Gen day date 3055 in datejust case?

[riverrun]

hi guys, came across an old  topic on this matter going back ten years. Apparently Phong can open a datejust case to fit a day date movement, but I don't think he accepts watch parts from other countries, unless I'm mistaken? I dont even know if he is still active on this forum? 

 

I'm therefore hoping someone can explain  what work needs to be done for this mod, or any advice or guidance would be appreciated.

[alligoat]

Years ago I sent Phong a 16000 DJ case. I believe what he did is turn the inside chapter ring (rehaut) so that a 1556 movement would fit in the case. I had a pie pan 1803 dial and I built an 1803 out of stainless steel.

<a target="_blank" href="http://imageshack.com/f/poCtQzdXj"><img src="https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/150x100q90/924/CtQzdX.jpg" border="0"></a>

Don't know if this imageshack pic will show up- my subscription has expired.

It wasn't a cheap build- I spent at least $1000 for the movement and $400 for the dial, and around $2500 for the completed watch. You'd have to find a DJ 16000 case and those are hard to find these days at a fair price.

[URL=http://imageshack.com/f/poCtQzdXj][IMG]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/150x100q90/924/CtQzdX.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[automatico]

"...open a datejust case to fit a day date movement..."

"...what work needs to be done for this mod..."

 

Almost always...the same base movement is used for date and day-date movements of the same brand and basic design (caliber) so any modifying done to a date case to accept a day-date movement is usually done above the stem centerline.

Q...Like what?

A1...Machining the dial seat deeper into the case to accommodate the thicker movement because of the added D-D works.  

A2...You may also need to machine the dial seat to a larger OD if the D-D dial is bigger in diameter than the date dial...ETA 2834-2 with date at 3 and day at 12 compared to 2836-2 with D and D both at 3 for example.  Same basic movement but the 2834-2 has a spacer on the outside of the movement to accommodate the larger in OD day of the week disc. 

ETA 2836-2 diameter overall = 26.0mm,  5.1mm thick.

ETA 2834-2 diameter overall = 29.4mm,  5.25mm thick. 

The 3.4mm larger overall diameter movement usually results in larger dials.

 

If you attempt to install a D-D movement into a case made for a date movement, the stem may be in a bind and if there is a groove machined in the case for case clamps/screws the groove may not be in the correct location for D-D movement clamps/screws.  It basically depends on how thick the movement is above the stem centerline with D-D works compared to the movement with date works.

 

Sometimes the dial opening ID as seen from the front of the case must be enlarged to allow for a larger D-D dial so there are no shrouded markers etc.  This is where trouble can arise if the reflector area (aka rehaut) is not wide enough to allow for machining to a larger ID.

 

All the above is fairly easy to do but the work must be precise and the case must be suitable for the modifications.  As long as there is adequate material in the case to perform the modification, it is not overly difficult IF you have a lathe, some experience, and a steady hand. 

Big IF.   

 

Short story:

In 1995 or 1996 I had a few 'like new' rolex 162xx cases so I machined the dial seat deeper into one so I could put a cal 3035 in it and have a sapphire crystal.  It did not turn out as planned.

1...The sweep second hand rubbed the sapphire crystal because the flat crystal had no 'dome' like the acrylic 135 crystal on 16xxx DJ cases.

2...Shortened the sweep second hand tube to lower the hand and it cleared the crystal but rubbed the minute hand.

3...Lowered the minute hand and it rubbed the markers and was too close to the hour hand.

Etc, etc. 

Result = Basically a no go.

 

The fix?

Put a white 'Buckley' dial in it with printed Roman numerals, no applied markers.  It was Ok but it all ended up going back to the original case and dial later so I could sell it as a 'correct' watch.  

All 36mm case DJ 16xx, 16xxx and 162xx dials are 27.9mm in diameter.  Never tried a 'pie pan' type dial in a 16xxx or 162xx case.  The 'pie pan' shape may raise the movement in the case and cause stem alignment problems etc.

Still have the empty 162xx case. 

 

Q...What will fit in the empty case?

A1...Rlx cal 3035 using a dial without applied markers as stated above.

A2...Rlx cal 1575 date with flat 27mm dial. 

A3...Genuine rlx 3135.  Boooo on that.  Too many movement and parts hassles.

A4...Something with an ETA 2836-2...a 2824-2 is too thin for this modified case but they will usually work in a 162xx oem spec case.

Maybe could make it into an ETA 2836-2 powered DJ with genuine dial etc.  Very reliable with no parts/service hassles.

 

alligoat:

I remember the D-D project.  It turned out very good.  What happened to it?

 

"You'd have to find a DJ 16000 case and those are hard to find these days at a fair price."

Yeah, about $300 or $400 and many are badly corroded around the case/case back thread area.  In my experience the aftmkt DJ cases are hit of miss.  Mostly miss.  Also hard to find one with lug holes now.

 

It's insanity.    

?  to  coming  world  this  is  What

 

 

 

[mymanmatt]

The 3055 is a thick movement. I doubt seriously if the caseback would go on. If it did I think it would lock the rotor down. I’m pretty sure about this. 

[riverrun]

Thanks so much for all the helpful info guys…

so, case would need to be opened up, and glass issues… a domed crystal might work then? I’m going to carefully digest all your input and take it to my horologist, it won’t be easy for sure

[automatico]

"...a domed crystal might work then?"

 

My 'Short story' was only telling about the mess I got into when swapping movements around.  It has nothing to do with your project, it was an example of what can go wrong.

 

The domed acrylic crystal was mentioned when telling why the 3035 would not work in a 16200 case.  Each movement swap will present a unique set of problems when the movements are different thicknesses.  Some can be easily solved, some can not.  My problems were basically solved on this project but it was not worth the trouble imho.

 

mymanmatt makes a good point. 

Before you start on the project, find out all you can about what is involved.

[riverrun]

alligoat... i think its your old post that i stumbled across.... unlike you, i picked the wrong movement, this mod aint happening...

automatico... thank you for all the effort to give such a detailed explanation of what can/cant work, i printed the page for a base reference... the domed crystal was actually

mentioned by my watch guy... but he has also realized that the case has to be opened and he has no experience in that  

 

[alligoat]

Startime Supply has a case for a Rolex 3055 movement- only it's white gold and pretty pricey.

Generic 18K Case for Rolex, -- RMC18K(3055)-W: Star Time Supply

You'd have to buy a few more parts and pick up a suitable dial for a WG 3055 DD. 

It would be a nice watch, but expensive. 

[riverrun]

On 9/8/2021 at 12:18 AM, alligoat said:

Startime Supply has a case for a Rolex 3055 movement- only it's white gold and pretty pricey.

Generic 18K Case for Rolex, -- RMC18K(3055)-W: Star Time Supply

You'd have to buy a few more parts and pick up a suitable dial for a WG 3055 DD. 

It would be a nice watch, but expensive. 

thanks mate, i had a look and would definitely be an awesome build, just wondering if it probably would be close to the price of the real deal on leather in the end? wish they made a steel case... 

[alligoat]

Day Dates have gotten expensive, as have all used Rolexes. 10 years ago you could have picked up a DD for under 10K. That's getting hard to do these days. Back in the day, you maybe could have picked up an 1803 in WG w/o bracelet for $5-7K. Not now.

 

Have you tried checking with Phong to see if he could turn a 16000 DJ and fit a 3055 in it?

[riverrun]

No, how do i get hold of Phong? It would be awesome if i could chat with him

[Timelord]

On 9/7/2021 at 2:15 AM, alligoat said:

Years ago I sent Phong a 16000 DJ case. I believe what he did is turn the inside chapter ring (rehaut) so that a 1556 movement would fit in the case. I had a pie pan 1803 dial and I built an 1803 out of stainless steel.

 

sounds very interesting !!

 

The very first  I have heard of to be a-successful conversion. I know for certain that the 1803 case is thicker than the date just case and to an experienced eye you would notice immediately especially with a pie pan dial that it was not the same as the real DD! Yet a great outcome. I think the llater 3155 movement model DD were thinner

 

On 9/7/2021 at 3:20 AM, mymanmatt said:

The 3055 is a thick movement. I doubt seriously if the caseback would go on. If it did I think it would lock the rotor down. I’m pretty sure about this. 

Yeah!I was under type same impression and  also agree with Automatico!  but it worked for alligoat. I guess his represented a white gold model

[riverrun]

anyone know how i can contact Phong?

[alligoat]

Jewelryandwatch.com

It might help if you sign up and login. 

[riverrun]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:27 AM, alligoat said:

Jewelryandwatch.com

It might help if you sign up and login. 

thanks once again mate... 

[riverrun]

good news guys... Phong said he can do a case for me... I have to however post the movement with dial to him. Anyone recommend which courier to use for international postage?  Has anyone sent watch parts to the US before? Any problems with customs? Any advice would be highly appreciated.  I'm assuming Phong has recieved stuff from international clients before? He did not specify any "do" and "dont's" ?