alt.watch.obsessive Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I have a Phong 1665 case that is close to watertight, but not quite. I installed an aftermarket 702 crown and tube with two tight gaskets in the tube, one in the crown, and one between the tube and case (I did not use any glue between the tube and case). I also installed a Clark crystal with gen Rolex retaining ring and a gasket between the ring and the case. This all seemed nice and tight, both between the crystal and rehaut and crystal and retaining ring. There is no gasket between the crystal and rehaut, which I believe is correct. Caseback has a new gasket and shouldn't be a problem. I am suspicious of the HEV. The seller of the case did not disclose this, but I found the sales thread where he bought it and it said it had a Yuki HEV (I think I have this correct). I cannot see what keeps the HEV sealed. There is a spring pulling it into the case. Are there gaskets in there to make the seal tight? Any advice would be appreciated--particularly if others have been able to get these cases watertight. I am going to put a piece of tissue paper in the case and submerge it to see if I can see where the moisture first enters the case. I am not opposed to gluing the HEV . Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Have you had it tested? Was it a wet test? If so where did it leak from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionsandtigers Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 there is a gasket behind the head of the hev that should seal the case. could be a bad gasket, or not there at all. easy to replace if thats the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt.watch.obsessive Posted January 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Thanks guys. First order of business will be to see if the HEV has a gasket in there. It was a wet test--specifically an hour in a water glass Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraggle42 Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I think by a wet test FxrAndy means a proper positive (high) pressure test in a proper WR tester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Yes there's supposed to be a small o-ring around that "pin" that makes the valve. Also check the tube threads where it screws into the case. Loctite is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt.watch.obsessive Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Is it too much to ask that I be able to put together one watch without glue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Think of the Loctite as something to hold the tube in without having to over torque it. Presto, it's not glue it's a liquid tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Thanks guys. First order of business will be to see if the HEV has a gasket in there. It was a wet test--specifically an hour in a water glass Cheers. well get it tested propperly and then you will knw for sure where the leak is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 If a deep water watch case (this 1665 for instance) is made to oem specs and the fit and finish are up to oem standards...it will seal same as a genuine watch. But only if: 1...The case tube is oem spec or genuine in good condition with a genuine spec gasket between the tube and case along with proper O rings inside the tube. 2...The case tube must be properly installed. The official rolex instructions say "Grease slightly the thread of the tube with silicone grease, rolex reference 2909 or grease, KT-22 ref 2907". No loctite, no glue. 3...The crown must be genuine and in good condition with a good oem spec gasket in the cap. 4...The crystal must be genuine or oem spec and the case neck must have NO dents, corrosion, or scratches. 5...The crystal retaining bezel must be a proper fit over the crystal. No glue etc. 6...You must have a feel for the 'proper fit'...not too loose and not too tight. 7...Check for crazing on the crystal skirt between the case neck and crystal retaining ring with a bright light and 10x loupe after installation. 8...The case back must fit properly and have an oem spec gasket in good condition...properly lubricated. 9...The HEV valve and gasket must be in good condition and have a proper retaining spring. If the spring is too weak, water will leak into the case under low pressure conditions...washing hands, in shallow water etc. In deep water, outside pressure seals the gasket to the case. 10...The gasket seat on the outside of the case must be cut to spec and relatively smooth so the O ring will seal against it. 11...There are no shortcuts. I understand that reality has a way of creeping onto these projects so I usually lower my expectations of water resistance to maybe an actual 30M or so in a wet tester (without the movement!). This will allow the watch to be fine for everyday wear. Leaks usually come from crystals and case tubes/crowns. HEV valves are another problem and on project watches with a valve, I usually make another valve out of 316L stainless rod and machine the shaft slightly oversize so it will be a press fit into the case and not have to depend on the spring. The O ring gasket is used same as originally intended but you must be careful not to press the valve in too far and flatten the gasket. I do not cut a retainer spring groove on the valve and make it just long enough to barely pass through to the inside of the case. So far they all have worked fine with no leaks. To remove the pressed in valve, you remove the movement and drive the valve out from the inside. If it gets stuck, pull it out from the outside with a forked tool same as pulling a nail with a claw hammer. It is a good idea to pad the claw tool to keep from scratching the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt.watch.obsessive Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Thanks all! I'm joking about the Loctite, although I did harbor childlike dreams of doing it to gen spec for once Once I get it watertight in my simple home tests I will have it properly pressure tested. This is a project with a gen dial and 1575, so I want to get everything as finished as possible before taking it to my watchmaker. He does a lot of work on Rolex watches, but I doubt he has much experience with 1665s and probably none with Phong cases. This is my first experience with a proper HEV. It does seem like it is most vulnerable when submerged at low rather than high pressure. Clever bit of engineering. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 well you keep on with your home tests untill you flood it and then take it to your watchmaker for an expencive clean, a presure test is safe, dunking it in a glass of water is not and will not prove anything apart from that it leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt.watch.obsessive Posted January 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Just so we're clear, the case is empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraggle42 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 The really great thing about a proper pressure test is the inside of the watch case is pressurised with air, so when it's put into the water the air escapes outwards and its easy to see the stream of little bubbles that are coming out, and as they are coming out its easy to see where they're coming from and hence where the weak point in the water resistance is. You can also vary the pressure, so can use just a little bit of extra pressure to find those leaks that occur in shallow depths, and then whack it up to the max pressure of the tester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt.watch.obsessive Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Bent the spring to increase the tension and greased the gasket. Seems to be holding up now just fine so at least there is hope at pressure. Off to the watchmaker for a proper test and assembly. Gen spec thus far preserved! Thanks again for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Congratulations!<br /><br />Flip side of the coin, mine IS gen and it leaks like a sieve. Where the crystal fits over the rehaut about the 4:30 position there's a huge stream of bubbles in the tester. This is because I went with an old, probably brittle, but genuine Superdome T39 crystal and it won't seal to the case anymore.<br /><br />All's the better though, now I'm not tempted to let it get wet. If you're using a vintage crystal that might be your trouble too.<br /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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