Silver plastic sealed eta mvt packets?

[Timelord]

How many of you ever came across to a sealed eta packet containing a new 2836-2 but no other information whether it is the 17 jewel or the 25 jewel version of it ?  Is there a code on the packet that  would give his information?   The best would be to open them but then it is too late if it is the wrong one!  

 

Would the 17 jewel version be less inferior to the 25 jewel one due to less jewel count?

[automatico]

The 25 jewel model might have a little less friction in the autowind assembly making the winding a little bit more efficient.  I have seen a lot of 17 jewel Eta automatics and they seem to hold up fine as long as the auto assembly is c/o every few years so the bushings do not go dry.  Most of the Eta 28xx autowind trouble is with the reverser itself and bushing wear is not much of a problem as far as I know.  I would rather have the 25 jewel model if I had a choice though.

 

I have put china etaclone a/w assemblies on a few older 17 jewel Eta 2846 movements and they seem to work Ok.  I clean the a/w assembly and soak the reversers in a mix of fast evaporating solvent/watch oil mix for a few minutes and it seems to help a little. 

WUS Purist types ain't gonna like this...    ...the truth is I usually run the (Eta) a/w assembly complete (not disassembled) in cleaner minus the ball bearing rotor in an ultrasonic cleaning machine, rinse twice, soak the whole thing in the Witch's Brew, warm air dry it, then go back and oil the pivots with D5.  Many Purists use some kind of high priced '2 cycle mix' for the reversers but the home brew seems to work Ok for me. 

Btw...you might be surprised at the number of bonafide 'main line' watch mechanics that take similar shortcuts while charging nose bleed prices.

 

I will admit to not being much of an Eta Purist.   

 

 

 

 

[Timelord]

18 hours ago, automatico said:

The 25 jewel model might have a little less friction in the autowind assembly making the winding a little bit more efficient.  I have seen a lot of 17 jewel Eta automatics and they seem to hold up fine as long as the auto assembly is c/o every few years so the bushings do not go dry.  Most of the Eta 28xx autowind trouble is with the reverser itself and bushing wear is not much of a problem as far as I know.  I would rather have the 25 jewel model if I had a choice though.

 

I have put china etaclone a/w assemblies on a few older 17 jewel Eta 2846 movements and they seem to work Ok.  I clean the a/w assembly and soak the reversers in a mix of fast evaporating solvent/watch oil mix for a few minutes and it seems to help a little. 

WUS Purist types ain't gonna like this...    ...the truth is I usually run the (Eta) a/w assembly complete (not disassembled) in cleaner minus the ball bearing rotor in an ultrasonic cleaning machine, rinse twice, soak the whole thing in the Witch's Brew, warm air dry it, then go back and oil the pivots with D5.  Many Purists use some kind of high priced '2 cycle mix' for the reversers but the home brew seems to work Ok for me. 

Btw...you might be surprised at the number of bonafide 'main line' watch mechanics that take similar shortcuts while charging nose bleed prices.

 

I will admit to not being much of an Eta Purist.   

 

 

 

 

Great information !  Thanks !

The 8 less jewels in the 17 jewel mechanism would mean that there are less jewels in the auto wind assembly!  I never really noticed.

I too prefer the 25 J over the 17 J version, but if buying new sealed from the packet it is usually impossible to tell as they never say how many jewels are in the mechanisms!   

[SSTEEL]

Mine usually come like this in batches.

 

Untitled by S STEEL, on Flickr

[Timelord]

6 hours ago, SSTEEL said:

Mine usually come like this in batches.

 

Untitled by S STEEL, on Flickr

 

Yes exactly  what I was referring to!  What do those codes mean on the white label?  How do you know it is a 25 J or 17 J  without opening the packet?  A local here has the following codes RO3648852 on some of his 2836-2 followed by 8.11 and 1P! How can one tell what type of movement is in it without opening it? I cant make him an offer as I don't know what is inside it

[alligoat]

Aren't the 17 jewel movements a thing of the past? I would figure anything new is 25 jewels these days.

[Rolexman]

New versions (>2018) have the Lasered logo en reference# underneath the Balance wheel instead of engraved and are all 25 jewels. 

[automatico]

"Aren't the 17 jewel movements a thing of the past?  I would figure anything new is 25 jewels these days."

 

I have not seen any new 17J auto 28xx Etas in years.  Nos... yes, new...no.  I have a few 2846 in 25+/- year old Jaques Prevard diver type watches and they are all 17 jewel.  The movements might have been nos when put in the watches...who knows?  Otoh I have a few nos 2879 from the late 1970s and they are all 25 jewel, QS DD @3 and run at 21600 bph.

The 2879 is similar to the later 2836, same date parts and basic layout (same dial foot location) but they have stems .10mm larger in diameter where they pass through the main plate than later Eta 2824/36 etc.  You can use stems made for the manual wind Eta 2750 in the 2879 and can also use these larger diameter stems in Eta 2801 with worn stem holes in the main plate from years of hand winding without cleaning/greasing the stem...might need to run a drill bit through the plate to round out the hole though.  Cheaper than a new movement. 

 

The 2879 also has an autowind assembly with a rotor bushing in place of a ball bearing and they are relatively silent compared to the BB rotors.  Mine are non hack and I did not check to see if a hack lever from a 2824/36 will work...can not tell on the one in the '5512' without taking the a/w assembly, MS barrel bridge etc off and I do not have another one apart. 

I put one in a cartel '5512' last week and it runs fine at about minus 10 seconds in the past 24 hours, may speed it up a hair.   

The rotors have 'CARLEX' engraved on them...a 'CARTELEX 5512'  Ha!

 

The 2879 will work in a no date watch made for an Eta 2836 without needing the stamped metal calendar spacer because the 2879 has a spacer ridge made on the outer edge of the main plate...they also have tall cp and hour wheels. 

 

Eta 2879 info:

http://www.tztoolshop.com/page173.html

https://rwg.cc/topic/173336-eta-2879-regulationhow-to/

 

[Timelord]

2 minutes ago, automatico said:

"Aren't the 17 jewel movements a thing of the past?  I would figure anything new is 25 jewels these days."

 

I have not seen any new 17J auto 28xx Etas in years.  Nos... yes, new...no. 

 

 

Thanks for the piece of information!  The problem is that some supply houses have old stock which are sealed in these silver bags and there is no indication as to the jewel count of the movement unless one opens the packet to be sure!

 

Unless  the older 17 jewel versions have different packaging, then this would confirm it!!  

 

The other problem is that that swatch/ eta group who sell these movements are notoriously unhelpful in directing you to even getting close to an answer or having the courtesy in answering what to the catalogue number on the packet suggests!   

[automatico]

"The problem is that some supply houses have old stock which are sealed in these silver bags and there is no indication as to the jewel count of the movement unless one opens the packet to be sure!"

 

I suspect that some supply houses may buy nos unsealed movements when they are offered at a discount and sell them with the disclaimer 'new, not in original packaging' or 'may need to be serviced' etc.  'Silver bag' movemnts are another story and they are sealed in the bag to keep them clean and slow down ageing of the oil.  I have never seen a chart or anything to make sense out of the codes on the packages.

 

"The other problem is that swatch/ eta group who sell these movements are notoriously unhelpful in directing you to even getting close to an answer or having the courtesy in answering what to the catalogue number on the packet suggests!"

 

From what I have gathered in 40+ years fooling with this stuff, most of today's swiss watch companies seem to (all imho):

1...Look down on their customers as suckers who will pay 5X or 10X what a watch is worth if the right formula is used to entice them.

2...Slick adventure/macho ads featuring actor/sports hero 'Ambassadors' rev the suckers up and make them hot to buy the latest Tough Guy Watch at highly inflated prices.  Making them hard to get also helps.

3...Cut parts off and they will have a codlock on parts and service at astronomical prices...shoddy service becoming the rule in many cases.

4...The same riff raff that makes watch companies rich should never be allowed to come in direct contact with anyone in authority at any Hallowed Swiss Watch Company.  All 'secrets' must remain secret.

 

I for one will be grinning like a possum when the next 'quartz crisis' brings them to their knees.  

[Timelord]

Well said!   That nails it head on!  The same would apply with most of the "all sell and no tell " commercial world!

 

I remember a similar example used in commerce school which are the basic essential ingredients lubricating marketing and capitalism!