The Legality Of Replicas

[Pugwash]

I keep reading posts in which people state what they believe the law in their country is as if it's fact and it can be quite confusing. It inspired me to start this thread and encourage people who actually know what the law is to post their knowledge so we can stop guessing and bickering over assumptions. Hopefully the title will make it easily found by searches.

I'll start.

Here in France, along with Italy, possession of a replica is illegal. There are trained customs agents who can recognise certain counterfeit goods at a distance. We have no right to retain goods that are known to be counterfeit, and the burden of proof is exactly the same as with stolen goods whereby it is up to us to prove our goods are neither stolen nor counterfeit. So, if you decide to state that owning a replica is not illegal, please do so with the caveat that it is only not illegal in your country.

If you get caught with a replica in Italy, for instance, you can be fined heavily. They're not afraid of making very visible examples of people to drive this point home.

I'm moving to the UK in a month. Does anyone know the actual UK law on owning counterfeits?

So, where's Bill to tell our US friends where they actually stand as opposed to where they think they stand?

[t]

in germany is selling AND buying of reps illegal

but if you wear few watches, they makes no problems. But if you order counterfeits per post... they will be confiscated from customs. NO CHANCE

when you come home from holiday... allowed counterfei products of 175euro. Over 175,- will be held from customs (175,- isn´t only for watches... all items like T-Shirts, Jeans, etc etc etc)

[andreww]

Canadian government inaction has effectively

handcuffed its law enforcement agencies is at the border. Canadian customs officers in the

CBSA lack statutory authority to seize even obviously counterfeit products as they enter

Canada. Unless a court order has been previously obtained8, only the RCMP can carry out an

ex officio seizure, and coordination between the two agencies is generally not effective. As a

result, virtually no seizures at the border have occurred, and Canada’s borders are effectively

wide open to imports of pirate CDs, DVDs or videogames and other infringing materials.

In Canada, anyone who commits one of the following is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for up to two years (sections 406, 408 and 412, Criminal Code of Canada (R.S.C. 1985)):

-forging a trade mark;

-intending to deceptively pass off his goods as those ordered or required;

selling goods that are false in relation to:

-type;

-quality;

-composition; or

-geographic origin.

However, in Canada there has been very little use of criminal law procedure to prevent counterfeit goods.

An interesting read...

http://www.cacn.ca/PDF/CACN%20Position%20P...006%20Clean.pdf

As far as I can tell there is no law against purchasing reps.

[MAHLER]

in germany is selling AND buying of reps illegal

but if you wear few watches, they makes no problems. But if you order counterfeits per post... they will be confiscated from customs. NO CHANCE

Same in Italy !!!

[rsv123]

Interesting article here:

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6925

Covers the fake watch/handbag/etc industry and also some of the recent attempts to crack down on it (apologies if it was already posted, searched and couldn't find it).

[Everythingape]

I'll give Norway a try:

NORWAY: Very liberal laws

Sometimes used as a transit country.

Companies who want their trademarks to be illegal to replicate/counterfeit/use etc need to apply for a "temporary precautionary conjunction"(TPC).. (Midlertidig forføying in norwegian). This will last for 12 months, and then they have to apply for a new one.

If the company does not have a valid TPC registered, customs and police is instructed to let the goods pass as legal goods. (Unless, of course, it's represented as genuine)

It basically means they can't touch you unless the trademark is protected by a TPC.

If they do have one, penalties are non-existant for the common man, prison time is upto 3 months (conditional) for the big time dealers who also get rather small fines.

Norwegian members feel free to correct me in PM (so we don't clutter this topic up), and I'll change whatever we agree on.

[rag9fx]

according to the H.M. Revenue and Customs ( U.K) here any/all counterfiet goods are on the prohibited goods list and therefore are prohibited from being imported into the uk...

and according to uk law anything to do with unauthorized use of intellectual property for comercial gain it is completely illeagal ... ie: trading replicas is illegal... possesion .. hmm... i presumed condoned ... just as long as you aren't crossing international boarders.

Edited to add this little tid bit :

In the U.K. purchasing pirated goods (counterfiet items, replicas bearing unlicenced trademarks ) is considered theft ...

( god this is a drepressing thread )

this reminded me of a winter many years ago when i was in the Philippines and was having a conversation with my cousin who was into his diving and wanted a Seamaster he saw the fantasy submariner i was sporting ... the blue/blue on stainless and noticed the cornet on the crown and said ' wow ... nice watch i can tell it isn't fake since there is logo on the winder... its illeagal for the copies to do that they have to leave the winder and the back blank' oddly i enough it isn't the first time i have heard somthing like this ... in New York a hand full of ing-nunt ppl told me a similar thing - essentially it is perfectly legit to have a rolex dial .. just as long as the rest of the watch dosn't have any rolex marks on it ... i was laughing inside thinking to my self where they come up with these theories of legitimate fakes its such a rediculous notion.

Edited February 23, 2007 by rag9fx

[Pugwash]

( god this is a drepressing thread )

Yes, it is, I'm afraid. However, hopefully it'll be full of useful legal things that'll only need to rear their ugly heads when searched for.

[archibald]

Bill's calrified the US law in many other threads. What I can add is this:

I recently saw (via a rep collecting pal who works on the Hill) some proposed legislation that would essentially make posession make all counterfeit goods a federal crime, subject to confiscation and a fine with possession of more than a few pieces triggering a prison term (to make enforcement against small time street dealers easier, I assume since you just catch them with a few crappy rolexes, whether they are tryng to sell them or no, and haul them in). My understanding is that it is unlikely to pass because it is contained in a bill that lots of US exporters and importers don't like for other reasons. Hilariously, the luxury goods industry tried to piggyback increased trademark protection onto various anti-terror bills w/o success, which is how the "Reps fund evildoers meme" started. My take is that if the industry spends enough money they'll be able to get something through, since "demand" deterrence is pretty popular whenever the suppliers of whatever we think we ought to deter are too powerful, useful, or amorphous to go after, e.g. our opium-growing warlord pals in Afghanistan and our national bankers, the Chinese.

[tenacious_b]

I am in Texas so my law is the government can kiss my ass and they can have my watches when they pry them from my cold dead fingers.

[chris5264]

Is there a difference between replica watches and other goods? I only mention this because in the US, there is a store not far from me that is actually called something like "replicas r us" and they are totally open about selling replica purses and other items but I don't think they carry watches. If this was enforced in the US, I can't see how a large store in the mall could operate so much in the open.

[tenacious_b]

Is there a difference between replica watches and other goods? I only mention this because in the US, there is a store not far from me that is actually called something like "replicas r us" and they are totally open about selling replica purses and other items but I don't think they carry watches. If this was enforced in the US, I can't see how a large store in the mall could operate so much in the open.

There were a couple in malls here in Austin, that went unchecked for a long time, but eventually got shut down and charged.

[Cats]

In Holland it's illegal to buy, sell import or export rep's.

When you own or wear a rep I don't know for sure what will happen ( must likely nothing ).

The only exception that the customs make is when you enter the country coming back form a holiday or business trip.

Then your allowed the "import" 3 rep watches, I have to find out if there is maximum value attached to that but who can determine the value of a rep.

The only reason why they allow you to do this is that lots of people are buying watches in "normal" jewelry stores not knowing it's a rep. To my opinion this is bs. Everybody who buys a watch with a well known name on it for 50 euro's in a fancy store knows it's fake.

When you get caught by the customs normally they ask you if you want to get rid of the watch voluntarily and then the case is closed.

Unless you encounter an eager beaver who has to make a career like I did 6 weeks ago who will arrange a court order for you .

Regards,

Cats

[jeff g]

Does this mean that if I am wearing my rep Pam 112 in Italy, and someguy decides to look at it closely, and determines that it is a fake, I can be arrested?

Are there people that are actually running around looking at watches in the cafes all day, or are we talking about going thru customs. If I am wearing a personal watch on my wrist, some guy can make me take it off to examine it? I find that hard to believe.

[archibald]

Does this mean that if I am wearing my rep Pam 112 in Italy, and someguy decides to look at it closely, and determines that it is a fake, I can be arrested?

Are there people that are actually running around looking at watches in the cafes all day, or are we talking about going thru customs. If I am wearing a personal watch on my wrist, some guy can make me take it off to examine it? I find that hard to believe.

Not every country has the 4th amendment.

[HauteHippie]

I am in Texas so my law is the government can kiss my ass and they can have my watches when they pry them from my cold dead fingers.

Now this guy I like!!

[Guest TTK]

I like this topic Puggy......it might finally make it clear to a lot of members that the "hobby" we are involved in is indeed ILLEGAL.......and carries 'risk'......especially for those members in France / Italy......and the US.....( especially anyone who is dealing in fakes)......!

[solicitor]

Essentially under California criminal law, simple possession of counterfeit items (which are otherwise lawful), is lawful unless one has an intent to sell or defraud.

[Romp]

Essentially under California criminal law, simple possession of counterfeit items (which are otherwise lawful), is lawful unless one has an intent to sell or defraud.

In Australia the only items I have heard being confiscated is if you bring in a large amount or if you are selling fake goods.

If you bring one or two for yourself they dun care.. they have bigger fish to fry.

[1976]

I am planing to go to Italy next month.So if i wear a replica on my wrist i will have problem on customs;

[Pugwash]

In Australia the only items I have heard being confiscated is if you bring in a large amount or if you are selling fake goods.

If you bring one or two for yourself they dun care.. they have bigger fish to fry.

Yup, exactly the kind of hearsay this thread is designed to combat.

[Pugwash]

I am planing to go to Italy next month.So if i wear a replica on my wrist i will have problem on customs;

Will? No idea. There is a possibility, yes. Every time you leave the US with a fancy watch, you could be facing problems returning with it, replica or genuine, unless you filed a form declaring the serial number before leaving.

As for wearing a replica through European customs, yes, there is a risk.

[TWP]

So, where's Bill to tell our US friends where they actually stand as opposed to where they think they stand?

Would that be Mr. Vest? The offshore driller?

[Pugwash]

Would that be Mr. Vest? The offshore driller?

Nope, Bill the detective: TJGladeRaider.

[Everythingape]

Pugwash, how about setting the first post up with short essentials for each country? Would that make sense?

Selling, buying, Import, export and wearing one on your wrist?

This would make a great reference post for people throwing around assumptions.