GenTLe Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) Ok, so I got this clone A2836 GMT II. A spare movement. I decided to try on it my first service task. Sorry I didn't start taking pictures of the hands, dial and rotor removal... 1) once I took out the rotor, the next step is the auto winding bridge: This is the movement once the autowind parts have been removed (the ratchet wheel is not damaged like it seems on this pic, that one is a kind of reflex...) 2) took away the barrel bridge, balance bridge with balance and the train wheels bridge. Clearly visible the pallet fork (under the pallet bridge) in the lower part, the escape wheel, the intermediate wheel at top center and, upside down in the center, the cannon pinion with driving wheel Note: here I nearly did a disaster: I completely forgot to operate on the click to release the mainspring force and, when I removed the barrel bridge, it nearly "exploded" and started spinning on the table like crazy 3) lower side part now fully unassembled: 4) movement rotated and let's start to work on the GMT, date wheel and keyless: 5) All is gone, except the keyless levers: 6) ok, now ALL is gone 7) the result: Had to say that I learned that proper tools, even apparently simple stuff like the pliers, MAKE a BIG difference, when they are quality ones!!! The toolkit and other things I had from RWGShop in this sense helped me quite a lot About the caliber: it was inside a BP GMT2 rollie. IT was actually lubricated, but all with the same oil and sometimes over-oiled (like below the cannon pinion) Lubrification and reassembly at next episode Edited August 10, 2014 by GenTLe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) Right, that's the easy bit done. Now those little red shock jewels (there are to in each setting) have to come out How are you intending on cleaning all that? Good luck. Edited August 10, 2014 by ceejay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Uhm, jewels normally don't need to come out (ok, we can discuss about the balance arbor ones): you clean the plate with them on and in case of gummy deposit you use a sharpened peg wood stick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Shock jewels my friend. They have to come out, be cleaned and lubricated before going back in. There's a set in the main plate and a set on the balance c ock. Discuss it later if you wish but get used to doing it...it's very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Ah, yes, those 2 ones. I know they're important I'm leaving them as last thing... Because I'm scared to mess up with them and the incablock (on the plate) or the classic one on the balance wheel (and even more about the hair spring!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezio Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 Good job mate welcome to the World of movements its gonna be a bumpy ride haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Well done. Now the fun begins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Ok, finally yesterday I found in my office a nice box from CousinsUK waiting for me. I got my oils and my greases, so in the evening I started to work again on this movement Firtst a shot of the low cost solution I've found to keep my pieces, it's done by a capped Tupperware-like container, that can be properly closed to keep the dust out, and a silicone cake mold (the ones that can be placed in the oven), which has the advantage to not release any debris and also to make the smallest parts not to be "eaten" by textile weft: Here it's a bit full because there're 2 movements inside (part of the second is in the black container). About the reassemble: well, I took 2 full hours to just clean, rinse, dry, oil and reassemble the damn keyless levers and the balance plate jewels. It's not that difficult... Once you got how the things have to be put in place Surely a lot of patience and very firm hand are need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 That's quite a bit of lubrication you have on your keyless there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netniet Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Excellent post. Good reference for the movement noobs like me. Did you use a tech sheet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Well it's back together and nothing appears to be broken or lost...well done Are you using oil (looks like oil) on the keyless parts? If so what type? And the balance jewels? Keep it coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Excellent post. Good reference for the movement noobs like me. Did you use a tech sheet? Yep, from eta web site, in the technical documentation. Plus the web Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Well it's back together and nothing appears to be broken or lost...well done Are you using oil (looks like oil) on the keyless parts? If so what type? And the balance jewels? Keep it coming! It is red oil HP1300 on the slow parts and Moebius 9010 for balance and other fast parts. Then there are other two different ones for the pallet stones and the friction of the center wheel pinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Sounds good, 9145 on the pallets I prefer a grease on the keyless 9501 (being blue you can see better where it is) but the hp1300 will do I go 9010 on the barrel arbour and centre wheel pinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 CJ, i'm basically following completely the ETA oiling chart This eve I assembled the train gears and the winding bridge. Can't upload pictures now as I'm on EDGE connection right now and it'll take 1 hour or so . Ah... Had bad time when the bloody click spring flew away... I searched and searched and in the end it was just below one of the gears of the movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Tip: when you work on springs, get a clear plastic bag big enough to put the movement and your hands in and do it inside the bag until you get confident with them. It saves a lot of grief searching around on your hand and knees! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Good one this of the plastic bag, have to find some transparent enough! So, in this episode I reinstalled the train gears and bridge and the winding bridge. 1) up the train gears! They run smoothly (the inertia is really low as they are very light) View My Video 2) winding bridge mechanism: A detail of the stop lever: The click and its spring that made me to pass some bad moments when it decided to fly away... Search and search and, in the end, it was still on the movement, just hidden between the train gears wheels... 3) winding bridge fully assembled. I'll have probably to remove it again as I noticed that there is probably a gear of the barrel that has some dirt or something inside that is making the wheels not to run properly fluently at one point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Of course next time you tear this movement down you will be servicing that mainspring also Keep it coming, your doing well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 CJ, i'm basically following completely the ETA oiling chart ETA tells you were to oil. Not how much. You are over lubricating. You are on the right track and practice makes king. Keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Thanks Rolexman, any advise from experienced like you are really appreciated!! May I ask you to give a look to the other topic I opened right now in this same area? I did the typical "niubbata" (Italianization that means "somthing only a newbie can do"). Thanks!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Ah, and once the movement will be finished, what are the symptoms of an overoiling? Slow watch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Yes, and stopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted August 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) Ok, Will see then, and if so, let's do it again and practice The fact is that's really hard, even with the 20x loupe, to get if the microdrop of oil on the thin oiler effectively went on the stone or not. And if you can see a proper (still speaking about ~2mm) drop on the oiler, then surely it's too much... Ah, Mickey, what do you do with the reverse gears of the autowind bridge? These ones (27 & 28 var): I mean that in ETA charts they claims to avoid washing them and to replace if they're dirty. Since the asian ones comes with no oil from the beginning, there's not reason not to wash them (there's no risk to wash away the gen oil ). But how do you oil them later? I did this way: I washed them into a mixture of ~20ml of trichloroethylene (which is the base of many last rinse liquids) with 3 or 4 drops of (fresh) engine oil diluted inside. Then when the rinse was evaporated (less than 1 minute) I put a little drop of HP1300 in one of the holes of the gears. Not sure if it's a proper way... Edited August 21, 2014 by GenTLe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted September 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) Ok guys, as some expert made me to notice, I had put too much oil, at the 1st re-assemble. Plus I had to wait the delivery of an incabloc top jewel that I lost as a very newbie, so the task stopped for around 2 weeks. Many many thanks to the member misiekped that sent me a couple of them for free from USA!!! Then this weekend I restarted again And when I write "restarted" I mean that I throw away all my previous job and started back from the fully unassembled movement, trying to oil it properly, this time. So, here there is my tray with all parts already cleaned and divided as from the ETA assembly/oil charts pages: Here the plate, clean and ready to start getting pieces: The stem and its 2 gears are up (note the very end of the stem appearing next to the main spring barrel insertion place): After the plate has been overturned, the incabloc bottom jewel (also disassembled, cleaned and oiled) and the keyless have been added: Up the gear train, from the left you can see the center (or 2nd) wheel, the 3rd wheel, 4th wheel (in the center of the watch, driving the seconds hand) and the escape wheel: Here with the train gear bridge assembled: And up also the winding bridge. This time I started to properly managing the art of refitting the micro-spring of the click so no curses You can also see, on the right, the pallet fork just in place with the plate pivot in its jewel: On the lower part, the pallet fork bridge has been added (a bit out of focus): Up the balance wheel (it started to move right away with that really minimum force the main spring had in it: like 1 click jump of charge... ), but still no incablock in it, since it was out to get oiled: Incabloc refitted: On a side, this is the autowinding bridge during assemble: How the plate (dial side) looks like when all the other side has been assembled: The dial train and date setting mechanisms are now up: Here again the dial train and date setting mechanisms, this time with the dial train bridge mounted: And, finally, the movement fully assembled (this 2936-2 comes with no day wheel and with the GMT function): Something I found a bit complex: hands assembly. Matching the date change, the GMT hand and the hour/min hands to make all looks fine has not been an easy thing... Finally all back in the case: After the treatment (that was triggered by messy keyless from the very 1st moment I got this watch), the keyless are now working fine (still a bit stiff, but not like at the beginning when the stem was coming out straight away from the movement and not coming back in...) and the watch is gaining around 30sec/day, but consider that the movement still has to be regulated, so I consider this a pretty good result Hope you've liked the sharing GenTLe Edited September 1, 2014 by GenTLe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Great Job. The amplitude at 5 positions is the only real indicator if the movement is running like it should. Keep it up! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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