Perhaps it's just me . . .

[Tim]

Well I am still relatively new on this particular board but have been hanging around a lot lately. Some observations and some advice.

First, I've been working with computer networks now for going on 25 years. This is one on a long line of "forums" I've hung my hat in. I was doing BBSs back in the 80s over telephone lines. This exact same discussion comes up on every board repeatedly. You have one group of rather frisky individuals come along and raise a ruckus. You have another group of peace loving people that actively voice the opinion of can't we just get along and why does it have to devolve into a rabble. And you have a third group that all passively sits around and watches--social voyeurs I guess you can call them. Eventually the loudmouths, er ah sorry, the more active participants burn themselves out. The peaceable folks are sick and disgusted and walk away vowing never to return. With these two groups gone, the board is dead and then the social voyeurs leave as well.

Then either one of two things happens. Either all the people that were here before start to trickle back because they miss the camaraderie even though "these people frustrate me to no end." Some of the more extreme firebrands are usually the first ones back with their tails tucked in saying how sorry, how much I missed, blah blah blah. The peaceable folks roll the eyes and basically offer a group hug. And then the leaches, er ah, social voyeurs come back to watch.

OR.....the board dies. Everyone moves on to another board. Maybe a board with a similar topic or maybe everyone scatters to something different.

I do not know the history of RWG1 and RWG2, but doesn't this all sound familiar????

The thing to me is that everyone needs to remember that these cyber social constructs are very much a living thing. And just like a dog with fleas, eventually everyone figures out a way to get along--sort of. Just like in real life there are arguments and friends. Some conspiracies and lots of sneaking around. Everyone talking about everyone else. Some people who

[Stephane]

Gentelmean and ladies, don't let it get you down, as the old saying goes, time heals all

Yes

[ubiquitous]

The age of innocence is lost... We're going through growing pains as a forum. Change is inevitable, and not always for the best.

I've been feeling burned out for quite some time now.

[who]

I'm very late to this hobby and probably not qualify to common the changing climate you guys see from the old days.

My guess is the rep business has rapidly growth in the past year or 2 due to internet sale and technology.... the relationship between members and some dealers has start to change from watch enthusiasts oriented to strictly BUSINESS. Tell me if I wrong but I think it is pretty typical what happen on almost any type of start up business once they expand quickly in a short term? The environment is different and no doubt there has some big changed on the Supply side and I think we as a consumer (Demand side) also need to change as well. We need to level the playing field.

I wish what happen today is just a bump for everyone, if we can convince our dealers to face the issue and correct it. This will be win-win situation for all of us.

[By-Tor]

The age of innocence is lost... We're going through growing pains as a forum. Change is inevitable, and not always for the best.

I've been feeling burned out for quite some time now.

I've said it before: It's because you have all the watches you ever wanted. I'm pretty much in the same position myself.

[Guest chronomat123]

I agree, Bill.

I, for one, have pretty much gone back to collecting gens. I enjoy RWG, still, and stick around to see the new reps, but I'm pretty much done with reps, except for that new IWC Aquatimer.

[Spatten1]

I've been on RWG 1 and here for about 8 months. I have a few reps from a couple of different dealers.

All of the "issues" have definitley blossomed since I first found the group last summer.

It is making me want to focus more on PMWF and stick to gens.

However, I must say, that this group is much more intellectual and interesting than the other on-line forum I visit (brand specific motorcycle site). I really like the community here and think of it as a sharp and helpful group of people. The "issues" are just getting to me.

[ryyannon]

I've said it before: It's because you have all the watches you ever wanted. I'm pretty much in the same position myself.

Maybe it's time for us to move on to bottle-caps and marbles?

Nice vintage model here:

[ahchard]

I agree... which is why I have been posting a lot less lately...

[By-Tor]

Maybe it's time for us to move on to bottle-caps and marbles?

Yeah, or alternatively enjoy what we already have. That's the human nature... we always want more, better, cheaper... and we want it now! And after we finally get it we're still not satisfied: the hour marker is 0.1mm crooked to the left.

Life sucks in every possible way: When we're barchelors we complain about it. And when we get married it's even worse.

[HauteHippie]

Enough is a enough. I'll drink to that. Time to take action, live with that action, and move forward.

Thank you for the thoughtful post, Bill.

[ryyannon]

Divorce your wife; sell the house!

You're looking at the future here: nothing but good times ahead!

[ubiquitous]

I've said it before: It's because you have all the watches you ever wanted. I'm pretty much in the same position myself.

Indeed- Hobbies only stay interesting as long as there's something to do, something to be had or something to be sought after. I remain optimistic that something will come along to rekindle the flame... But in the bigger picture, it's not really about the watches any longer, but more about the friendships made that keeps me around

[Rxus]

Yes this thread is a much needed one, as my only post to that other hate filled thread was commenting on the idea of pitchforks and torches, I jumped on here mid January and things didn't appear this way, I trully hope when the dust settles everything will be back to normal.

BTW very good point in reminding everyone that this hobby isn't excatly like collecting baseball cards (unless you consider forged Babe Ruth Autographed cards)

Sometimes people think these dealers are an AD and in reality most dealers go well beyond their duty to satisfy a customer and in all reality thats what makes the price of a gen what it is...service.

[dosanim]

WEll, Bill. It's not just you. Back in RWG1 days, it was delightful and fun experience to learn about watches. Members discussed difference between Rep vs Gen watches, not so much about I paid how much and this is what I got type of post. Many posts were about sharing thoughts and exchange of informations (with occasional TTK's fireworks and Bricky's grilling session for good reasons). I had a chance to drop by Tourneau today and tried on Subs and Ferrari PAMs. It is just that despite of price, gen is gen and rep is rep. When you lose curiosity and enthusiasm, it becomes nothing more than forum for ranting buyer's remorse. I hope that this forum will return to its root soon. Always enjoy yout post and insight, Bill.

[Jetsons]

Geat post and I totally agree, Bill!

I've seen things get a bit rough in the past and during those times, the forum seems to forget that we are here to enjoy a common hobby among friends. Those of us that have been around for a bit know darn well that there are some terrifc folks here. The good news is that things have always managed to cool down and we return to the reason we are here ...fun, friends, learning and great watches!

I also agree that there have been problems in the method certain watches have been marketed. On the flip side, I'm not too keen on the demeanor and language that was used in some of the posts. I am sure that calm/cool heads will prevail & arrive at a solution that address the majority of issues raised plus maintain the terrific sources of watches that we have all enjoyed.

[jkerouac]

These things go in waves, both for us as individuals and as a community.

There are times when you wonder why you waste your time with the "bozos" who are making life unpleasant, or you imagine that you have enough watches to satisfy your collecting bug for the next 10 years (hey, it could happen).

But then the community settles down and becomes fun again, and ... shock of shocks.... there are another two or three or four watches that you just have to have.

By the way, does anyone remember the old Firesign Theater album, "We're All Bozos on This Bus"? Perhaps I'll add that as my signature and motto.

[RWG Technical]

Are you telling me that you can relume five MBWs and change the crowns/tubes in an afternoon?!?!

Although I have made this point time and again elsewhere, I don't care if you can do it in five minutes with a twitch of your nose, payment for value received is worth the same to me no matter what your costs or time invested -- I just want to be clear in my mind that I understand you. I could easily imagine you swapping the crowns and tubes in a day as I could probably do that myself - I just cannot get the job done to where they function so smoothly as you do.

The lume job completely baffles me. I have examined your work under a loop, and I see what you've done, but even if I could apply that stuff that precisely, the effort to do one watch would wear me out for the day.

I am good, but not that good:)

I will start on them Saturday afternoon, but it will late the following week before they are done, after spending most of the weekend and evenings at the bench...it's a time consuming process which takes a lot of concentration.

I can only do one lume at a time, and then I have to take a break, the eyes, depth perception, and steadyness, all suffer after each dial.

Installing the crowns is my break from the luming.

RG

[deltatahoe]

regardless of the amount of time it takes, the work you do is nothing short of incredible ziggy.

[deltatahoe]

These things go in waves, both for us as individuals and as a community.

[...]

But then the community settles down and becomes fun again, and ... shock of shocks.... there are another two or three or four watches that you just have to have.

totally agreed re: things going in waves -- i went a solid stretch of four or five months without really wanting any new watches (pam straps seemed to fill in the void nicely though ), but that changed pretty quickly with all of these new super-reps that have come out recently (chronomat evolution, big bang, pilot chrono, ultimate 45mm po, steelfish, etc)...

i also agree with all that's been said about the mood of the board -- let's keep it positive & remember how good we have it here!

deltatahoe

[offshore]

My oh my.... I know what you guys are talking about. Thing is that I'm not into reps anymore since quite a long time now.... I guess the main reason why I'm still around the boards is that I've got to know a lot of really great guys during the time I spent. The other reason is that I'm still a watch geek of course... only I came to the conclusion that gen watches are the better way to spend your money - so far it was the right decision.

I'm mostly seen at TRC now, RWG is simply too fast for me I kinda like the pace of TRC, that's how it should be.

Some of the things said in the "Cartel"-Thread shouldn't be said though.... I guess you're right about that Bill.

Peace!

Well if I was to add my lot to this discussion, the above quote would paraphrase me exactly (except I hang around here)

I truly just continue to learn from all the great people here.. enough to warrent me spending a few hours each day helping out with the Mod work ( just like Bricky @TRC).

Forums ebb and flow ( just don't know whether we are ebbing or flowing right now )

I'm sure sanity will return soon!

Offshore

[TJGladeRaider]

regardless of the amount of time it takes, the work you do is nothing short of incredible ziggy.

That's no joke, but I am glad to hear that I misunderstood. It's bad enough having someone do things that you couldn't begin to do yourself, but thinking they can do it blindfolded, standing on their head, while shuffling cards with their toes just makes it worse.

Bill

[oakland]

I think everyone reading and adding to this post shares the same good sentiments about the group of people that make up this forum. Cheers to that! It's what makes us all come back time and again, even when we know that there's no new watch to look at tomorrow. I come back every day to laugh at some funny reference, or a pic someone threw up. (and honestly the hope of a new AP RO). I enjoy the type of people interacting on the board. But, I have a hard time missing a 25 page post filled with resentment and fiery discussion. I read most of it, but the bottom line it that is keeps me from wanting to check the general discussion board. I come here to have fun, get away from drama and the seriousness of regular life, as well as to learn about my new hobby. I personally think that the post should be moved to the dealer review section. Let all of those concerned with dealers read and write about it there. Leave the general discussion board for precisely that, the discussion we all enjoy. Short of that, I'm just going to spend less and less time on the board until it comes around again.

Keep in mind, I think it's a viable and important topic to dicuss, but I don't know if it belongs in general discussion. Let's get back to the wristchek's, the info on custom's and all of the new things hitting the replica world. Put dealer reviews and concerns good or bad in the dealer review section.

Regards,

Oakland

[Nebakanezzar]

You know, I said the exact same thing the other day and got busted for it.....granted I summed it up in one sentence

[Richard Tracy]

Nice little group hug going on here, however, there are times when someone

must address the cancers that eat away at the very reasons our boards exist.

Left unchecked can grow and eventually turn our community inside out.

During these calling out times, yes it gets ugly, but that's life,... and makes

the smooth times all the better by contrast...

We can't simply bury our heads in the sand, and bask in the relationships that we may

have personally built up with certain dealers, while new members get the shaft.

Imo....