robertk Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Nice little group hug going on here, however, there are times when someone must address the cancers that eat away at the very reasons our boards exist. Left unchecked can grow and eventually turn our community inside out. During these calling out times, yes it gets ugly, but that's life,... and makes the smooth times all the better by contrast... We can't simply bury our heads in the sand, and bask in the relationships that we may have personally built up with certain dealers, while new members get the shaft. Imo.... Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Well I spent most of today busy and away from the board for the majority of the day...this was a first in long time. I was well...surprised to see this thread as after last night was thinking along these lines. I spent some a while in the "cartel" thread last night, which when it was over reminded me of a mosh pit from long ago...I voiced my opinions, played some devils advocate and in the end inadvertently [censored] off the Admin team (we're good now Offshore got your PM), and had to take [censored] from someone with 13 posts and 12 minutes as a member here. Now I'm no one special here...by any means. I can't fix watches...I can't do mods and I probably still can't tell whether the CGs are right or wrong on the latest Sub...even after a year and a half as a member here. But...what was once a place to go to chill and learn has now become something completely different. I'm really not sure what's changed I haven't been able to put my finger on it, but it started long before the cartel thread. What's made this place special for me has been the people here...far too many to name but seeing there posts and reading and learning from them has what's kept it fun for me. Hell when I first stumbled here I was in search of not the perfect sub...but a Navi...one of the last reps I finally got ironically. I never heard of Panerai, I now own 7, Vacheron Constantin...what???, I love my Overseas...and I really dig the AR some guys have recently put on that watch. I've spoken to and in a way met people from all over the world...really cool if you ask me. But lately its not fun anymore...sure I love the new reps...love my BCE my new Pam 199...they came at a much higher price than what the dealer was selling them for. I feel the innocence is over for me here..I couldn't even direct the newest newb with certainty where to go for that perfect sub...as the dealer selling it may not be honest after all. And the hardest thing to come to grip with is one of the four in question Ive used repeatidly without incident...but to know they've screwed with some here...well let's just say it's now sort of tainted. So...for now I'm done... not with watches...I still love those...I'm done here for now... Maybe I wear my heart on my sleeve too much...at least that's what my wife tells me...I'll check back and hopefully when the smoke clears the things I've enjoyed here will rise above...The Zigmeister's wonderful movement reviews and teardowns...Bytor's excellent reviews...Pug's humor and wit....and of course Randy's two beautiful Daytona's sitting majestically a top marble Peace and thanks What happened to our innocence --- Did it go out of style? Along with our nivette No longer a child Different eyes see different things Different hearts Beat on different strings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Gee, you guys crack me up..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Thanks Steve. Good post... and good Rush lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Thanks Steve. Good post... and good Rush lyrics. @BT I'll be listening to Rush live on July 21st... Snakes & Arrows Tour... Looking forward to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shultzie Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Over the 48 hour period that "the thread" was erupting in emotional outbursts, outrage, and angry rhetoric (deserved or otherwise)... the forum was still humming along with other postings - questions, advice, technical discussion, friendly banter, collection photos, member trades, brand discussion - both rep and gen, off-topic postings about life, the universe and everything. maybe some things have changed. I can't say - I spent my first couple of years in the sleepy confines of TRC. When I finally did join here my knowledge about reps, movements, and watches in general grew by volumes as did my desire to learn more. A lot of decent and learned people here and as long as thats the case we'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 @BT I'll be listening to Rush live on July 21st... Snakes & Arrows Tour... Looking forward to it... Cool!!! So am I. 29th of October... same tour. Best concert I ever saw... during my NY trip. (Actually it was Roll The Bones tour but same venue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Cool!!! So am I. 29th of October... same tour. Best concert I ever saw... during my NY trip. (Actually it was Roll The Bones tour but same venue). Well if you'd like to see them in Vancouver... You have a place to stay... And a tour guide of the Pacific North West... A wee bit different than Hoplaks... TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promotersf Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 I have to agree with alot of the comments. When I first found RWG 1, I spent several hours online throughout the course of a day soaking it all in...it was an exciting time. I've always loved watches and own several boring gen rolexes and cartiers, but what was exciting was...the FUN. I enjoyed learning about all the brands, grabbing my first Panerai which has grown to 9...to my rep collection which is now @ 40+. Reading the reviews on the models, movements, the mods(The Zigmeister, you still AMAZE me, 6 more coming your way this week). I've had many solid transactions with members, and OUTSTANDING dealings with Eddie Lee who's steered me clear of so many watches that I wanted just because I was excited. When RWG shut down, I tried TRC but found the pace too slow...RWG II was and is my home base. I've seen better improved watches continue to come out...but my fire has also diminished. I'm now working on finalizing mods on the watches I want, but the FUN is gone. I can't stand the newbie crybabies bitching about this and that, why didn't they make this model or use that crown or why hasn't my shipment shown up. I looked as this "hobby" of ours was just like the other hobbies I enjoy...collecting cigars, single malts, fine tequila and wine...these are hobbies i've loved for 2 decades and i'm sure i will continue to love. We have an amazing community of amazing people...people who genuinely love the joy of collecting, appreciating the movements, the drive to improve watches...and that's what keeps me here. I'm evaluating my purchases lately...there was a time when I needed every new watch out, always Swiss 7750 if it was offered, but i recently just ordered the B. Evolution in the asian 7750 movement...because i'm starting to recognize that these are reps. I don't have a longing to purchase more gens now although last year, I was going to pick up a gen 111h and a 196. The truth is, this is still a fun hobby, I'll always love watches...maybe not as fun as before but fun enough to keep me coming daily. To have me excited about Chieftang's new AR programs. Excited enough to still irritate the girlfriend who doesn't understand why I'm even on here...I've gone back to RWG I, but it feels like going back to college when you're in your 30s...fun, I remember I had those same silly questions when I was just starting, but don't want to stay... I'm still here and I hope our solid core of members stay here because...we're what makes RWG what it is. It's not the watches because we can get them elsewhere and the internet is getting easier for anyone to have resources and access to what we did not have 2-3 years ago. RWG is what we make out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 A few weeks back I started a thread entitiled 'Deja Vu all over again', and after a few days I had the mods get rid of it, because I felt like I was contributing to the bs here, that eventually destroyed the original RWG. In reading this post tonight I could not help but notice some of the names of VIP's and others reading this thread. Now again, I am getting that same feeling. We need to step back and rethink the direction this forum is taking. What happened to out love for watches? Nothing...it is still there, but many seem determined to let the bs overwelm our pursuit of our 'hobby'. I hope that we can persevere. [censored] a bunch of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baltic Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 I've said it before: It's because you have all the watches you ever wanted. I'm pretty much in the same position myself. My sentiments exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Could not agree more. Very good post...although it'll probably not garner 25+ pages and 1,000s of views, it should. Timm 63 posts and 1002 views so far in a day isn't bad. Mind you if we deduct all those posts that concerned themselves with "it won't get many views" then that'll take it down to maybe 23! Interesting points Bill. I sort the wheat out from the chaff and still get a lot of fun here. Try it. JTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Bill- Very constructive thread. It is good to remind people why we are here. I tend to agree on the comments as to cyclicality and the ups and down of the forum and content. I also find the changes in the rep industry which are akin to any mom and pop industry expanding dramatically sometimes disheartening but still very interesting. However, at the end of the day there are 3-4 things which are still true for me: 1. I have made 3-4 friends who I consider to be dear friends, speak to on an almost daily basis and I know that my life would be the lesser without them 2. Although I buy less, I spend more time and money on modding the reps I really love 3. The rep industry has grown dramatically and we are seeing things we would have never seen as recently as 6 months ago. So, I choose to ignore the noise, spend a good amount of time with my friends, read the posts that interest me and buy alot more carefully. I do have to read that Cartel loop. Don't know how I missed it but I may be the better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Very good comments all around. I too have been feeling the change and the need for a break from the forum. I decided a few weeks ago to close shop for two weeks in April. Maybe I'll get some of my own stuff taken care of I am also going to take a break from the forum during that time and do up some of the stuff I always like to do, various posts about movements and technical stuff. Only those who have been here for longer than a year or so (I am including the old RWG1) can appreciate the changes and amazing reps we now have access to. The movement "misrepresentation" issue is not a new one, "Lemania 1874", "Valjoux 7750 copy", "Unitas 6497", etc are all wrong and don't accuratly describe the actual movements (Lemania is a Seagull copy of a Venus 175, Valjoux is ETA, and Unitas went out of business in 1960 something, and is also ETA). I personally have not had any complaints or problems with the dealers I have bought from, and one dealer went well above and beyond what is expected and sourced stuff for me that was unavailable anywhere else, shipped it to me at his cost, and refused to even accept more than a "Thank you" from me... How can I find fault in someone that is willing to go that extra mile at his time and expense. I hope we can get excited again about our watches, and our hobby, and share our excitment when we get something new in the collection... I know I still get excited when I open a watch for service, eventhough I may have just spent the last 6 hours servicing the exact same watch and movement, each time I open the case, my pulse rises...as long at that thrill is there, I'll keep doing what I love to do... As for the posts that I have no interest in, or the members that get under my skin, I skip the posts that are BS, and my Ignored User list has dozens of names on it. By doing those two things, I keep to the stuff I like when I am here, and ignore those that I have no interest in hearing. Just like in life, I choose what I look at, and who I listen to... RG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Still love watches, facinated with time and mechanical timepieces but I am suffering from a little acquisitional burn out. I was pretty driven for a while to buy up everyting I saw but for now I'm sated. I've sold all of my reps save for the obligitory sub and a beautiful gold FA jones my wife loves and aquired some delicious gens from Omega, Hamilton and Maurice Lacroix. I'm full right now... but maybe just a little dessert!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsea Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 I'm also not enjoying the hobby same as before. but maybe a different point of view. I'm not enjoying replicas any more. don't get me wrong, I own 7 very very nice replicas and I love them. and I have got 4 to get more on my list. and I don't think I'll get another replica. my lack of enthusiasm depends not only "replica" thing. for ex. I don't see the point of giving a premium for a titanium 118 when I have a 111 in my collection. same watches, same functions and nearly same look with 111. $350 for replica. or $4000 for geunine. for me, there is other things to do or other kinds watches to buy with this money. I want to get focused on other kinds of watches. in replicas. it is all same. there are a few movements on replicas... eta, unitas or 7750. maybe lemania. anything more? and different watches with same movements. that doesn't make me excited any more. this thing started when I touched, weared and inspected a geunine IWC Big Pilot... so after getting that 4 other replica watches in my list. replica line will be history for me. I won't add anything more. I'll focus on geunine brands that I can afford, and vintage pocket watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted March 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Nice little group hug going on here, however, there are times when someone must address the cancers that eat away at the very reasons our boards exist. Left unchecked can grow and eventually turn our community inside out. During these calling out times, yes it gets ugly, but that's life,... and makes the smooth times all the better by contrast... We can't simply bury our heads in the sand, and bask in the relationships that we may have personally built up with certain dealers, while new members get the shaft. Imo.... You amaze me Richard, I just love that care and concern you evince for your fellow man. You have evidently read thru a list of commentaries proffered by the kind of people who have made this list worth visiting, yet you have the temerity to label it a "group hug," and explain why you feel it necessary to go right on with the same tired trash. OK, you want the solution - I'll give it to you. It's simple, and it has been right here all along, but I know it isn't what people like you want, which is why I am so damn fed up with this. What do YOU have to complain about Richard? I really don't need, or want, to hear your take - or anyone else's - on what a lowlife this dealer is, or that dealer was, unless they screwed YOU. We have a dealer review section. Anyone who has a claim can explain their side, they have the soap box, and we read what is written there. When a person states a legitimate [censored], they get support, and when the members support somoeone's grievance, it generall gets appropriately resolved. But, as many of those paying attention have observed, a review of that section suggests that the dealers you are whining about are about as popular as they have always been. Righting wrongs is not what you really want is it Richard? You want to be a player, you want to be a wheel, you try to organize this and that, with no particular success that I can see, because the truth is, nobody like me is ever going to buy into one of your group leverage schemes - I'm a grown man, I understand how things work, and I begrudge nobody who supplies value and service a profit. Joshua and Andrew did not create their reputations overnight. They became a dominant force on these boards because they EARNED it, and they EARNED it by delivering a quality product at a reasonable price, and going the last mile to help their customers, day after day, month after month, for a long time before you got here. I am proud to see that I am not the only one determined to see that we remember that. Now, I find myself conflicted when I see a well meaning people complaining about "cartels," because they are not fully aware of all that has gone on. Once upon a time, popular dealers we all treated as our friends sold fantastic quality reps here at reasonable prices, competing with one another while remaining friends with each other, and with us. As with most things "gentlemanly," there were unwritten rules. Then came the greedy little trolls who saw a good thing, and in their youth and ignorance thought they could make it a great thing by hustling one friend against the other, and leveraging the best possible price, wringing the last possible drop of profit from our golden geese. I told you then, and I remind you now, what an asinine thing your effort at price control was, but your position was basically, "business is business." How's that workin for ya Richard? The geese got tired of it. Those same dealers got together and said enough is enough - just as any person in business would do, they protected their profit margins. We are here playing, this is a hobby for us, but those guys are in business trying to live and provide for their families. Guess what kid, you were so right, "business is business," and when ignorant children try to play hard ball with adults they get the bat shoved up their ass. Now, in my view, what we have here is an effort to trash the icons of this industry, people who have been good to us, and fair with us for a very long time. From their perspective, once greedy little people came along and offered US an opportunity, WE TURNED ON THEM. I didn't go for it, most of us didn't, but what I did not do, and the rest of us did not do, was demand compliance with unwritten rules, come to their defense loudly enough, and [censored] slap greedy foolish children into silence. I am sorry to say that their most recent behavior has not been entirely above board, but I'm not going to sit here quietly and allow self-serving mutts to blow this out of proportion, and put this chicken before the egg, either. You want to say they misrepresented a watch or two - OK, fine. You want to say they outright lied a time or two, I don't know that I can defend that either, but this didn't happen in a vacuum Richard. There is another side to that same coin - and I mention this because I don't want people to think I am pointing an accusing finger at Pugwash. I am not. He did what he did because we (and by that I point an accusing finger at myself and so many of us) became so defensive of our pet dealers that they could screw a noob (or most anyone else) with impunity - Pugwash spoke up because WE allowed this to reach the point that those who should have dared not. This isn't my board, I don't define the rules for this forum, but we do get to vote and express ourselves. I say, it's time for the Admin to shut this crap down and require that the members of this forum follow the WRITTEN rules, with certain new provisos. 1. If YOU have a complaint, voice it, you owe it to yourself and the rest of us. Tell us what YOUR dealer did to YOU regarding YOUR watch. Tell it politely as you would present it to the court of peer opinion, and give us an opportunity to fix it. 2. Everyone should read every complaint and judge it on its merits - no matter who the dealer is. If their complaint bespeaks a lack of understanding about reps, a polite explanation will suffice. Abusive, demeaning responses should be dealt with as a serious matter. 3. If a complaint appears to have merit, the forum should REQUIRE a reply. If required, the refusal to respond should mean no dealer privileges. 4. If the complaint OBVIOUSLY has SERIOUS merit, but the dealer chooses to remain an ass in the face of group opinion, the forum administrator should deal with it, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, neither the forum, nor the administrator should be expected to resolve all issues - it is not always going to be clear who is right, but let's not miss the forest for the trees. Some wrongs may not be righted if the facts are not clear, but keep in mind cumulative effect . . . a battery of unclear "he said, she said," complaints,m creates enough smoke to tell us where the fires are. 5. If YOU do not have a complaint, STFU. That's my .02, humbly submitted for whatever it is worth. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 You amaze me Richard, I just love that care and concern you evince for your fellow man. You have evidently read thru a list of commentaries proffered by the kind of people who have made this list worth visiting, yet you have the temerity to label it a "group hug," and explain why you feel it necessary to go right on with the same tired trash. OK, you want the solution - I'll give it to you. It's simple, and it has been right here all along, but I know it isn't what people like you want, which is why I am so damn fed up with this. What do YOU have to complain about Richard? I really don't need, or want, to hear your take - or anyone else's - on what a lowlife this dealer is, or that dealer was, unless they screwed YOU. We have a dealer review section. Anyone who has a claim can explain their side, they have the soap box, and we read what is written there. When a person states a legitimate [censored], they get support, and when the members support somoeone's grievance, it generall gets appropriately resolved. But, as many of those paying attention have observed, a review of that section suggests that the dealers you are whining about are about as popular as they have always been. Righting wrongs is not what you really want is it Richard? You want to be a player, you want to be a wheel, you try to organize this and that, with no particular success that I can see, because the truth is, nobody like me is ever going to buy into one of your group leverage schemes - I'm a grown man, I understand how things work, and I begrudge nobody who supplies value and service a profit. Joshua and Andrew did not create their reputations overnight. They became a dominant force on these boards because they EARNED it, and they EARNED it by delivering a quality product at a reasonable price, and going the last mile to help their customers, day after day, month after month, for a long time before you got here. I am proud to see that I am not the only one determined to see that we remember that. Now, I find myself conflicted when I see a well meaning people complaining about "cartels," because they are not fully aware of all that has gone on. Once upon a time, popular dealers we all treated as our friends sold fantastic quality reps here at reasonable prices, competing with one another while remaining friends with each other, and with us. As with most things "gentlemanly," there were unwritten rules. Then came the greedy little trolls who saw a good thing, and in their youth and ignorance thought they could make it a great thing by hustling one friend against the other, and leveraging the best possible price, wringing the last possible drop of profit from our golden geese. I told you then, and I remind you now, what an asinine thing your effort at price control was, but your position was basically, "business is business." How's that workin for ya Richard? The geese got tired of it. Those same dealers got together and said enough is enough - just as any person in business would do, they protected their profit margins. We are here playing, this is a hobby for us, but those guys are in business trying to live and provide for their families. Guess what kid, you were so right, "business is business," and when ignorant children try to play hard ball with adults they get the bat shoved up their ass. Now, in my view, what we have here is an effort to trash the icons of this industry, people who have been good to us, and fair with us for a very long time. From their perspective, once greedy little people came along and offered US an opportunity, WE TURNED ON THEM. I didn't go for it, most of us didn't, but what I did not do, and the rest of us did not do, was demand compliance with unwritten rules, come to their defense loudly enough, and [censored] slap greedy foolish children into silence. I am sorry to say that their most recent behavior has not been entirely above board, but I'm not going to sit here quietly and allow self-serving mutts to blow this out of proportion, and put this chicken before the egg, either. You want to say they misrepresented a watch or two - OK, fine. You want to say they outright lied a time or two, I don't know that I can defend that either, but this didn't happen in a vacuum Richard. There is another side to that same coin - and I mention this because I don't want people to think I am pointing an accusing finger at Pugwash. I am not. He did what he did because we (and by that I point an accusing finger at myself and so many of us) became so defensive of our pet dealers that they could screw a noob (or most anyone else) with impunity - Pugwash spoke up because WE allowed this to reach the point that those who should have dared not. This isn't my board, I don't define the rules for this forum, but we do get to vote and express ourselves. I say, it's time for the Admin to shut this crap down and require that the members of this forum follow the WRITTEN rules, with certain new provisos. 1. If YOU have a complaint, voice it, you owe it to yourself and the rest of us. Tell us what YOUR dealer did to YOU regarding YOUR watch. Tell it politely as you would present it to the court of peer opinion, and give us an opportunity to fix it. 2. Everyone should read every complaint and judge it on its merits - no matter who the dealer is. If their complaint bespeaks a lack of understanding about reps, a polite explanation will suffice. Abusive, demeaning responses should be dealt with as a serious matter. 3. If a complaint appears to have merit, the forum should REQUIRE a reply. If required, the refusal to respond should mean no dealer privileges. 4. If the complaint OBVIOUSLY has SERIOUS merit, but the dealer chooses to remain an ass in the face of group opinion, the forum administrator should deal with it, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, neither the forum, nor the administrator should be expected to resolve all issues - it is not always going to be clear who is right, but let's not miss the forest for the trees. Some wrongs may not be righted if the facts are not clear, but keep in mind cumulative effect . . . a battery of unclear "he said, she said," complaints,m creates enough smoke to tell us where the fires are. 5. If YOU do not have a complaint, STFU. That's my .02, humbly submitted for whatever it is worth. Bill Here we have in a post supposedly against negativity,.. the most toxic ugly spew I have seen in years... Posted by the Author of the thread no less.... Simply Amazing,.. The web is such an entertaining place,.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 There are issues to deal with...correct. Move the post to Dealer section, etc. Ebb and flow...correct. 26 pages of rhetoric...15,000 hits!!!!!!!!!!! The major contibutor to the thread is a guy that joined the Forum in Feburary of 2007. Last month. Are we ebbing or flowing? Moot point. It is a bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted March 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Here we have in a post supposedly against negativity,.. the most toxic ugly spew I have seen in years... Posted by the Author of the thread no less.... Perhaps. If so, I dread the unmerciful asswhipping I shall endure at the hands of your supporters. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Can't we all just get along???? Like I said before, I am relatively new around here and do not have the history of many of the old-timers. But regarding all the hell raising, it all seems to boil down to certain dealers that embellish their listings. To me it is not unreasonable to expect someone selling something to honestly describe the product they are trying to sell. If every purchase is a roll of the dice where you never know what you'll end up with.... well I am a watch collector not a game show contestant playing "Let's Make A Deal" where I have to wonder if I'll get the Ferrari or the goat. All the cartel stuff is pretty much nonsense as is the price fixing and so forth. One would hope that the dealers would be transparent in their business process but there is no requirement that they do so and in a sense it makes sense for them not to be open with things that help them economize The point of my message (not trying to drag that conversation into this one) is that it would be good if the Admins took the lead and quickly develop a consensus amongst the forum community. Then the conversation ought to be cut off. Right now the issues are just flopping around getting beaten to death and it is driving everyone crazy. Any forum like this should be a place where all opinions and views should be welcome and freely discussed. But a degree of leadership is also required when things turn negative. There will be some that complain that they were not afforded an opportunity to fully beat the subject to death, but as in all things you will not be able to please 100% of the people 100% of the time. /Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Perhaps. If so, I dread the unmerciful asswhipping I shall endure at the hands of your supporters. Bill ... oh, no worries there,. who would dare come against the 'Grown Man' who's power & knowledge of the way things work, give him the strength & wisdom to resist the group buy... Hey why not write an e-book... I'll organize a group buy for it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Perhaps. If so, I dread the unmerciful asswhipping I shall endure at the hands of your supporters. Bill Pics please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Pics please! @J says: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted March 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 @J says: Good thing that child isn't an RT supporter; now that would be frightening! I bet Pug could add some convincing fangs and make a poster fit to print! What a GREAT pic! Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now