Sec@ 12 Modification info?

[panerai153]

Asking the experts here, as I haven't been able to find out anything definitive about this using search. My first question which seems to come up on other threads is this, does the newer 7750 sec@12 come from the factory with a jewel(s) modification? Also, when approximately did the factory begin using the modified movement in ROO's?   Is the factory mod good enough, or is it just a "band aid" on the problem? And finally is their anyone in the USA doing the jewel mods on the 7750 ROO movement. I know Domi in France does a multi jewel mod (I believe), but I'm a little concerned about shipping  rep.watches back and forth from the USA to the EU and back. Reason I'm asking is I have a RGRC that I recently purchased from another member on RepGeek, who originally purchased on RWG. He's pretty vague about the service history, said it was "Serviced" but was done by the previous owner.I also have a White face RC that's incoming and the owner sold it to me at a reduced price as it has a short (12-24 hour) Power reserve when off the wrist, and that indicates to me that its going to need a service. So I will be looking at a service for one for sure and possibly the other at some point.
Thanks all

[Mike on a bike]

Read the new A7750 still same old in regard, somewhere here. ......................

[SSTEEL]

No extra jewels, its a band aid fix, they simply used skeleton gearing to reduce friction.

[sputim]

Great for the info since I am considering buying an ap roo in the near future. I guess I will send it to domi for ar work and jewel mod btw isn't domi located in Germany and not France?

[markiemark]

Great for the info since I am considering buying an ap roo in the near future. I guess I will send it to domi for ar work and jewel mod btw isn't domi located in Germany and not France?

Germany it is!

[panerai153]

Anyone here in the CONUS doing the jewel modification. Might be difficult to ship directly to Domi in Germany from the USA, not sure how German customs are, but was told that they are pretty thorough looking through packages from outside the EU?

[Mike on a bike]

Heard the same ........................

[markiemark]

Send it to a friend in the UK, and let him ship it to Germany?

[sputim]

Anyone here in the CONUS doing the jewel modification. Might be difficult to ship directly to Domi in Germany from the USA, not sure how German customs are, but was told that they are pretty thorough looking through packages from outside the EU?

Jop Germany is very very tough to get stuff through! Best would be to have someone from UK to drop watch to a uk member and have it forwarded to domi. His turnaround time is quite a bit but what I heard it's worth the time I guess you know a stand up UK member who would do this for you

[panerai153]

It would be nice if someone in the UK was willing to do the drop shipping. Although it would be  some trouble, as they would have to receive the package from the USA, and then take it to the PO and re ship. What would help if the sender had the watch in a box with Domi's address, as well as a return address of the shipper in UK. this box could be put inside another box addressed to the person in the UK,. All they would have to do is open the outer box and the inner box is ready to ship. Send the shipper a PayPal for his time and  postage to Germany. I wouldn't be worried about shipping back to the USA.

 

I just got a quote for a sec @ 12 movement  clean and service that is only a stripdown, clean oil and regulate, no mods at all, 250.00 USD. I know that this is a PITA movement to work on, so I suppose this price is justified, but spending all that and not getting the extra jewels seems like an expensive temporary fix. Why don't some of the watch repair guys on the forum learn how to do the jewel mod? It would be a great service to the members here on this side of the pond.

[Mike on a bike]

Ouch $250, not a small amount but since these are not a movement most relish working on ......................

[panerai153]

Ouch $250, not a small amount but since these are not a movement most relish working on ......................

Yeah, and that's just a strip, clean, oil and regulate, no graphite, jewel mods, etc. So basically what you have now is a fresh clean, oiled time bomb instead of a dirty time bomb.

[markiemark]

So basically a working ROO costs around 1k?!

(ROO + service + mod + shipping)

[RBT1680]

Don't forget gen strap $600+

[sardonix]

They are a litlle overpriced for what you get compared to other reps.

Including all the extra needs

But they are nice but everything has a limit for me

[panerai153]

Thus far I have purchased 4 AP's all from forum members, and at somewhat of a discount, considering that they are all going to need service, if you can get a gently used one for 100-200 USD less than the dealers want, you are that much ahead. I agree that you will have a pretty significant investment in them after you do the service and mods. And that isn't even scratching the surface if you go the franken route with a gen spec movement, gen dial, hands, case work, AR and lume!! Now you are talking big bucks. But that's not novel to AP Roo's, I have a DRSD that I have over 3400 USD in and I bought the unmodded  watch from another member who went all gens for 150.00 USD all the rest was parts and service.

 

Another alternative is to haunt the sales forums and pick up one that someone has done most of the mods, usually these sell at a considerable discount based on the total amount the owner has invested in the watch.

 

One of the nice things about Reps, you can wear them straight out the box and for lots of folks that's fine, or you can do a few things like a service, AR, lume and stop there, or you can go whole hog and end up with a watch that's practically all genuine. Completely depends on what you want and how much you can afford.

[RBT1680]

Panerai153,

Well said. I have been cruising the sales forums for some time now and when a ROO pops up its usually too late. I keep going back and forth about them. Not too sure which theme to go with, I'll probably let the sales posting be the deciding factor.

I got into the rep game for the sake of getting an AP ROO but settled for Pam's as they were a little more accessible. I built a 6154 that I was certain would be it for me, but now I'm debating letting it go for a ROO.

Crazy hobby this is!

[dutchguy2]

I have my Chronopassion currently at Domi for the mod. Can't wait to get it back. Turnarround time is about 10 weeks.

Don't know if someone in the USA is doing this or anykind of mod.

[Paneriwc321]

Hi Guys,

 

about to buy an ROO CP too... can one of you tell me how much you have paid for a jewel mod?

 

Oh and, say for instance, I would not add a mod, just let it be serviced once every 18 months, what would be the life expectancy of the sec@12 movement? And what happens to it when the timer of this time bomb has ticked out? Could the movement still be saved or is it totalled?

 

Sorry for the many Questions, but before i spend $600+ on a watch, I think it would be good to be informed into what im getting into

 

 

Thanks!

[panerai153]

Hi Guys,

about to buy an ROO CP too... can one of you tell me how much you have paid for a jewel mod?

Oh and, say for instance, I would not add a mod, just let it be serviced once every 18 months, what would be the life expectancy of the sec@12 movement? And what happens to it when the timer of this time bomb has ticked out? Could the movement still be saved or is it totalled?

Sorry for the many Questions, but before i spend $600+ on a watch, I think it would be good to be informed into what im getting into

Thanks![/quote

First, lots of folks here have sec@12 movements that seem to work pretty reliably from the onset, and they ever have a problem. However if it starts to get cranky, power reserve falls off, starts to lose/ gain time, then it's going to need a service. And a good service is not cheap.

So the next question is, who do you send it to? Well, it depends on where you are as to who you send it to. The guys in the EU are very fortunate to have Domi, who does exceptional work. Here in the USA, the only person I would send one to now is Vac. Let me tell you why only Vac. First off, most of the watch guys here will not touch a modified A7750 movement, at least the two guys that I use regularly won't fool with them. Because of that, reason, I decided to send my RC white dial to a watch repair person that is on one of the other forums. He assured me that he has worked on lots of A7750's.this was the 250.00 USD quote. I sent him my watch months ago. He was very good with correspondence, and from his reputation, it seemed like he has lots of satisfied customers. Well, after a few weeks, he emailed me that my watch was ready. I got it back, and it was DOA. It would run for a few minutes and stop. The winding mechanism sounded like a cement mixer! I promptly emailed him and he was very apologetic, Told me to send the watch back and he would get it sorted out and get it back to me in a couple of weeks. Sent it back, and sure enough, in a couple of weeks, it was sent back to me. Same story, I tried swirling it to get it started, it would run for a minute or two and stop. I tried to carefully wind it, this time it didn't sound like it was grinding up rocks, it made no sound, and their was no resistance when I turned the crown, like it was not connected to anything. Emailed him again, sent it back, and it's been with him now for well over a month. I emailed him a week ago, and he told me that he had replaced the auto wind mechanism, and he would get it back in a few days. Haven't heard from him since. I have no doubt that I will have to end up sending it to Vac when I get it back,which is what I should have done in the first place. So having learned my lesson the hard way,I will only use Vac for AP work from now on. He isn't cheap, and plan on months not weeks without your watch, but I believe that he knows his way around the A7750 ROO movements, and that's what counts in the long run.

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[Legend]

Asking the experts here, as I haven't been able to find out anything definitive about this using search. My first question which seems to come up on other threads is this, does the newer 7750 sec@12 come from the factory with a jewel(s) modification? Also, when approximately did the factory begin using the modified movement in ROO's?   Is the factory mod good enough, or is it just a "band aid" on the problem? And finally is their anyone in the USA doing the jewel mods on the 7750 ROO movement. I know Domi in France does a multi jewel mod (I believe), but I'm a little concerned about shipping  rep.watches back and forth from the USA to the EU and back. Reason I'm asking is I have a RGRC that I recently purchased from another member on RepGeek, who originally purchased on RWG. He's pretty vague about the service history, said it was "Serviced" but was done by the previous owner.I also have a White face RC that's incoming and the owner sold it to me at a reduced price as it has a short (12-24 hour) Power reserve when off the wrist, and that indicates to me that its going to need a service. So I will be looking at a service for one for sure and possibly the other at some point.

Thanks all

Hey Big A, 

 

am no expert but here you go, some answers:

 

1.  does the newer 7750 sec@12 come from the factory with a jewel(s) modification? Also, when approximately did the factory begin using the modified movement in ROO's?

Apparently, there are some improvements made to the ROO sec@12 movement recently. Not extra jewels, but the friction issue encountered in using 3 transfer gears is alleviated by the use of washers. This started in late 2012. The rule of thumb is: If your ROO came with rounded pushers from the factory, it probably would have a "newer" movement.

 

2. Is the factory mod good enough, or is it just a "band aid" on the problem? And finally is their anyone in the USA doing the jewel mods on the 7750 ROO movement.

So far, the newer movements have held up in my watches. Or perhaps, they are still too new to be failing. I know Domi in Germany (not France) and Goin in Taiwan are doing the extra jewel mods. 

 

3. The "extra jewels" mod has proven to be reliable so far, and I personally have yet to see one fail. Essentially, the A7750@12 movement is a modified one and does not seem efficient to me with the 3 extra transfer gears involved. Until a clone of the LWO283 movement has been developed, I guess the extra jewel mod would be a semi-permanent solution to the movement issues. 

[panerai153]

Hi Mr A

I will certainly defer to you when it comes to the A7750 movement. I have three AP ROO's with the sec@12. I bought all of mine M2M, two are fine, the third is the one that has been the source of all the problems. Mine are probably post 2012, outside of the Rose Gold RC which is the older dial design. Not sure when the rep manufacturers discontinued those and came out with the new model.both it and my Safari run fine.

AFA the jewel mod, I agree with you, it's certainly better than nothing, and more than likely improves the reliability of the movement. The single jewel mod that some are doing is probably not as good as the 3 jewel mod, but I certainly don't have enough knowledge of or experience with this movement to say. I believe that Vac is doing a jewel mod, not sure how many. I believe Domi does a 3 jewel mod. This is what I've read on the forums, but I'm not sure.

You are correct, the only way to really solve this problem is for the rep makers to clone a movement that is designed as a sec@12 movement, or at least a module that can be attached to an Asian movement.

This is not just an AP problem, the folks over on the Rolex forum have the same complaints about the sec@6 modified movements that power the Rolex Daytonas with the sec@6.

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[Legend]

Hi Mr A

I will certainly defer to you when it comes to the A7750 movement. I have three AP ROO's with the sec@12. I bought all of mine M2M, two are fine, the third is the one that has been the source of all the problems. Mine are probably post 2012, outside of the Rose Gold RC which is the older dial design. Not sure when the rep manufacturers discontinued those and came out with the new model.both it and my Safari run fine.

AFA the jewel mod, I agree with you, it's certainly better than nothing, and more than likely improves the reliability of the movement. The single jewel mod that some are doing is probably not as good as the 3 jewel mod, but I certainly don't have enough knowledge of or experience with this movement to say. I believe that Vac is doing a jewel mod, not sure how many. I believe Domi does a 3 jewel mod. This is what I've read on the forums, but I'm not sure.

You are correct, the only way to really solve this problem is for the rep makers to clone a movement that is designed as a sec@12 movement, or at least a module that can be attached to an Asian movement.

This is not just an AP problem, the folks over on the Rolex forum have the same complaints about the sec@6 modified movements that power the Rolex Daytonas with the sec@6.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We learn together my friend. My watchsmith recently opened up a 44mm ROO (meaning movement in a very recent batch) and commented that the movement has improved due to the friction reduction measures taken. I have not had an A7750 sec@12 die or even stutter on me in recent memory, even when unserviced. The 3 jewels mod is done by Domi and I have a watch that is using that movement.. In terms of accuracy of keeping time and power reserve, it is very good. +2sec/day and at least 46hrs. I do not know if the power reserve is affected by the jewels mod or not, but the movement is one of the sweetest ever.

 

Anytime you have a question which you think I could help, you know where to find me mate. I am occasionally useful when sober.  

[Paneriwc321]

 

@panerai153 Thank you for your insight into what you have experienced, and I empathise with the difficulty you have encountered with your RC! I sure will go with Domi then, but how to contact him?