What's so "Super" about "Super Reps"?

[crystalcranium]

The prices certainly seem to be crawling up to premium levels. I guess the "custom" aspect might have something to do with the nomenclature as in "We ask for it...it appears"...and certainly the quality of the reproduction state of the art has made some advances but...come on..."Super Reps"????? Over the last 6 months, some new models have appeared with high price tags,..but the litnay of complaints seems to be the same....stuff falling off, screws falling out,..same ol 7750 stories, jerky second hands, DOA movements.....etc.....

If anything, and I have no numbers to back this up, just a sense of feedback from the board, it seems reliability has taken a dip ....while everyone is celebrating the fact that the Hublot CEO got [censored] off with how good the HBB looks.

The replica equation makes no sense to me for purchases approaching $300. $500 is much better spent for a genuine with a traceable place of origin, a warranty, and a quality control department. I have no problem with how anybody else wants to spend their hard earned cash but I'm not ready to sign off on calling this latest round of reproductions "Super" in any way.

[b16a2]

Im not so sure. I can see your point that these reps are expensive but this is my view;

My first rep was a Navitimer that cost $328. Compared to the new reps available it is no where near the same high quality. The new IWC is only $70 more expensive than the Navitimer was, but is a massive step in terms of accuracy. Ok QC may not have improved substantially, but the movement is better (as said by The Zigmeister with a service there is no reason why it won't last like an ETA), and the quality of finish is leaps and bounds ahead of what we had available just a year ago.

I cant remember but I am pretty sure the ETA movement watches have always sat around $220 mark, and the new Ultimate PO is only another $10 more, and can be found for less from some dealers.

Overall the prices may have risen, but I believe that what we get for our money is worth it. There are exceptions though, I think that some of the AP ROO's are ridiculously priced!

[montydog]

Im not so sure. I can see your point that these reps are expensive but this is my view;

My first rep was a Navitimer that cost $328. Compared to the new reps available it is no where near the same high quality. The new IWC is only $70 more expensive than the Navitimer was, but is a massive step in terms of accuracy. Ok QC may not have improved substantially, but the movement is better (as said by The Zigmeister with a service there is no reason why it won't last like an ETA), and the quality of finish is leaps and bounds ahead of what we had available just a year ago.

I cant remember but I am pretty sure the ETA movement watches have always sat around $220 mark, and the new Ultimate PO is only another $10 more, and can be found for less from some dealers.

Overall the prices may have risen, but I believe that what we get for our money is worth it. There are exceptions though, I think that some of the AP ROO's are ridiculously priced!

I agree with b16a2. The quality of the HBB (my only "super rep" so far)is outstanding. It really is within a nat's whisker of the gen and I'm happy that the movement will be fine with servicing. I think we should be looking at the positive. These reps are available and we have the option wether to buy them or not. Better that way than no progress within the industry.

[crystalcranium]

My first rep was a Navitimer that cost $328. Compared to the new reps available it is no where near the same high quality. The new IWC is only $70 more expensive than the Navitimer was, but is a massive step in terms of accuracy. Ok QC may not have improved substantially, but the movement is better (as said by Ziggy with a service there is no reason why it won't last like an ETA), and the quality of finish is leaps and bounds ahead of what we had available just a year ago.

But the IWC is $400 + needing service at $275. For that I can smell a used, genuine Omega.

I hear what you are saying too. I think we are being expected to pay premiums for watches that don't really cost the suppliers that much more, if any more, to produce than the high end reps we saw come out a year ago. I got a fabulous IWC GST Chrono for $199....why should the Cousteau Diver be twice as much?????

[crystalcranium]

I agree with b16a2. The quality of the HBB (my only "super rep" so far)is outstanding. It really is within a nat's whisker of the gen and I'm happy that the movement will be fine with servicing. I think we should be looking at the positive. These reps are available and we have the option wether to buy them or not. Better that way than no progress within the industry.

They have been making reps within a nats whisker for about 18 months now. Only in the last several months have we seen this huge price increase. It has nothing to do with a process that's new to the industry,....like the Chinese replica parts producers just got new CNC mils to carve out more accurately the newest batch of 1-1 pieces. Starting a new model from the ground up requires tha same ol, same ol. I recall when the VC Overseas was the new "IT" watch because the manufacturer actually purchased a genuine to copy. Still, that watch never topped out above $275 and it could be found in the low $200.

I guess my point is that replicas of really neat limited edition genuines shouldn't cost twice as much as the standard high end replica of 9 months ago. It's the "God have you seen the new.....gotta have it" factor they are counting on, (like all good businessmen) that's driving the premium price. Our "Irrational Exuberance" is mostly to blame.

[b16a2]

That's a fair point, the GST is possibly the most accurate of the 'pre-super rep generation' and that was avaialbe for a very reasonable price!

If it's not cost push, it's definitley demand pull! People are prepared to pay the price, so the price increases. The IWC may have been cheaper as it wasn't a well know brand on the whole, and it didn't have the hype that these new watches are receiving. I believe that if they had released that now, it would be sold for around $300, because they know damn well that people will buy it at that price.

[By-Tor]

How isn't a watch like UPO not a "super rep"? It's just as accurate as anything else... for less than $200. I think those $1K reps that Joshua sells now are completely insane... Swiss movement or not. I will never again pay more than $300 for a rep... I wasted a fortune on a MBW 1680 (in the rep scale) and even with all those mods it wasn't as accurate as my $99 Noobmariner. Breitling SuperOcean and Evo are awesome... and I can almost understand the 300+ price tag on those.

But there are lots of excellent reps for little money. $500 and $600... no way. I never jumped on the Hublot bandwagon, although I like the watch.

[Pugwash]

I think SuperRep means 1:1 case and the same AR as the gen.

The UPO was, I believe, the first of these, but it may have been the Link Chrono.

I'm trying to work out what I've bought recently that's not gen, SuperRep or MBW ... and I can't think of anything.

[deltatahoe]

@cc, have you ever held/worn/seen one of the so called super reps? i'm just curious.

imho, there is no comparison between the feel of the breitling navitimer rep (sold for $268 plus shipping by most our dealers) and the breitling chronomat evolution super-rep (i got mine for $288 shipped pre-order price from angus).

deltatahoe

[Corgi]

Omega Seamaster Professional Chronometer. Got it from Joshua on a discount for just 208$. It keeps perfect time and is perfect in appearance. I never got it serviced, either! High prices? Maybe for the new clocks... but be patient, when they get out of style, you'll pick them up just like I did my Omega. And she's a beaut!!

[crystalcranium]

@cc, have you ever held/worn/seen one of the so called super reps? i'm just curious.

imho, there is no comparison between the feel of the breitling navitimer rep (sold for $268 plus shipping by most our dealers) and the breitling chronomat evolution super-rep (i got mine for $288 shipped pre-order price from angus).

deltatahoe

To be honest, no I have not. Are you suggesting there is a superior "feel" to these super reps like others speak of the genuine feel of an MBW, ie. the heft, quality and silkiness that is attributed to higher quality materials???

Is your CE made from higher quality materials than your Nav? Or is it just heavier?

[who]

@corgi... you made a great example with the Smp Chrono. If we put the price tag on the side....who can say smp chrono is NOT super rep? or what about the TAG Link chrono.....a super rep too, right? You can say they are old model but in terms of accuracy level they are as good as those new IWC, HBB. I just don't understand why the new super rep model is $200 more than their "predecessor"

btw...I have the smp chrono and feel very happy with this (old) super rep.

[crystalcranium]

@corgi... you made a great example with the Smp Chrono. If we put the price tag on the side....who can say smp chrono is NOT super rep? or what about the TAG Link chrono.....a super rep too, right? You can say they are old model but in terms of accuracy level they are as good as those new IWC, HBB. I just don't understand why the new super rep model is $200 more than their "predecessor"

btw...I have the smp chrono and feel very happy with this (old) super rep.

Exactly. If "Super Rep" is defined as fidelity of reproduction, we've been getting those for a while and far cheaper. Now if someone can tell me that there is something intrinsic about materials or process that's different about these new pieces, I might find some room in my wallet for them but from the feedback about QC....it sounds like little intrinsic has changed.

[deltatahoe]

well it is definitely heavier, but the things that really sets the watch off in my mind is quality of the dial, which combined with the high quality AR, makes this watch feel genuine. maybe it is just the difference in the model, but the navitimer just feels 'flat' by comparison.

one other difference is the feel of the bracelet -- the navitimer bracelet isn't as well built as the chronomat evolution bracelet (for me this isn't a big issue though -- i wear both on straps).

deltatahoe

[Pugwash]

Exactly. If "Super Rep" is defined as fidelity of reproduction, we've been getting those for a while and far cheaper. Now if someone can tell me that there is something intrinsic about materials or process that's different about these new pieces, I might find some room in my wallet for them but from the feedback about QC....it sounds like little intrinsic has changed.

If you have a few dollars and fancy doing a test, I recommend that you get a Steelfish or Ferrari chrono. Not cheap, but you can flip them for very little loss if you don't like them.

Once you've tried one, you'll understand. There's a different feel to them. I first felt it on the UPO, then on the Steelfish and the quality of replication is making those two a heavy part of my regular rotation.

Caveat: I've never seen/held the Ferrari reps, so I'm just going on reports.

[crystalcranium]

well it is definitely heavier, but the things that really sets the watch off in my mind is quality of the dial, which combined with the high quality AR, makes this watch feel genuine. maybe it is just the difference in the model, but the navitimer just feels 'flat' by comparison.

one other difference is the feel of the bracelet -- the navitimer bracelet isn't as well built as the chronomat evolution bracelet (for me this isn't a big issue though -- i wear both on straps).

deltatahoe

My guess is your replica CE would "feel" more substantial than a genuine Submariner on an Oyster bracelet. It's apples and oranges.

Anyway,...one thing I have learned about myself and hobbies is that I'm always changing. Who knows, 3 months from now I might be singing the virtues of these teriffic watches....like I was 6 months ago...or maybe I'll keep evolving.....modification obsession next....yeah that sounds good....I'll be one of those guys...

[deltatahoe]

My guess is your replica CE would "feel" more substantial than a genuine Submariner on an Oyster bracelet. It's apples and oranges.

well of course it would 'feel' more substantial....it's quite a bit heavier than a than a genuine submariner....you keep referring to weight....

i'm talking about how 'genuine' the so called super replica feels compared to another replica watch....your question was "what's so super about these super reps".....my answer is that at least in the case of my white dial chronomat evolution, it has a more 'genuine feel' about it than my old navitimer rep.

EDIT: i just saw pugwash's post from above...he put it well -- "there's a different feel to them"

deltatahoe

[Chronus]

Omega Seamaster Professional Chronometer. Got it from Joshua on a discount for just 208$. It keeps perfect time and is perfect in appearance. I never got it serviced, either! High prices? Maybe for the new clocks... but be patient, when they get out of style, you'll pick them up just like I did my Omega. And she's a beaut!!

You should get one of the 1k AP RO Offshores, or the ceramic bezel HBBs, I'm sure you'll love them

[By-Tor]

With UPO and Steelfish part of the good "feel" probably comes from the fact that these watches are really heavy. Also SMP Chrono and most of the 7750-based reps. Navitimer weak spot is the bracelet, which doesn't quite feel the same as the genuine. Putting it on a strap is probably better option.

Some $200 Rolex replicas are actually decent quality as well, but since the watches are light and flimsy (gens and reps) you won't get the same impression. Also... polishing job, waxing... and oiling the bracelets is the single most important mod for these... anyone can do it. It improves the feel dramatically.

[KB]

At the end of the day when I see Asian watches going for $400 I know my days in this hobby are numbered, it is not a question of whether these watches deserve this price tag or not, it's a question of whether I can afford to buy them.

Ater all I like everyone else here can afford to buy a gen (we all drive cars worth more than Rolex's) but I, as I expect most of you, have put my family on the top of my list of priorities.

Ken

[Rxus]

As long as there are people willing to dish out the 400-600 USD expect the prices to go up. It's simple business logic. Demand for a product determines it's price, so for the next batch of "super reps" be prepared (your wallets i mean)

[Richard Tracy]

At the end of the day when I see Asian watches going for $400 I know my days in this hobby are numbered, it is not a question of whether these watches deserve this price tag or not, it's a question of whether I can afford to buy them.

Ater all I like everyone else here can afford to buy a gen (we all drive cars worth more than Rolex's) but I, as I expect most of you, have put my family on the top of my list of priorities.

Ken

Ditto ! Too bad prices can't be held in check...

[Pugwash]

we all drive cars worth more than Rolex's

We have a Daewoo Nexia here in Chez Pugwash ... It's worth about the same as a SuperRep.

[crystalcranium]

I'm waiting for a more indepth explaination of the elusive feel. The power of suggestion, especially one where we suggest to ourselves there was money well spent, can be a powerful placebo. The reason a genuine Submariner feels better than a replica is better steel, better milling and finishing etc....

Is there anything to compare a BCE to besides a genuine BCE. What is the feel of the replica compared to? I'm just suggesting some of the "feel"might be tied to the expense...."Man this feels like a $300 or $400 watch" rather than an actual comparison.

[t]

i think the upgraded 092 Akrtos is a super rep... and yes... it is SUPER