v72 6263 Newman

[tonytuzz]

Sharing the joy of another completed build:

 

eBay case

NYwatch bezel

Enicar v72 serviced

Athaya crown & tube

Phong dial and hands

Otto Frei pushers

Gen 7205 rivet bracelet

 

Holds up pretty well next to my gen 6263, don't you think?

 

[kidcreole]

I'd be happy with either 😁 Very nice indeed.

[freddy333]

I would love some closer-ups, but looks good from relatively afar.

[d4v3]

I would love more pics too ( specially a comparisson one case on top of the other) , nice build OP!

[HandsUpDontShoot]

I'm sorry, no. 

[kyldare]

Wow! Lovely watches. Does the satisfaction of a well-built Daytona rep touch the feeling of a real one?

 

I had a GenStein 6265 (literally all Gen, save the V72). Miss it more than any other watch I've had - Gen or not. Would love to have a Gen plexi Daytona, but now they're $60k or more. 

[freddy333]

20 hours ago, kyldare said:

Does the satisfaction of a well-built Daytona rep touch the feeling of a real one?

 

If, by 'rep', you mean 100% (generally Asian-made) aftermarket, then I think the satisfaction depends on the quality of the particular rep, your knowledge/experience with the real thing & expectations.
If you take a low-end Rolex Sub rep & replace the crown/crown tube with gen parts, you will greatly improve the feel of that rep when winding/time-setting. However, the case, crystal, bracelet will still have a low-end feel. The more components you replace with gens, the more the rep's overall feel will match the gen's (ie, improve).

But since you added the qualifier 'well-built', I am guessing you are actually referring to frankens -- either a 100% genuine collection of Rolex parts assembled by someone other than Rolex, or a combination of aftermarket & gen parts assembled by someone other than Rolex.
In the case of the former, since you are dealing with all gen parts & assuming the watch is properly assembled, there should be no difference in the feel of this watch & the same model built by Rolex.
In the case of the latter, the feel will be dependent on the ability/knowledge/effort of the assembler & your knowledge/experience with the (Rolex factory-made) gen.

In my experience, a well-crafted franken, where all of the user-accessible components are gen, will have the same feel as the gen.

[automatico]

Fine looking watches!

 

Never had a manual wind Daytona, missed one in the mid 1990s for about $1500.  Same guy had a steel  V72 Wittnauer 'Professional', I snagged it.  When you snooze, you lose.

Had quite a few V72 in other brands and they are all gone except for one nos mainspring in my parts stash.  All I have now is some swisseta 7750/7753 powered stuff...Hamilton Khaki, Victorinox Air Boss, and a 7750 Invicta diver about the size of a 5 pound barbell weight.

 

"In my experience, a well-crafted franken, where all of the user-accessible components are gen, will have the same feel as the gen."

 

I agree. 

My rolex powered Frankensteins are not much different from genuine except for the case, dial, hands, and bracelet being replicas.  The 'feel' of the watch is the same...and the cases are not beat up/rotted out like many true vintages.

As far as that goes...a replacement '444' case from rolex service is not original either so a J$W com, Ruby, Yuki etc case is just as good for every day wear and a hell-of-a-lot cheaper.  Imho. 

Matter of fact, you could probably take a J$W com case with a 444 serial number, correct case back stamping, genuine dial, crown etc and never get called out if it was opened up.  Probably/maybe.

 

'Case' in point...I have a DW '1680' case with a rolex 1570, original date wheel, white Lemrich dial, genuine crown etc and a few 'quasi-experts' have closely eyeballed it and the only thing they said jumped out at them was the bezel insert was not genuine. 

About half of them wanted to buy it.

 

Rolex 1680 Submariner Fantastic Lemrich Dial Circa 1977 - Rolex Passion Market

 

 

 

[kyldare]

On 10/14/2021 at 11:37 AM, freddy333 said:

 

If, by 'rep', you mean 100% (generally Asian-made) aftermarket, then I think the satisfaction depends on the quality of the particular rep, your knowledge/experience with the real thing & expectations.
If you take a low-end Rolex Sub rep & replace the crown/crown tube with gen parts, you will greatly improve the feel of that rep when winding/time-setting. However, the case, crystal, bracelet will still have a low-end feel. The more components you replace with gens, the more the rep's overall feel will match the gen's (ie, improve).

But since you added the qualifier 'well-built', I am guessing you are actually referring to frankens -- either a 100% genuine collection of Rolex parts assembled by someone other than Rolex, or a combination of aftermarket & gen parts assembled by someone other than Rolex.
In the case of the former, since you are dealing with all gen parts & assuming the watch is properly assembled, there should be no difference in the feel of this watch & the same model built by Rolex.
In the case of the latter, the feel will be dependent on the ability/knowledge/effort of the assembler & your knowledge/experience with the (Rolex factory-made) gen.

In my experience, a well-crafted franken, where all of the user-accessible components are gen, will have the same feel as the gen.

 

I've been fortunate to have just about every Gen vintage Rolex I ever wanted after getting into the hobby by building frankens. The only full Gen I haven't had is a plexi Daytona; Only had that nice Franken, which always left me with just a niggling sliver of desire for the real thing. So I sold the watch for a Gen Sub, with the understanding I'd never get to fully scratch that Daytona itch.

 

That said, I sold that Franken Daytona about five years ago, and I've missed it like crazy ever since. Contacted the buyer to try and get it back, but to no avail. I bought another franken Daytona, but it still leaves me with a bit of that longing for the real deal. However, with the price disparity between a crappy Gen and a great Franken being well into five figures, I'm not sure that extra cost is worth the shred of satisfaction. But I thought I'd ask. 

 

I guess my question was more philosophical, and aimed squarely at the Gen Daytona and its Franken ilk. 

[freddy333]

3 hours ago, kyldare said:

However, with the price disparity between a crappy Gen and a great Franken being well into five figures, I'm not sure that extra cost is worth the shred of satisfaction. But I thought I'd ask. 

I guess my question was more philosophical, and aimed squarely at the Gen Daytona and its Franken ilk. 

 

With current pricing for gen 62xx series (plexi-crystaled) Daytonas beginning around the $60k mark and skyrocketing up from there (Newman/Exotic-dialed 62xx Daytonas generally trade well in excess of $100k, with sales sometimes tipping the scales at a quarter mil' for nice steel examples), I think sating your niggling sliver of desire will be a costly meal indeed. But, on a more positive note, I can assure you that the feel of a properly assembled franken (with all user-accessible components of genuine  Rolex manufacture) will match its 100% factory-made analog in every way but the feel of your wallet. Of course, today, many frankens at this level have become unobtanium for all but the well-heeled collector.

[Nanuq]

4 hours ago, kyldare said:

That said, I sold that Franken Daytona about five years ago, and I've missed it like crazy ever since. Contacted the buyer to try and get it back, but to no avail. I bought another franken Daytona, but it still leaves me with a bit of that longing for the real deal.

 

Tell ya what... send me $35,000 and I'll send you a spectacular plexi Daytona.  Absolutely indistinguishable from the naked eye, with the caveat you don't get to open it.  It will be gen, or it will be a great Franken.  But it will look, act and feel like a gen in every way.  I'll invest the difference from what it cost me (if there's any left over) and you enjoy the watch.  After 5 years if it doesn't scratch the itch any more, send it back, I'll resell it for 20% more than I paid for it, and refund your money.  

 

I'll make out like a bandit and you'll have no way of knowing if it's real or not.  It's a gamble, and it's NOT a gamble at the same time.

 

 

 

(an illustration about intangibles and our unreasonable hearts)

[HandsUpDontShoot]

Hmmm I'll sell you my Killy for $25,000 🤣

[Nanuq]

Great price! Mine’s not for sale.

[kyldare]

15 hours ago, Nanuq said:

 

Tell ya what... send me $35,000 and I'll send you a spectacular plexi Daytona.  Absolutely indistinguishable from the naked eye, with the caveat you don't get to open it.  It will be gen, or it will be a great Franken.  But it will look, act and feel like a gen in every way.  I'll invest the difference from what it cost me (if there's any left over) and you enjoy the watch.  After 5 years if it doesn't scratch the itch any more, send it back, I'll resell it for 20% more than I paid for it, and refund your money.  

 

I'll make out like a bandit and you'll have no way of knowing if it's real or not.  It's a gamble, and it's NOT a gamble at the same time.

 

 

 

(an illustration about intangibles and our unreasonable hearts)

Honestly, at this point, I'd pay a very good price (not $35k haha) for a V72 Franken that had a Gen dial, hands, pushers, and bezel, all housed in a case that got the profile/feel perfect. My franken 6263 is fun occasionally, but the aftermarket case doesn't have the right lug length and profile, and the bezel/dial/hands have some minor flaws. Altogether, it's not quite close enough to Gen for me, and prices for Gen dials/hands/bezels have really run away. 

 

I cringe, because I had a full Gen 6262 case set, complete with bezel and pushers, sitting in my desk drawer for YEARS. Sold it because I didn't want a pump pusher Daytona. Those parts would buy me.... well I don't want to think about it. 

[freddy333]

19 hours ago, Nanuq said:

 

Tell ya what... send me $35,000 and I'll send you a spectacular plexi Daytona.  Absolutely indistinguishable from the naked eye, with the caveat you don't get to open it.  It will be gen, or it will be a great Franken.  But it will look, act and feel like a gen in every way.  I'll invest the difference from what it cost me (if there's any left over) and you enjoy the watch.  After 5 years if it doesn't scratch the itch any more, send it back, I'll resell it for 20% more than I paid for it, and refund your money.  

I'll make out like a bandit and you'll have no way of knowing if it's real or not.  It's a gamble, and it's NOT a gamble at the same time.

 

 

I am not sure I was able to follow the ball all the way, but I like the way you think. I think. 

[freddy333]

3 hours ago, kyldare said:

I'd pay a very good price (not $35k haha) for a V72 Franken that had a Gen dial, hands, pushers, and bezel, all housed in a case that got the profile/feel perfect.

 

Finding hands & pushers should not be difficult (or terribly costly). But the cost of a decent gen (62xx Daytona) dial will likely match or exceed $35k today.
Accurate aftermarket 62xx bezels can be found, but good luck finding a proper gen folded-link/rivet bracelet with the correct set of 62xx Daytona end links for anything less than a king's ransom. Hell, even gen steel 19mm 7835/357 bracelets, which fit (but were not made for) 62xx Daytonas, are starting to exceed the $1k mark.

[kyldare]

On 10/19/2021 at 3:15 PM, freddy333 said:

 

Finding hands & pushers should not be difficult (or terribly costly). But the cost of a decent gen (62xx Daytona) dial will likely match or exceed $35k today.
Accurate aftermarket 62xx bezels can be found, but good luck finding a proper gen folded-link/rivet bracelet with the correct set of 62xx Daytona end links for anything less than a king's ransom. Hell, even gen steel 19mm 7835/357 bracelets, which fit (but were not made for) 62xx Daytonas, are starting to exceed the $1k mark.

 

Whelp, as a follow-up to this conundrum, I bought what amounts to a Genstein 6265 from Jacek at Tropical Watch. It's a 6265 with some service parts. I suspect it was screwed together some time in the nineties, based on the watchmaker's markings inside the caseback. At some point, the 727 was swapped out for a 722. I paid a lot for it; There's now way around that. Call me a fool if you'd like. But I paid a LOT less than for an all-original 6265. And while my wallet stings, I don't think you could have built this watch with Gen parts for any less than I paid for it. And now I don't suffer the nagging annoyance when I look down at my wrist that things aren't quite perfect. I've seen and handled quite a few aftermarket Daytona cases now, and none of them get the proportions just right. Also the solidity, precision, and resistance while winding the 722 feels worlds different than any V72 or V727 I've owned. It's a much more refined and robust experience, to my mind. Could be that I'm justifying my purchase, as I'm sure someone on this forum will tell me a Franken could be built that matches this watch. In the end, I wanted all Gen parts and I paid for it. But it's fitting that, in some way, the watch is a Franken, as my journey as a watch enthusiast began by piecing together five-digit Datejusts from eBay listings.

 

This watch represents the end of the road for me, honestly. I'm liquidating everything else in my collection at this point, until I've got this 6265 and my trusty Seiko 7002 (plus a G-Shock). I got to ride the collecting and modding hobby up this wild appreciation curve and I truly enjoyed it. But now I'm cashing in my chips. If anybody's interested in my PN Franken Daytona, I'll be posting that for sale in the coming week. Will sell off my Gen watches elsewhere. 

 

 

[automatico]

Superfine Daytona!  Hang on to it.

I missed my chance to buy one new years ago when they cost a whole lot less and I could afford one.  Bought a 1603 and did not wear it much at all, the last time was over 40 years ago.

Missed an affordable used vintage Daytona in the mid 1990s.

 

[tonytuzz]

@freddy333, I'll try to get some better images comparing. I'm not much of a photography guy (in case you couldn't tell!) I'm using an iPhone XR and guess I could buy a cheap light box. 

[SeamasterLux]

May I ask how much that ended up costing you? A beautiful piece, for sure