muddi Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Hi, I did some research, and found out, that these chinese movements are clones of Swiss movements: - SeaGull ST2130- SeaGull ST1812- SeaGull 2100- Hangzhou 6460- Hangzhou 6311- Hangzhou 6301Do you know any other chinese movements, that are 100% direct clones of swiss movements in the measurements?Best regards,Muddi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenM Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/171312-calibers-comparation-eta-mitota-and-their-clones-the-list/ Recent post here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Hi Muddi, refer to my post (cited by Hayden), but consider that they're all not "100% clones", meaning that only 2824 and 2836 accepts 99.9% of the gen ETA spare parts. The 775x for example are more let's say 70% equal etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddi Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks for your comments! I, am not considering the spare parts, but only the dimensions of the "outer"-movement. So I should be able to make swaps from Swiss to chinese clones or vice versa, if the watch-case is the same, am I right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 muddi could be hand set issues on the switch even if they fit in the case , others would know more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks for your comments! I, am not considering the spare parts, but only the dimensions of the "outer"-movement. So I should be able to make swaps from Swiss to chinese clones or vice versa, if the watch-case is the same, am I right? Yes, you are. Mind that the pinions may differ between gen and chinese ones... Again 2836 and 2824 have the same pinions so the hands will fit on them and the gen ETAs ones. But 7750 have different pinions (I try to remember... maybe only the central second hand and the subdials). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Yes, you are. Mind that the pinions may differ between gen and chinese ones... Again 2836 and 2824 have the same pinions so the hands will fit on them and the gen ETAs ones. But 7750 have different pinions (I try to remember... maybe only the central second hand and the subdials). What he said.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Why is it so difficult for the chinese to clone 100% movements? Imagine a true clone of a Rolex movement, a 1570, a V72, an AP movement? How much would we pay for such a clone?? Me, a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenM Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Why is it so difficult for the chinese to clone 100% movements? Imagine a true clone of a Rolex movement, a 1570, a V72, an AP movement? How much would we pay for such a clone?? Me, a lot! I know just about nothing when it comes to movements but I'd assume that they would be more complicated and perhaps beyond the scope of asian manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opti Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 they clone movements that have expired patents so they can do so legally as far as Im aware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 they clone movements that have expired patents so they can do so legally as far as Im aware Exactly, it's because they use these movements also on legit watches. Therefore it's a nonsense to have legit watches with illegal patented movements inside. Surely there are things like the 775x that could have been done with 100% same dimensions and instead they have chosen to made them just a bit differently and this quite often is a problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 But why is it so hard? They tried the 3135 and failed, mostly. Why? They have all the tools. I honestly think it comes down to sloppiness and QC. There's talk of cloning the AP movements which would solve the date position onROOs. If that's true, my fear is that the movements will be crap and won't be able to get serviced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I would think quality of work force (untrained low cost) nothing to do w/ ability persay also quality of tooling, why increase cost when we gobble up crap. The cost benefit to produce first rate movements against the few people like us Daniel willing to pay for it most likely a loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I think at the moment there are 3 tiers of watches/movements. High end i.e. Rolex etc. Now they are established high end manufacturers from Switzerland. Renowned for producing quality products in (fairly) limited numbers. China has none of that reputation and are not interested in limited numbers. They are not going to break into that market. Mid range manufacturers that use ETA movements. these are in abundance...At the moment. With ETA pulling the plug on their movements this market is where the Chinese will (IMO) eventually move into. At the moment, the ETA based watches still have that Swiss provenance and are quality watches at a elevated but generally affordable price. Once the ETA movements dry up the Chinese will step up to the plate, invest in quality materials and tooling and smash this market. They have the capability, they are just learning their trade at the moment Low end manufacturers. This is where the Chinese are at the moment, churning out millions of 'generally' acceptable watches and movements. Yes they have a much higher failure rate than ETA based movements but then if it breaks, very few will go back for a warranty claim and just buy another cheapy. But the signs are there, they are masters at copying and have came a long way in a short period of time. Look at the complications they now produce, tourbillions, double tourbillions etc. Sea-gull for instance are heading in the right direction, better quality Chinese movements. As to the question "why don't they copy one to one" My guess is economics, if they copy one to one then when a piece of your asian clone breaks, you replace it (fix!) with a Swiss part. At the moment they don't want you fixing their movements, they want you buying them! Again, with the crappy 3135, it's a low demand item to them, so this was probably produced at a small company with crap tooling and not a particular amount of interest. Just a private customer like Yuki paying a company to do a little job for him. Once ETA have pulled the plug in 2019 (?) then either a new Swiss manufacturer will start up (unlikely) or the Chinese will show us what they can really do. Just my theory guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenTLe Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Once ETA have pulled the plug in 2019 (?) then either a new Swiss manufacturer will start up (unlikely) or the Chinese will show us what they can really do. Just my theory guys In part I agree. In pst not, because in Switzerland they already have at least a couple of companies that can substitute quite well the Eta movements. Sellita and Valgrandes are already manufacturing high quality pieces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceejay Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 In part I agree. In pst not, because in Switzerland they already have at least a couple of companies that can substitute quite well the Eta movements. Sellita and Valgrandes are already manufacturing high quality pieces The problem there will be keeping up with demand. Unless another partnership forms like the Swatch group then I don't think any of these companies will be able to supply the quantities that will be required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 The problem with Chinese etaclones is low quality control and no parts. I do not see this changing as long as they can get by with it. They can not enter the 'swiss quality' arena with the stuff they are making now. I have had good luck with Sea Gull movements...ST6, ST16, and ST19. An outfit in Switzerland is souping the ST16 up and calling it the 'swiss made' Claro Semag. The run of the mill ST6 and ST16 are usually very good but the ST19 has more problems being a chronograph and they are hard to work on plus replacement movements are expensive. If you get a good one they will run for years usually depending on how much you start, stop, and reset the chronograph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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