Field Report : Guangzhou (dec 2006)

[seraphe]

Just got back from GZ/Macau/HK trip and I thought I should share some of my rep shopping experience at GZ...

With all the hype gotten to me by previous reports by bklm1234's Reporting From Replica Capital, Guangzhou and tvt's Guangzhou Watch Markets "live" Report, I'm finally here at the replica watch capital of China. Having the luxury of a local driving me there, I found the Zhanxi Road/ Station West Road (站西路） very easily. Just like bklm1234 and the others who've been there, I felt the exhiliration of heaven.

There are so many buildings selling watches (some of which I do not know the english name). With limited time (3 half-day was not enough), I could only visit the top three on the list.

1. Southern Trade Center of Horology (南方钟表交易中心)

2. Nanfang Horological City (南方钟表城) - opposite of Southern Trade Center of Horology

3. Eastern Horological City (东方表城)

4. Wangjiao International Horological City (旺角国际钟表城)

5. Station West Jiulong Watch Center (站西路九龙表行)

6. New Jiulong Watch Center (新九龙表行)

7. Station West Watch Center (站西路表行)

8. Sanyi International Horological City (三一国际钟表城)

Day 1: The Prelude

My first stop was the Nanfang Horological City, which was the one recommended for the IWC GST Chrono Ti. THe recommended stall from a previous post by a fellow dark-sider was empty. A quick inquiring around and I was told the guy doesn't sell anymore. I did not understand what that meant but within minutes I found another stall nearby tended by 3 women selling the GST Ti. Bargaining was tough. These women offers nothing less that RMB 1300 (USD 166). Not wanting to give in easily, I walked away just to find another stall with that same watch.

Then something strange happened. With a swoosh of a second, all the stalls selling replicas started to cover their watches inside their glass stall displays with newspapers. At first I thought they were closing for the day (which was weird at 3pm), but when I realized what happened I should have known this could mean the end of the shopping for the day.

Some groups of police (different uniform from the usual ones patrolling for petty theft) started appearing and all replica watches disappeared from sight. Even the first stall where I found the GST Ti had their watches covered up. When I asked to buy the Ti for RMB 1100 (since they became the only stall I know that has that watch), I was told there was no more watch.

"No more, what do you mean no more? Do you have any other watch?"

"No. No more. Nothing. The 'guy' has gone home."

Guy? What guy? There was no 'guy'. There was simply no watch...

Then I remember the post the other day: China announces new anti-piracy crackdown as Treasury Secretary Paulson visits, I realized what was going on. Crack-down is going to be frequent for this month and the next few to come. Oh no~ This Rep shopping mission is going to be tough.

Walking around in the next buildings, I noticed a large crowd around a stall at the Southern Trade Center of Horology. Someone had just been arrested for selling replica watches and policemen were making notes of the place like a crime scene. Bystanders (shop owners and shoppers alike) were just looking indifferently like nothing was their business (and indeed they should). Even when the police were done and gone, the watches continued to be covered. I waited for another half an hour and still nothing moved, so I gave up.

No luck today.

Day 2 : Down to Business

Two days later after a short trip to Zhuhai and Macau (and after some small winnings at the casino), I made my second trip to the rep city. This time round I started off with the Southern Trade Center of Horology . Don't ask why, but I got the hunch that a warm spot from a recent illicit deal gone bad would be the safest for a while.

And I was right. After less than half an hour of browsing around for some good reps, I came across stall #B64 with some good IWC and decent Pannie reps. (It's got the GST Chrono SS I've been hunting for!). The stall tendant Mr. Z (let's keep his name anonymous) tending to the stall is a really friendly and helpful guy. Everytime I pointed to a particular watch I like, he would run off and return with that watch. Most other stalls would do the same, but what I like about Mr. Z is that I turned down many of the crappy reps he brought back and yet he had so much patience to keep going off and back with a better one.

In the end, my harvest for the day...

IWC GST Chrono SS for RMB 1100 (USD 140).

I have been anticipating this watch for far too long (Taka and some GST Chrono fans might have noticed) and this watch does not disappoint me one bit. The workmanship is superb! It lives up to be one of the most accurate reps along with the Ti version (which I also ordered to be collected another day), if not for the inaccurate dial.

IWC GST Aquatimer 2000 for RMB 900 (USD 115).

Not the best rep for this model, but it feels great on the wrist. I could almost feel this watch as a replacement for TTK sub I was wearing, if not for the marker at 12 on the dial and the crown.

From the Eastern Watch Center (just across the road), I got a rubber caseback opener, a 3-clamp opener and a Diamond Selector II... all for RMB 360 (USD 46).

So I need to wait for the GST Chrono Ti. That means I will be coming around for a third time!

Day 3: Touch Down!

While I was on my way back to GZ from a 3-day stay at HK, Mr. Z called me on my mobile to inform me that the Ti was ready for collection. I asked what time he would open for business the next day and he said he usually starts at 11am, but would come earlier to accomodate to my tight schedule (since I would be returning home that same day). I couldn't wait.

So when I returned for the Ti, I decided to buy a few more watches from him. My final harvest for the trip include:

IWC GST Chrono Ti for RMB 1150 (USD 147)

Finally, my GST Chrono collection is complete!

Daytona for RMB 750 (USD 95)

Another rollie I've been eyeing for a while now.

Omega Planet Ocean Chrono for RMB 900 (USD 115)

Picked this one for my brother-in-law. He asked for a BIG watch and wants one that will catch attention. I hope this is not too big for him...

PAM 210 Radiomir (non-sapphire) for RMB 650 (USD 83)

Picked this one for my sis. Thought a Radiomir would be nice on a feminine wrist...

And a PAM SS strap for RMB 150 (USD 20)

I did pay a visit to Mr. Lin over at Eastern Horological City to help service my watches. I seeked his help to install a gen dial onto the GST Chrono Ti but he said he couldn't as it is too tricky and will not be stable. I will have to take on this challenge myself then.

So that concludes my watch rep shopping at GZ. My dad, who was with me during the trip was impressed with the quality of the GST Chrono SS/Ti and the Daytona. He's staying for another week at GZ and is thinking of visiting the place himself now...

[Devedander]

Coulda swore I read this a week ago...

[fotoman]

i always love these reports

[Dutchy]

Absolutely brilliant! GREAT watches too! Thank you for sharing.

[fitmic]

Damn I'm too afraid of flying.

Otherwise I'd be there by tomorrow.

Thanks for a great story!!!

[tvt]

OK, I knew the reports that the entire market had vanished must of been wrong, just a temproary thing.

Obviously this seems like a fraction of what it was in it's prime, a mear gohst of what it once was and MUCH more expensive to boot. HOWEVER, for most of us it still seems like a very worthwhile place to visit and the prices are still low by comparision to normal dealers.

Great to hear it is (for now) back up and running because a friend is headed there shortly and was hoping to check it out.

[flavor flav]

great post i love these stories.

[sammalone]

great story!

I would love to do a group trip

[cskent69]

The fact that it seems to be getting harder does make we worry a bit. I get the feeling that thing will get harder and harder as we get closer to the olympics as well. Better get our stuff now.....

[Guest Mr. Micavi]

By shopping in these "horological centers" are you putting yourself at any risk?

I am sure many people have read about tourists in Italy, etc. being busted and fined in the tens of thousands of dollars for buying knock-off bags and sunglasses. I am curious if the same occurs in China. Are authorities focusing on just the dealers or dealers and consumers?

On a side note, what is the best estimate regarding the actual cost to produce, lets say, the IWC GST SS? To the person running the factory, pumping out IWC's how much do you think it costs him to build each watch? I would imagine it passes through a couple people by the time it reaches the shopping centers and everyone tacks on a few dollars each time, so what do you think? Certainley we are paying a bit of a premium by buying from dealers here, not a complaint, just a statement. I am greatful for finding this place and that there are dealers willing to sell to us. However, I am just curious and would like to know how much it cost to produce a replica. Likewise, would anyone know the production cost of a genuine IWC, or any high-end genuine?

Thanks

[dadog13]

great story!...love this rep hunting trips..i hope I can find time to pay the visit to GZ before they close all this illegal stores...

[seraphe]

OK, I knew the reports that the entire market had vanished must of been wrong, just a temproary thing.

Obviously this seems like a fraction of what it was in it's prime, a mear gohst of what it once was and MUCH more expensive to boot. HOWEVER, for most of us it still seems like a very worthwhile place to visit and the prices are still low by comparision to normal dealers.

Great to hear it is (for now) back up and running because a friend is headed there shortly and was hoping to check it out.

It's definitely still there. For a while, I thought I'd be disappointed from a fruitless trip. But then it dawned to me that China is a massive and largely populated place. You may lose a dealer or two (or even a whole bunch), but you will NEVER lose the rep watch business in China.

The fact that it seems to be getting harder does make we worry a bit. I get the feeling that thing will get harder and harder as we get closer to the olympics as well. Better get our stuff now.....

Not to worry too much. In the worst case, rep watch business will go underground (just like how it is for us now) off the street for a year or two. You think people are going to stop eating?

IMO, the rep watch business will not disappear. It may evolve, relocate, reorganize... but never disappear. Take GZ for example... not only do they do wholesale for rep watches, they also have streets after streets of fake leather products, sneakers and clothes. That takes up to about a quarter of the GZ city already. Will the Chinese govt really want to reshuffle their economy when it's just picking up?

[slay]

now please, anyone of you, step up and say again "i cant believe they make 100$ on a watch sale"

IWC GST Ti: 147$ at the market (including a mark up, because he didnt buy from the factory!) 299$ at trustytime.

nothing wrong with that, I just wanted to point it out for those wo tried to eagerly tell us that there is no way a dealer makes 100$ on a watch

[jonas]

now please, anyone of you, step up and say again "i cant believe they make 100$ on a watch sale"

IWC GST Ti: 147$ at the market (including a mark up, because he didnt buy from the factory!) 299$ at trustytime.

nothing wrong with that, I just wanted to point it out for those wo tried to eagerly tell us that there is no way a dealer makes 100$ on a watch

Well Slay.. I followed that post, and I must admit that I have made my thoughts about how much money it will be possible to make on reps... but it strikes me every time the $-signs start to appear in my eyes.. there are costs involved here that we do not know how to calculate.... bribes, stockholding, returns, fraud, the operational risk of being shut down... not something I would like to have on my mind when I laid my head on the pillow for the night.. would have developed a serious drinking problem pretty fast I think I'm happy to be in the ordering end of this chain for now.

[bigmouth]

now please, anyone of you, step up and say again "i cant believe they make 100$ on a watch sale"

IWC GST Ti: 147$ at the market (including a mark up, because he didnt buy from the factory!) 299$ at trustytime.

nothing wrong with that, I just wanted to point it out for those wo tried to eagerly tell us that there is no way a dealer makes 100$ on a watch

I paid 150 euro shipped for the IWC GST Ti a few months ago. Dealer was Paul. So not all dealers make $100 on a watch.

Edited January 12, 2007 by bigmouth

[tvt]

Even at $150 it is quite possible that Paul is making close to $100 because he is not dealing with an many middle men.

I am NOT making ANY judgement on what "dealers" make or not. Afterall, there are "dealers" who are at the source, "dealers" who are middle men, "dealers" who are simply drop shippers and so on. No one rule will apply to them all by a long shot.

What I can tell you as fact because I experienced it first hand is that at the watch markets you can EASILY buy watches for 1/3 to 1/4 the going price from most dealers. I have posted this before but in general watches that may sell for about $100 from dealers can be had EASILY for under $20 and often around $10. These are the all asian watches using asian movements.. they are incredibly cheap to make and buy in China. Higher end fakes that may sell for 300 here were had in the $80 - $125 range with mst falling just shy of $100. Now remember, this was from a westerner with NO contacts buying one piece at a time with NO volume discount or much actual neogtiation. In other words I was paying the "screw the American guy" prices and STILL it was that cheap.

Draw whatever conclusions you want but do not fool yourself into thinking that these cost more to produce then they do. I am not sure any of it really means anything anyway, you should pay what you think is fair for a watch and leave it at that.

[chrisbailey86]

Wow, an amazing post, and has definatly added to my knowledge of my hobby!

Thanks a lot

Christopher

[Dani]

I will be nagg the dealers more for better prices from now on

[tvt]

I generally do NOT "nagg" dealers for better prices even though I know first hand just how cheap most of these watches truly are. Why? Bacause I am sitting ten thousand miles away from where I could get the watches cheaper. The dealers have every right to charge whatever they feel they can get away with and we have every right not to buy them. But paying $300 for what is REALLY a $45 watch is still a hell of a lot cheaper than any reasonable alternative.

[Highflyingclive]

Damn I'm too afraid of flying.

Otherwise I'd be there by tomorrow.

Thanks for a great story!!!

No. Fitmic... you are not scared of flying.

What worries you is crashing

Seriously, my father would not fly. So when mum insisted on a foreign holiday, he drove to Spain. And fell in love with the place. In those days, (about forty years ago) driving to Spain from England was a major adventure... no motorway-class roads, no crash barriers on the mountain roads... no English spoken outside of major towns...

So the following year, mum just booked air tickets. With dad in an aisle seat, so that he couldn't see out of the windows. He coped.

And once he retired, he flew to Spain at least three times a year.

I have heard of some airlines offering ... well, let's call it therapy... for nervous passengers. It might be worth your while enquiring... there is a big, wonderful world out there.