'diminutive' going on with the 62xx Daytonas on my wrist. Same with 1016 that I regrettably sold back in the early 90s for pennies. It also reminds me of how the IWC Mark XII and Marl XV fit with my wrist. They are gorgeous but somehow are just too small for me (still can't part with my Mark XV). The peculiar shape of the Daytona visually makes it appear even smaller than it is on me. I still can't figure out exactly what it is. Maybe I long for the original design to have come in 20mm lugs and 39mm-40mm case width? A more balanced overall ergonomic concept? This is all somehwat torture for me because vtg Rolex is still my favorite to this day! ***sorry, perhaps my posts here are a bit off-topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Yes it's a peculiar & wholly unreliable mov't! Might be worth servicing as I've got a pretty but dead DW MM 6265. Are these able to be serviced so that they can be relatively reliable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Yes it's a peculiar & wholly unreliable mov't! Might be worth servicing as I've got a pretty but dead DW MM 6265. Are these able to be serviced so that they can be relatively reliable? Ziggy has serviced these in the past, but it's the same old same old- there are no parts available, so if there's a problem, you're SOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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