preacher62 Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Hey guys! I know that this has been published but I just can't find it. I have the above mentioned watch in the DG 2813 version and want to put in a DG-3804B movement. I am an die hard ETA believer, but understand that the 3804B is a very good and reliable, purpose-built, GMT movement. I want to try it here...especially if the hands will work. I also have an orange GMT hand coming from Rafflestime. Question is...will the hands on the converted 2813 fit the DG 3804B? (BTW...the 2813 is keeping almost perfect time.) Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr573 Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 They don't do converted 2813's , if you buy a 21j GMT , it has the 3804 in it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacher62 Posted July 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Well, I wondered about that so I sent Josh and email asking if the 2813 was actually a 3804 and he wrote back and said, "No, it is as advertised on the website." Also, on Rafflestime website in the ad for the GMT hand for the 3804, he says that it will also fit a 2813. Confused. I just got the watch so I may just pull the movement and check it. There aren't any tells from the back side I think. You must look at the dial side to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr573 Posted July 25, 2013 Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 Well, I wondered about that so I sent Josh and email asking if the 2813 was actually a 3804 and he wrote back and said, "No, it is as advertised on the website." Also, on Rafflestime website in the ad for the GMT hand for the 3804, he says that it will also fit a 2813. Confused. I just got the watch so I may just pull the movement and check it. There aren't any tells from the back side I think. You must look at the dial side to tell. I dunno how they would turn a 2813 into a GMT movement, since it's a date only movement. The modification to a 2836 relies on the day mechanism being used to drive the 24 hour hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacher62 Posted July 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2013 I dunno how they would turn a 2813 into a GMT movement, since it's a date only movement. The modification to a 2836 relies on the day mechanism being used to drive the 24 hour hand. Thanks, TR. You are sure right about that. I just converted a 2846 to GMT using the parts from the Asian-made movement. I hadn't thought about it but it uses the day changing function to move the GMT hand. I will get to the bottom of this. I am looking at the back side and there are no tells from the 2813. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlf Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Any updates on this? As I'm having the same dilemma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 JoeyB can give you the answer, as he has used a bunch of 3804 movements in his GMT build. From what I remember from him, the hands are not the same on the ETA clones and the 3804, not sure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlf Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 (edited) Yeah did some research.. Dg2813 and dg 3804b are same, but gmt (2.00 gmt.) which 2813 doesn't have. And the pic from trusty website is Infact a dg3804 as i did a spot the difference from ofreis site pics, also where the hand sizes are listed, I didn't check 2836 etc.. (Unless the '2813' listed on TT looks exactly the same as another Chinese movement, after all I'm no expert!) I've already asked Joey a million questions lol cheers panerai153 Edited October 2, 2013 by Dlf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 The 21j movements, DG3804B and DG2813 use the same size hands. The ETA use different size hour, minute and second hands. The GMT hand is the same for both in most cases. I have seen a larger GMT pinion on ETA movements, but that was a while ago. Rafflestime has all the hands for all the movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 "I dunno how they would turn a 2813 into a GMT movement, since it's a date only movement." The DG 2812 day/date movement was used in earlier GMT models that had non adjustable 24 hour hands. They did basically the same thing to convert them as was done to Eta day/date movements with non adjustable 24 hour hands. Do not know if 2812 GMT conversions were factory made or 'back room' made. They are reliable as long as the movement is clean and properly oiled to begin with. The swiss Eta 2836/46 non adjustable GMT conversions are dead nuts reliable as long as they are properly c/o. Non adjustable 24 hour hand movements are more realistic to vintage models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Non adjustable 24 hour hand movements are more realistic to vintage models. Yes, as is non-hacking and non quick-set date. Those modern conveniences are a pain to live without, especially for daily wear. . I have two 6542s, one an ETA 2846 and the other a DG3804B. Both rum remarkably accurate. The ETA is non-hacking, but is the current mod with adjustable GMT hand and quick-set date. The DG is hacking, and all the rest. Both are slow-beat. I wear the DG daily. Everyone chooses for themselves just how realistic they want their watch to be. For me, I have no intent to sell my watches, or try to pass them off as genuine to anyone who asks (no one asks). And as I've said before, the only one who gets close enough to see if my watch is hacking, quick-set or GMT adjustable is not there to look at my watch. At that point thank goodness she is there for other reasons. It only matters to the owner of the watch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacher62 Posted October 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Yes, as is non-hacking and non quick-set date. Those modern conveniences are a pain to live without, especially for daily wear. . I have two 6542s, one an ETA 2846 and the other a DG3804B. Both rum remarkably accurate. The ETA is non-hacking, but is the current mod with adjustable GMT hand and quick-set date. The DG is hacking, and all the rest. Both are slow-beat. I wear the DG daily. Everyone chooses for themselves just how realistic they want their watch to be. For me, I have no intent to sell my watches, or try to pass them off as genuine to anyone who asks (no one asks). And as I've said before, the only one who gets close enough to see if my watch is hacking, quick-set or GMT adjustable is not there to look at my watch. At that point thank goodness she is there for other reasons. It only matters to the owner of the watch.Thanks for that JoeyB. With all the talk of realism (and I am obsessive, as well) I have never had anyone ask me if a watch is real, to take off my watch, does it hack, is it quick-set, what is the BPH, does it have a Rolex movement, is that a gen insert, where did you get that ugly pearl, or any such thing. I don't think 99% of the people pay any attention to the watch that I am wearing. Watches are my hobby, but we shouldn't think that they are everyone else's passion also.Most probably would think we are silly for doing what we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapman57 Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Everyone chooses for themselves just how realistic they want their watch to be. For me, I have no intent to sell my watches, or try to pass them off as genuine to anyone who asks (no one asks). And as I've said before, the only one who gets close enough to see if my watch is hacking, quick-set or GMT adjustable is not there to look at my watch. At that point thank goodness she is there for other reasons. It only matters to the owner of the watch. What a wonderful quote.......... Thanks also for the movement education! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 In fairness. I am 62 years old, drive a Mercedes, and my position would intimidate anyone thinking of questioning my watch. I do get many compliments on my watches, especially the 6542 and 1675, but the 16710 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr573 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 "I dunno how they would turn a 2813 into a GMT movement, since it's a date only movement." The DG 2812 day/date movement was used in earlier GMT models that had non adjustable 24 hour hands. They did basically the same thing to convert them as was done to Eta day/date movements with non adjustable 24 hour hands. Do not know if 2812 GMT conversions were factory made or 'back room' made. They are reliable as long as the movement is clean and properly oiled to begin with. The swiss Eta 2836/46 non adjustable GMT conversions are dead nuts reliable as long as they are properly c/o. Non adjustable 24 hour hand movements are more realistic to vintage models. Yeah, but that's a 2812 D/D not a 2813D only. Previous poster was saying Josh was insisting it was a 2813 in the watch, which clearly it cannot be :-) Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolFF-1 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 i just got one of these from andrew at TT, i asked him before i got it , if it was the DG 2813 version or the DG-3804B movement. he told me "it was the GMT version. but we call it the 2813", so maybe they just refer to it as the 2813. though it is the 3804b... also i cant see them converting a 2813 to gmt, when for pretty much the same cost they can just put in the 3804. i think its just a marketing/advertising error. mine keeps really good time too, just a few seconds off a day. my question is, does your gmt hand look red to you? i thought it would be more orange, kinda closer to the new 216570. does the raffles one look more orange than red ? did you ever get the raffles one and put it in? which one did you end up ordering ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 The Rafflestime small GMT arrow was a joint work by yours truly and Ken. He has the hand to fit. Just tell him what movement you are using. The color looks right to me! A little 'orange' to the red. I'd recommend that all of our members mention RWG when contacting Ken at Rafflestime. He likes us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneed12 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 They don't do converted 2813's , if you buy a 21j GMT , it has the 3804 in it already. A 3804 IS a converted 2813. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneed12 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 I dunno how they would turn a 2813 into a GMT movement, since it's a date only movement. The modification to a 2836 relies on the day mechanism being used to drive the 24 hour hand. No, it uses the calendar drive wheel, which is present on both the 2824 and 2836. It's a slightly different part (on the 2824 it's integrated into the calendar plate cover thing while on the 2836 it fits on the mainplate itself) but there's no conceptual reason why you couldn't easily build a 2824 with GMT function in exactly the same way that the 2836 GMT works. The day changing function is needed to adjust the hour hand though, so it would be non-adjustable if you did this on a 2824 unless you install the 2836 style double corrector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr573 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 A 3804 IS a converted 2813. Is it the same base movement design with a modified mainplate and keyless? I did not realize that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Is it the same base movement design with a modified mainplate and keyless? I did not realize that. They are designed by the same manufacturer. They likely use the base and design it to be a GMT. It's not converted, as the ETA2836-2 is, but designed to be, and made from the factory as a GMT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneed12 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 They are designed by the same manufacturer. They likely use the base and design it to be a GMT. It's not converted, as the ETA2836-2 is, but designed to be, and made from the factory as a GMT. Yep. And in some ways, it's done better--the GMT wheel sits under a retaining plate, for example, so there's no issues with it lifting slightly and losing contact with its driving gear. However, in terms of concept, it's exactly the same--it's an additional wheel that sits on top of a movement which was not originally designed to have it, driven by the wheel that drives the calendar mechanism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Which is, of course, what Rolex did 60 years ago. And since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolFF-1 Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Thanks JoeyB Ok so about the raffles gmt hand. Which one do you order for the 1655 21j that's from trusty time and josh. Is it the 2813 or the 3804 ? Like what's the difference between the 2804 and 2813 gmt hand. Wouldn't they technically be the same size ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 It would be the same hand. Just tell Ken you need the small GMT hand for the DG movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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