Time to Resurrect the Stoneage?

[Edge]

Hey Guys,

First off hello again, been a while since I have posted anything, i'm still alive don't worry. To all my many friends from the boards, HELLO!! I still luv ya you know who you are.

Now to business. I think that the time has come to go back in time a bit. Unfortunately for one reason or another we are being targetted, either by some of our own, or by those who despise our hobby. Either way it's time to act, IMHO.

We have been lazy, and taken for granted all of the things that use to make this community great. We have taken for granted the ease with which we can illicit ILLEGAL goods. Well I say NO MORE. The names of the FORUMS (Plural) should be changed to remove Replica for them, and the meta tags and keywords should not include replica, or any manufacturer names. Obviously this will dramatically affect the amount of new members and hits the site gets, but in the long run it is IMHO best for the community as a whole. We will limit the amount of arseholes who come here post once if at all, and order from a dealer, it doesn't arrive in 4 days, or isn't 100% exact to genuine so file complaints and make life hard for dealers.

The use of Paypal is gone, but that is not the topic of this thread, at least with PP we had security over demanding quality of service, but this has been abused beyond breaking point. So we go back to blackmarket efforts of cash up front, with no safety blanket, which to be fair is (I Imagine, of course) how much illegal dealing is done.

I am disappointed that it has come to the point where it has been ruined for us but greed and gluttony are two of mankind's greatest flaws. It's time to take action and attempt to prevent anymore major issues.

Of course we are never not going to have the community, not in days of offshore hosting etc. But I ask you how much fun the forum will be with no dealers, and nowhere to buy new watches, there is only so much we can talk about regarding the watches in our collections. Convo's like "Oh look at this ??? I wish we could still buy reps, cos a rep of this would be great" SUCKS!!!

Wneed to keep the ability to buy new watches, or the forum will wither and die, with only the true veterans hanging on for the memories, and the idle everday chit chat among friends who have now known each other quite some time.

Please don't make this about PP or any other payment method that is relatively immaterial, this day was coming and the sooner we do something about it the better.

Enjoy!

Edge

[colinmgzt]

I do agree the time has come to act for the good of the forum,

however it would appear that the doors have already opened on the trojan horse

and those who would see damage done to the forum are already amongst us.

Now it would appear to be a damage limitation exercise.

of what shape or form this needs to take, I have no idea.

with regards to hiding the public face of the board, yes, I also agree that perhaps it would prevent

more damage from people wanting to axe grind over ridiculous "problems"

However. will preventing growth in new members not in itself cause the Boards to grow stale

Even at the moment I dont see as much posting, perhaps because of nothing new on the horizon, or

most topics have been beaten to death by existing members.

It is time for change, but it will take some serious consideration as to what form this will have to take.

cheers

Colin

[Corgi]

The only chance we have is to start over. To take all of the trusted people on this board and create a new community. A secret community. A community without noobs, without evildoers, but just with those whom we share fascination for the art of replica horlogerie.

[cjeffers58]

Agreed, we should move the boards to a different server and change the web address. Then only invite the members currently enrolled, any new members should come from a trusted member's invite, this would put it more underground and away from the rep police.

[Edge]

Making it a secret isn't a good idea, and choosing who is worthy is not an enviable task. Who decides if you are eligible to be informed of the new forum?? Who is trusted enough?? see where I am going, elitism isn't an option.

I am merely suggesting that we make it more difficult to find through search engines, so that any dipshit that types in replica sub doesn't end up here or RWI/TRC.

We want to limit exposure by selecting our keywords, not make a new super secret forum founded on elitism and a class system, these are not foundations for the kind of community I would like to be associated with.

Edge

[Watchmeister]

The Stoneage cannot be resurrected except in our minds in our little forum. It may feel like it is more difficult for us but in truth the higher end rep business (which is very different from the lower end one) is getting much larger not smaller. Now Chinese manufacturers are making dedicated movements, doing runs of a thousand forcing distributors to take hundreds forcing dealers to take 50 piece minimums. And to make it worse the next generation of the same watch comes out ever quicker. The unintended victims are likely going to be the smaller dealers. The fact that Paypal is catching on is a symptom of this excessive growth and not because noobs are complaining about our dealers. Sitting here today we have 4-5 readily available website dealers and a number of niche players who will do well if they differentiate their product. Yes Paypal may no longer be viable but people are taking moneybookers, western union, credit cards and of course cash.

I agree that it is infuriating that noobs make life more difficult for dealers, idiots insist on posting on gen forums and a couple of infuriated gen lovers can make it a little more difficult but that is no reason to run and hide. Because we can't. Ever searched on you screen name? As for setting up a secret society or invited members-only forum we are doing for ourselves - not to save the rep industry. It is doing just fine by itself.

[Edge]

We have a limited pool of dealers, but good dealers that we can trust, we do not need the publicity that Google etc. brings. We have a good community in which we know the main players and we try our best to educate and help as best possible (most of the time). So it is as good a time as any to stop being so readily available on google etc. I'm not saying run and hide, i'm not saying that the rep industry is under threat, i'm just saying that I think for the betterment of the community that we have and to preserve the longstanding dealers that we have, we should CONSIDER not being readily searchable for anyone with 2 seconds and the word replica.

If you check google for rep watches you get us RWI and TRC in the first page, this is why we have had such a massive rise in members and also IMHO a massive rise in issues. We again in my opinion would be better off not being as highly accessible.

However these are just my thoughts, I amn't in anyway saying we are doomed or that the rep industry is coming to and end cos it aint.

Edge

[Watchmeister]

The question is whether it is practical? And what is the alternative. Then again I have never understood whether clicks from google or whatever makes a material contribution to the budget here.

[robertk]

Luv the idea. BUT it's impractical. We can't hide anymore. Even if we could, the dealers rep sites are out in the open. They are the targets. We've always had Noobs. They always caused a certain amount of problems. I think were just witnessing the next step which is that more pressure is being put on this illegal trade. It's going to continue no matter what is done. But they can never really shut it down.

............and we really can't hide.

[fotoman]

The only chance we have is to start over. To take all of the trusted people on this board and create a new community. A secret community. A community without noobs, without evildoers, but just with those whom we share fascination for the art of replica horlogerie.

You mean TRC?

[SuperTacks]

I have been concerned about this as well Enzo. I echo your sentiments.

[Bigdoggy]

Well said Edge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TwoTone]

The only chance we have is to start over. To take all of the trusted people on this board and create a new community. A secret community. A community without noobs, without evildoers, but just with those whom we share fascination for the art of replica horlogerie.

Ummm...

Corgi...

Not sure you would be invited...

You my friend are indeed a "Noob"...

And a non-supporting member...

Threads like these you should consider leaving alone...

TT

[Watchmeister]

[aeroflott]

I joined this forum not long ago, and I have to say I was very surprised at how easy it was to join and start using dealers and such.

Not that I'm complaining (I've purchased several reps and learned an awful lot), but as people have already pointed out, persons with a desire to disrupt what goes on here would find it pretty easy to stir things up.

T

[fotoman]

I joined this forum not long ago, and I have to say I was very surprised at how easy it was to join and start using dealers and such.

Not that I'm complaining (I've purchased several reps and learned an awful lot), but as people have already pointed out, persons with a desire to disrupt what goes on here would find it pretty easy to stir things up.

T

We must not forget that the ease of access to product is wholly on the dealer's shoulders. We can not control it. They have a business model that they want to follow. They take the risk of exposing themselves only to the point that they feel they can make the $$ they want.

It is definatly true that the casual poster in the "old days" had a very tuff time sorting through all the noise to find a place to buy. Communicating was done on a 1 to 1 basis and the "big walmart size" website was not 100% reliable.

If the dealers want to take things underground, it would be very easy for the forum to adapt to whatever format they like.

if we made a new site and used all kinds of code words - Perfect Clones would still be easy to find

[Watchmeister]

Actually, I don't think the dealers have much option other than to go "public". As I mentioned earlier, the manufacturers have stepped up production big time and the distributors and dealers now have much higher minimums and shorter product cycles resulting in shorter time frames to get rid of the last version. You either go big or go broke. Alternatively a dealer can take a niche strategy but that will severely limit their offerings. It is a very different rep world. Eighteen months ago a run of a thousand for anything other than a cheap Rolex was unthinkable. Now it is the norm across many brands. We do get better aesthetic reps across a broader spectrum of brands this way. It turns out the rep business is no different from any other. Mom and Pop to large scale with room for the niche providers. Our forum is a hiccup whether we keep it private or not. What it does do is jeopardize some of our smaller veteran dealers (Eddie, River, etc.) who remain small and often have day jobs. But I am in favor of anything that protects them.

[TwoTone]

@K

Agreed...

TT

[TwoTone]

One thing that's always troubled me is, (and this is in no way a slam on Thomas, for i understand why it' is this way), the near complete lack of desie for people to name names in a place like this.

If someone is scamming people openly, as anyone older than a year on any of the boards has seen, they should be NAMED. Why, in the name of "civility" do we not simply cast out the people we know are damaging this little utopian environment?

the community is largely self-policing anyway, and posting the "I was ripped off by another member but i'm not goign to tell anyone who it is" stance is just silly.

There is NOTHING from the Admin Team here that stops the membership from "Naming Names"...

It has been, and always will be a personal chose of the Member...

TT

[TwoTone]

PS: The only encouragement that we've always stressed, is that the issue should FIRST be attempted to be solved in private [PM's]...

And to be patient...

TT

[Pugwash]

One thing that's always troubled me is, (and this is in no way a slam on Admin, for i understand why it' is this way), the near complete lack of desie for people to name names in a place like this.

It stems, in my opinion, from not wanting to badmouth dealers, as you don't want the dealer to stop selling to you. I am a firm believer in naming names just so you actually help your fellow members, especially as there are plenty of other dealers and members willing to sell stuff to you.

[eddhead]

One thing that's always troubled me is, (and this is in no way a slam on Admin, for i understand why it' is this way), the near complete lack of desie for people to name names in a place like this.

If someone is scamming people openly, as anyone older than a year on any of the boards has seen, they should be NAMED. Why, in the name of "civility" do we not simply cast out the people we know are damaging this little utopian environment?

the community is largely self-policing anyway, and posting the "I was ripped off by another member but i'm not goign to tell anyone who it is" stance is just silly.

Many of us either have knowledge or have valid theories on the PayPal incidents and some of the other troubles. (it's certainly nothing new).

if we can't handle a little disacreement and trumoil in the effort to make it a better place, well then, we deserve what we get. Being "nice" and courteous to people is a far different thing that calling out someone who's damaging it for the rest of us. If we know what's going on.....sticking our collective head in the sand and saying nothing for fear of offending someone is just.....stupid.

actually this has nothing to do with the thread's theme which is weather or not to go underground, but for what it is worth, while i agree that people hesitate to call out bad behavior, i would not put the onus for this on the admins/moderators. people who do not call out do so because they are afraid of being flamed or because they are concerned about dealers working with them going forward. I mean I agree with you.. provided all other means have been tried to work things out privately first, if you have a legitimate complaint you should post it. But the cuture itself has nothing to do with the admins, it is the members themselves flaming other members. Maybe it took someone as established here as pub with the 'White Lies' thread to change the culture a bit. We'll see. Sorry, but that is the way it is.

[Pugwash]

Maybe it took someone as established here as pub with the 'White Lies' thread to change the culture a bit. We'll see. Sorry, but that is the way it is.

... and I got a lot of hassle for that.

[eddhead]

... and I got a lot of hassle for that.

.. i know you did , but not from everyone

[Tim]

Agreed, we should move the boards to a different server and change the web address. Then only invite the members currently enrolled, any new members should come from a trusted member's invite, this would put it more underground and away from the rep police.

Unfortunately, you'll then move the problem with the board if you move all the current members. I don't know what the solution is. Perhaps, just perhaps we ought to try something we use in networking called a honeypot. Have a front board that only talks about the mods, general discussion, everything EXCEPT selling or trading reps. That way RWG can still fulfill its mission of informing and steering people away from the rip off sites. Save the trading and dealing to a seperate board that is invite only. Learn about the people in the general board and then once they have proved their interest and established some sort of reputation, invite them over to the trade board.

Just an thought....

/Tim

Edited March 5, 2007 by Tim