andreww Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Well thought out and well written. Good place to close the book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I, like many others have been around the replica boards for 5-6 years. I have been the moderator of the biggest replica communities for +4 years. So let's rewind the watch 5-6 years. We are at a place called RWCC. Andrew has just posted some new watches and so has Wade. "Wow....they look great...I love them" This is that the description looked like back then(just an example): Omega Seamaster/black date wheel with white font price $xxxI know exactly what you mean Admin. you have known me for a long time and I was a member of RWCC and one of the first members on TRC (I think my member number is in the low 100's). I bought several watche sfrom Wade and we were mostly ecstatic to get what we got. There was no ultimate this or perfect that. We were happy to get something that was 100 times better than what was sold on the street or at the flea market. I guess I am from the old school because I am still happy to get what I get and amazed at how far we have come. I still don't open the back of my watches, and if one breaks I don't even report it. I take the hobby for what it is, a past time and don't even care much about the specs of a watch. If it looks good there goes my money. If I wanted the whole truth I would buy a genuine. It's not just the quality of the watches that have improved. The "quality" of the replica crowd has also improved. Back when I started, nobody used to open up their watch to "just have a look what's inside". This is especially true. I have learned so much from the members of these forums, not only about replica watches but genuines as well as technical aspects. I don't think I would have learned this much anywhere else. I enjoy this community more than ever. I think however our knowledge has been our detriment. This thread would never have been started on RWCC or the earlier days of TRC. I think the dealers do the best they can and sometimes get caught up in the unclear marketing lingo. At least they stopped using the term "tripple wrapped" and say 5 or 10 microns gold plated. That is a step forward IMO. We also must realize we have a choice of more dealers than ever. Back in the day we had a handful of watch enthusiasts that happened to have some contacts for good replicas. They were exhalted as watch gods and only a few remain from the originals. The newer dealers have created competition and prices are better than ever!!! Take everything for what it is, a Replica watch. Replica is just replica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Thanks Admin for your eloquent take on the subject. Well stated. Now, could you please lock the thread and stop this endless argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 This thread never would have been started at the old RWG or TRC because no one bothered describing anything. We all looked in photobuckets, asked the dealers questions and took our shot. In order to buy from Honpo (the first high end web site) I had to have another forum member who was fluent in Japanese communicate for me. Prices were arbitrary since none were published (other than Paul's - remember that first crazy sale). In truth I respected the priviledge of being able to buy better quality illegal goods. I still do. In any case, time will tell how Andrew and Josh respond. I do hope that dealers reform some of their sales policies but that doesn't change the fact that I have had numerous satisfactory transactions with Josh and even a couple with Andrew. For the record the FM Conquistador 2892 which came from Josh is 100% ETA. It is sitting with Ziggy in pieces as we speak. Perhaps they will go the way of other dealers who add watches only occasionally in order to keep their contact info available on this forum. You folks noticed that one? The number of new watches being posted on this forum by dealers has declined dramatically. I expect that trend to continue. I am glad the administration is taking this seriously. However if the forum were working correctly a dealer would screw up, many negative reviews would be forthcoming and his sales would fall. Obviously that hasn't happened in this case. Is that because people are not dutifully reporting bad transactions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Well said, official word, good night!!!! Let's move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Our Fearless Leader and his alter ego have spoken So let it be written - so let it be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 edit - gonna leave this thread be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Good show, Admin. Nothing else need be said. let's move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brand9avenue Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Lets just be true on what we sale. A watch like this should be released in Swiss ETA 2892 movement and Asian ETA 2892 Clone movement models. So every one get to pick their choice depending on their budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabra Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) Lets just be true on what we sale. A watch like this should be released in Swiss ETA 2892 movement and Asian ETA 2892 Clone movement models. So every one get to pick their choice depending on their budget. Do you state that the 'eta' in your B&R is the clone version? Edited February 2, 2007 by pabra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brand9avenue Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) We stopped selling them when our provider informed us that the 2892 movement used on BR01-94 46mm might be asian as the price on wholesale reflect so. Andrew/Joshua has special contract with the factory in China so all BR01-94 46mm claimed "SWISS" version are sold as exclusive from them. Means that they have absolute control on that specific model watch. While the factory are ok to wholesale to public the smaller size version with ETA 2824 movement and the chronograph version with ETA quartz. Do you state that the 'eta' in your B&R is the clone version? Edited February 2, 2007 by brand9avenue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 @brand9avenue you are not a dealer assocciated with this board please do not self promote here. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brand9avenue Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 The latest quote on Movement price from china. Original ETA 2892 movement is 950 RMB equivalent to $125 US Dolar at today currency exchange While Asian 2892 Clone is 260 RMB equivalent to $33 US Dolar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabra Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 The latest quote on Movement price from china. Original ETA 2892 movement is 950 RMB equivalent to $125 US Dolar at today currency exchange While Asian 2892 Clone is 260 RMB equivalent to $33 US Dolar. Although I agree with Kenberg, I thank You for this information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Thanks Admin for your eloquent take on the subject. Well stated. Now, could you please lock the thread and stop this endless argument? Surely the argument is over because Admin said the forum's official stance. Locking this thread doesn't help anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 http://watchwindersworld.com/fmco10004-con...8922-p-401.html $308 for Swiss ETA 2892. It's not outside the realms of possibility. ETA 2892A2 movements go for USD$ 170 on ofrei. Bear in mind that this is marked up to make a profit for them, and is also priced for the American market - expect it to be cheaper in China, so seeing a watch that is over $200 may be realistic with genuine ETA 2892a2. Don't forget Tourbillon1801 (based in Germany/Switzerland) sells genuine Swiss-made decorated ETA 2892a2 for USD$ 180 - and Swiss-made from Switzerland tend to cost more than the China-made versions. This was in the Franck Muller Solid Gold Casablanca thread as quoted below: i sell both movements in my shop, both movements are genuine SWISS MADE from ETA factory in Switzerland 2824-2 cost 90$ and (decorated) 2892-A2 cost 180$ 2892-A2 ist much more better quality, but not +315$????????????? i have +90$ difference between 2824-2 and decorated 2892-A2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Classic examples that back my point here are the words "kleenex" and "q-tip". These are both copyrighted terms and are items mfg by a specific company (like an ETA movement). But, you don't ask for facial tissue. You ask for a kleenex when you sneeze - even though what you receive is not technically a "kleenex." I ask for a tissue I also don't refer to certain headache relieving pills as Advil, Nyquil (or whatever you call it) but by the actual name on the bottle... However I refer to "doing a Clinton" when inserting a cigar into .... Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 This thread never would have been started at the old RWG or TRC because no one bothered describing anything. We all looked in photobuckets, asked the dealers questions and took our shot. In order to buy from Honpo (the first high end web site) I had to have another forum member who was fluent in Japanese communicate for me. Prices were arbitrary since none were published (other than Paul's - remember that first crazy sale). In truth I respected the priviledge of being able to buy better quality illegal goods. I still do. In any case, time will tell how Andrew and Josh respond. I do hope that dealers reform some of their sales policies but that doesn't change the fact that I have had numerous satisfactory transactions with Josh and even a couple with Andrew. For the record the FM Conquistador 2892 which came from Josh is 100% ETA. It is sitting with The Zigmeister in pieces as we speak. Perhaps they will go the way of other dealers who add watches only occasionally in order to keep their contact info available on this forum. You folks noticed that one? The number of new watches being posted on this forum by dealers has declined dramatically. I expect that trend to continue. I am glad the administration is taking this seriously. However if the forum were working correctly a dealer would screw up, many negative reviews would be forthcoming and his sales would fall. Obviously that hasn't happened in this case. Is that because people are not dutifully reporting bad transactions? :clap3: :clap3: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I also believe in giving our two best dealers the benefit of the doubt--as drop shippers they're probably going more by descriptions given them by their supplier/manufacturer, than they are from hands-on, self-discovery. The B&R project might have been a [censored]-up, but at least someone cared enough to try to give to us what we wanted; something that no one else had, and something that didn't exist before. The problem is that we know that the final product was seen before release - remember the delay because they weren't happy with the strap and had it sent back to be fixed until they were satisfied? The fact that the movement was not shown and the word games now being played... I don't know. I'm just happy those fake stamped screws on the caseback put me off (as well as lack of money as ever!). On another note, can these B&R's now be fitted with genuine ETA 2892 ? Say for example someone like The Zigmeister or finepics could out in a genuine ETA 2892, would the hands fit? That may be some small shred of hope in this watch to the current owners, if it is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 So let it be written - so let it be done To kill the first born Pharaoh's son? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Kind of worked out well, didn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Although I agree with Kenberg, I thank You for this information I know Kevin's had his knuckles rapped for another minor rule infringement, but I think in this case Ken was a bit harsh. As long as no-one is circumventing the dealer process by advertising specific items while posing as a 'lay member' as it were I don't see any problems with p9b (Kevin) chipping in. In fact the information on exclusive contracts, relative costs of movements, and supply of certain watches is quite enlightening. It is brave of a 'dealer' to share that sort of info with us as it damages their ability to hide their markup. Honesty and all that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I do hope this thread is locked down. The admin has made his statement. He has found the feedback useful. But nothing new by anyone (myself included, of course) has been said in quite a while. If people are determined to carry on until the bitter end, you will never have a sense of how upset folks really are until you take a vote. Here are the categories: 1.Ban the Dealers in Question 2.Allow them to stay if they fix blatantly wrong descriptions on the forum 3.No one cares, we want access to the dealers I will bet you will be surprised at the practical response to all this righteous indignation. And by the way being able to vote anonymously is a good thing. That is how democracies work. I won't start this poll as IMHO this is significant enough that it is the Admin's call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Ah, just got to the end of the thread, my replies above (on page 10) were to earlier posts before I got to the Admin's post etc...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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