mrtoulouse

[malilis]

Dear All,

I would like to give an appreciation of a purchase recently made.

I bought a vintage 5513 rep from fellow member “mrtoulouse” on RWGcc ; here is the link to his advert.

https://rwg.cc/topic/189419-franken-mbw-5513/

 

I have always been fascinated by the 5513, and have already bought a few (reps ofcourse, gen are out of range!) but none really “great”.

When I saw the ad of “mrtoulouse”, I had the feeling that watch was perhaps worth the amount requested by the seller.

Prior to buy it, I raised a few matters over the MP’s ie was the movement a real swiss ETA? (answer was yes, confirmed), was the bezel operating correctly? (answer was yes, a lot of work had been put into the bezel installation to have it work just as a gen) .. etc .;

Because the communications were good, because the seller was sympathetic, because he claimed to be a gen watches seller and as such was able to mod and to end up with a rep real close to gen, I pulled the trigger.

 

After receipt, I was not deceived by the aesthetical aspect, the vintage look .. but some flaws were present .. the bezel was blocked, the case looked horrible due the attempt to age it, the bracelet (gen, he said) was difficult to demount ..

The real problems popped up not long after : the crown and tube somehow came loose and it was not possible anymore to screw the crown back…. Watch out of order ..

 

As a result I went to my watchsmith, to discover that :

-       Crown and tube had been glued, probably when trying to raise the crown, bonding agent had melted into the case

-       Dial was held in position with “robico” material (gum)

-       Movement was not an ETA, .. perhaps a Chinese reconditioned ETA … more likely just a chinese copy .. and was out of order when everything got wrong ..

-       Movement was held in place by Loctite glu .. not mechanically as it should ..

-       I had to replace the movement .. a real swiss ETA has then been installed

-       I bought a new crown and tube from Athaya that was installed as well

-       The bezel is still blocked, problem pending ..

Ultimately, this watch I thought had been modded “professionnaly”, had actually been “mickeymoused” .. poorly bricolaged .. !

 

It is my opinion I paid too much for the watch, and subsequently I went back to the seller.

I thought some refund was in order, to be negotiated (amicably).

 

But would you believe it, I did’nt receive any response to my messages !

Conclusion : I made a deal perhaps not with a crook, but at least with a non-straightforward person that issued an incorrect ad ! and that has, since, disappeared .. !

 

For people wanting to see evidences, I have readily available the exchanges of messages, pictures of the movement ..

 

Thank you for your attention,

 

 

 

[kernow]

Have you approached a moderator to assist you? It is the correct thing to do before your post here. 

[malilis]

I thought that here was the place to tell such unfortunate story .. no ? But, you are probably right .. I will contact a moderator and see if something can be done.

Thks

[Propofol]

MrToulouse is one of our serious and old members it’s quite unfortunate and sure will be settled gently between .. gentlemen

[malilis]

Possibly, although I am not so sure about that since I did not receive any answer to my last messages telling him about the problem ..it was also my intent, to have a gentleman agreement ... 

just for your information, have a look at the following thread "https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/franken-mbw-5513.373887/"

anyhow, I have now approached a moderator .. will see what happens ..

[slied013]

What a story. Hopefully it will end positive. 

[mech500]

Sorry to hear....just bear in mind that it is normal to use adhesive (dial dots) to secure gen spec dial to ETA spec movement.

Also, I have seen a few modders use "liquid - Metal" (i.e. Glue) to raise the crown position to gen spec.

Any watch-maker not familiar with the rep scene will be shocked .

Can you send pictures of the watch-case that you say looks horrible?




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[malilis]

Indeed, I am no specialist of modding reps ..just an enthousiast amateur of watches.

I am surprised to learn the work habits you mention .. I wonder if the best modders ((those I see regularly mentioned and praised in the various forum) are working like you describe ? But whatever it is, my watch was then not well done .. since it fall apart !

I cannot send the pictures of the scratches done to age the case, since I got rid of these immediately, well before the real problems arose.

Fact remain the advert was not straight (swiss ETA !); in that regard, I suggest you read a post on the other forum, where people more knowledgeable than myself did ask questions and challenged the veracity of the advert of mrtoulouse (on that forum).

Here is the link : “ https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/franken-mbw-5513.373887/ »

Unfortunately, I did not see the post prior to buy .. had I seen it, I would have not bought the watch.

[mech500]

Here are my comments for what they are worth:


As far as I know, securing gen spec dial to ETA spec movements is basically always done using "gum" (dial dots). You can't call seller out for this point IMO.


A reconditioned Asian ETA franken movement is hard to tell apart from Swiss ETA by novice watch builder like the seller. The price difference between a reconditioned Asian franken ETA vs Swiss is low ($75ish). Not a big deal.


Scratched/aged case is deliberate ageing - as per sellers pics. I don't understand your complaint here?


Movement should NOT be held in by glue. A machined spacer should be used as required.


If you want gen spec crown position, you have to re-drill the tube higher up. I don't know how else you can close the existing tube hole (other than "liquid-metal"). I have seen method many times....not really an issue for me.


Seller should have declared bezel "stuck"


Hope you can work out a fair resolution with the seller mate





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[malilis]

Good morning ! Thank you for your comments ... always interesting to have another viewpoint ! Even though I find you very tolerant with the OP !

My watchsmith did secure the dial that came with the watch to the new ETA movement mechanically, not with gum .. 

Regarding the movement that came with the watch .. I specifically asked the seller about it, asked for a picture, asked if the swiss ETA was confirmed .. answer : "yes" ! And if you read the other thread(RWI) I gave you the link of, you see that, there, he was obliged to go to "stated" ..! No matter the cost difference between a real swiss ETA and a chinese copy, I was cheated ..

The scratches on the case were not an real issue for me .. I got rid of immediately, I just listed these in my thread .. just to reinforce the fact that poor work was done ..

I did not ask for a raised crown .. the seller pointed out how marvellous it was done by him .. to tell you the truth, I dont see real difference between before and now that a new Athaya crown and tube have been installed, without trying to raise them ... but indeed I am a novice buyer .. when the novice seller should have been a bit more honest in his bulls.. narrative .. I took his narrative at face value .. I thought I would have really a nice rep, well worked out by a "specialist" (that's what he claims to be) .. how naïve !

I would be interested to know how you would rate the price vs the quality and the reality of the watch ..

the bezel is another  point .. 

Anyhow, prior to issue my thread about his behavior, I tried to discuss the matter over the MP .. I had had at least a dozen exchanges already .. but as soon as the problems popped up, no answer whatsoever to my three messages (and he was not on leave since he showed up on the RWI forum at the same time) .. my intent was indeed to work out an agreement.

I have contacted the team here and am expecting some move.

Rgds,

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Legend]

The main problem here as I see it, isn't about the crown or case or movement per se, but rather, the fact that the seller has gone silent.

@mrtoulouse, do you care to chime in on the allegations? 

We will encourage you to contact the buyer and work the issues out instead of keeping silent. 

 

[QueTip]

On 7/26/2017 at 4:14 AM, Legend said:

We will encourage you to contact the buyer and work the issues out instead of keeping silent. 

 

IIRC, seller has gotten back to the buyer through a thread on RWI. Just FYI brother. 

[malilis]

nothing new on RWI .. unless I am wrong ..?!

[malilis]

Dear All,

Quick update in this saga ..

The staff tried to get in touch with mrtoulouse, but failed as I did when I tried to talk to him about the problem, in order to find an agreement.

Nothing but disappointment from mrtoulouse, who should be banned from all forum, in my opinion !

[bobandshawn]

Sorry friend. Very sad...

 

B