The Last Straw that Broke the Panerai's Back

[Victoria]

Tell me what you see wrong in this PAM 199, just got this moment from Paul/Wo-Mart/Pam111.com?

1-

2- (With Flash)

3- (No Flash)

Explanation:

I only ordered the PAM 199 because Paul was sending me the new crown guard for the fantasy Mini-Fiddy which had arrived broken on 3rd July.

(edit: Original Prob, http://www.rwg.cc/members/My-First-PAM-arr...th-t36629.html)

After endless, sometimes incredibly cynical emails back-and-forth since then, I finally got a casing replacement. Note, he also sent me a new Mont Blanc pen (La Boheme) because the original one was sent USED, RUSTED, and a ridiculous rep copy worth probably U$1 if NEW, let alone used...

Since I was piggybacking on the order, I also ordered an Hublot Big Bang in Gold/Black (the cheap one). That was my way of showing him that though we had a problem, I'm trying to work with him, and give him some of my money, as usual.

So how can a merchant willfully try to lose a customer like this, someone who potentially could be worth thousands of dollars to him, just because he doesn't quality control his items EVEN WHEN BEGGED to do so, after the first problem arose? How?

I am so disappointed, I can't even say. This is beyond the usual retort of "that's the rep biz, Vic".

There comes a time when that is a very lame excuse, if you'll pardon me for being so blunt...

[juyaku]

Tell me what you see wrong in this PAM 199, just got this moment from Paul/Wo-Mart/Pam111.com?

Explanation:

I only ordered the PAM 199 because Paul was sending me the new crown guard for the fantasy Mini-Fiddy which had arrived broken on 3rd July. After endless, sometimes incredibly cynical emails back-and-forth since then, I finally got a casing replacement. Note, he also sent me a new Mont Blanc pen (La Boheme) because the original one was sent USED, RUSTED, and a ridiculous rep copy worth probably U$1 if NEW, let alone used...

Since I was piggybacking on the order, I also ordered an Hublot Big Bang in Gold/Black (the cheap one). That was my way of showing him that though we had a problem, I'm trying to work with him, and give him some of my money, as usual.

So how can a merchant willfully try to lose a customer like this, someone who potentially could be worth thousands of dollars to him, just because he doesn't quality control his items EVEN WHEN BEGGED to do so, after the first problem arose? How?

I am so disappointed, I can't even say. This is beyond the usual retort of "that's the rep biz, Vic".

There comes a time when that is a very lame excuse, if you'll pardon me for being so blunt...

I agree - I bought my first few reps from Paul back in the Abay-eshop days and they were great, and the service was great. From what I've read he's gone downhill fast since then. There are too many great dealers to deal with an iffy one like Paul.

[Victoria]

I agree - I bought my first few reps from Paul back in the Abay-eshop days and they were great, and the service was great. From what I've read he's gone downhill fast since then. There are too many great dealers to deal with an iffy one like Paul.

Yes. The moment we had our first problem (well, first problem I brought to his attention...ALL his reps to me have had some kind of problem) he was no longer as polite, or attentive, by a long shot. It was like I was a burden to him.

Perhaps so. But you can't be in this business, facing the competition of true merchants like Andrew/Joshua, and expect to survive by being so bush league.

Is this similar to the Eddie Lee story??

[deltatahoe]

i'm a little confused vic....i don't know anything about the pam 199.....what exactly is wrong with it? also, you mentioned that you did get a casing replacement for your mini fiddy....so what is the hang-up?

re: eddie lee, i would argue that a comparison to paul is unfounded. EL might not be the most responsive on email or fastest to ship a watch once you make a payment, but he has always made things right in my experience.

one piece of advice -- don't feel like you need to buy more watches to get decent customer service. paul is THE discount dealer; there is a reason his prices are lower than everyone else. as an example, joshua has always had slightly higher prices for his pieces, but is clearly known for his top notch post-sale service.

i've found if you are loyal to a particular reputable dealer (making most if not all of your purchases from that particular dealer), they will provide quality service without requiring you to buy more watches (they realize that you will eventually buy more watches, and when you do, it will likely be from them).

to be honest though, once josh got his automated site up & running, i've actually purchased fewer reps from him. maybe i'm old fashioned, but imho there is something about the dialogue that goes back and forth about buying a watch (not to mention the ability to negotiate price within reason) that i enjoy about buying reps.

at this point (having built my collection to a place where i'm really happy with it), i'm most likely to buy a new watch off of the trading forum (when i see a particularly good value or hard to find piece).

sorry about the rant on my collecting theories. what was your issue again?

deltatahoe

[Victoria]

sorry about the rant on my collecting theories. what was your issue again?

LOL, that's alright, Delta. We all have our pet peeves, and issues with this or that service.

Look, my problem is a question of approach, as well as quality control. A watch arrived in bad repair, I asked in endless emails that it be rectified, and was given the runaround (12x emails asking to restate the problem, TWELVE. I got 'em saved) until finally he sent the replacement.

In that original order, not only did the fantasy mini-Fiddy come with a broken CG/bridge, but my $35 Meisterst

[cornerstone]

Paul drop ships, so there is no QC from him. That you got any post-sales service is perhaps a minor miracle.

With Paul, you drop your dollars and take your chances. If you want a watch in the mail, you'll get one.

If you want post sales service, that comes at a premium. It's an insurance policy if you like, but of course, it's not free. C'est la vie.

[deltatahoe]

ahh the missing bezel marker....i didn't catch it at first glance (admittedly i didn't look too closely)....but perhaps you should be happy that it was missing upon delivery....

imagine your disdain in asking paul to provide a replacement bezel/marker a week after you received the watch, when the marker popped off and poked a passing admirer in the eye while you were walking down the street.

and the oxidized crown guard....certainly not ideal, but not a deal breaker.

the real key here is understanding that paul is a drop-shipper (as are joshua, andrew and several other prominent dealers). he never sees the watches, so unless you're getting extra special treatment (which unfortunately didn't seem to be the case), you aren't going to get much (if any) quality control.

sorry to be the bearer of bad news.....i totally understand the feeling of disappointment in getting a watch that isn't as it should be.....

deltatahoe

[Victoria]

Paul drop ships, so there is no QC from him. That you got any post-sales service is perhaps a minor miracle.

With Paul, you drop your dollars and take your chances. If you want a watch in the mail, you'll get one.

If you want post sales service, that comes at a premium. It's an insurance policy if you like, but of course, it's not free. C'est la vie.

I'm calming down reading all your replies, even the ones which give him a kindlier opinion than I have of him, now. After all, I'm just one person out of possibly thousands of otherwise satisfied people. Maybe it's a fluke...

So thanks, Cornerstone.

The problem is, I LOVE bargains. That's why I went to Paul in the first place. I adore Andrew, and Joshua has been stellar, but at the end of the day my cheap genes kicked in.

Really, I have no else to blame but me. Meh, I suck.

[dluddy]

re: eddie lee, i would argue that a comparison to paul is unfounded. EL might not be the most responsive on email or fastest to ship a watch once you make a payment, but he has always made things right in my experience.

Couldn't agree more. Eddie has earned the respect he gets for a reason. He always comes through

to be honest though, once josh got his automated site up & running, i've actually purchased fewer reps from him. maybe i'm old fashioned, but imho there is something about the dialogue that goes back and forth about buying a watch (not to mention the ability to negotiate price within reason) that i enjoy about buying reps.

I feel the same way. I really haven't bought anything from him since the Perfect Clones site went up.

Before that, he was my go to guy

I recently bough from Paul and had a pleasant transaction. First time I went to him in 3-4 years

[Victoria]

Couldn't agree more. Eddie has earned the respect he gets for a reason. He always comes through

Really? I heard he was almost out-of-the-business, semi-retired, etc.

I feel the same way. I really haven't bought anything from him since the Perfect Clones site went up.

Before that, he was my go to guy

Everyone establishes a personal relationship with this or that dealer, I've noticed. Some prefer Josh, some Andrew, some Ruby, some EL.

I have awesome chemistry with Andrew. For me, he's perfection as a collector. I'm sure there are others who will form a queue to tell me otherwise. It's just the way things are in life.

I recently bough from Paul and had a pleasant transaction. First time I went to him in 3-4 years

You couldn't meet a nicer guy than Paul. Until you get your first bad rep, and then...and then...well, then he's still I'm sure a nice guy. But business is about professionalism.

If my post helps one newbie avoid my problems, it'll have been worth it.

[rek001]

Vic, a sisterly word of advice, let the cheap genes rule when shopping for a rep designer hand bag, OK?

But when it comes to watches, as you already know, even in the best of circumstances, s**t happens, and when it happens it's really good to know that your dealer will come through for you.

With Paul it really isn't worth the aggro and apres purchase teeth gnashing.

[Victoria]

Vic, a sisterly word of advice, let the cheap genes rule when shopping for a rep designer hand bag, OK?

But when it comes to watches, as you already know, even in the best of circumstances, s**t happens, and when it happens it's really good to know that your dealer will come through for you.

With Paul it really isn't worth the aggro and apres purchase teeth gnashing.

Rima, isn't it?

I called you Riva at RWI, by mistake, argh, sorry!

Thanks for your sisterly advice. I wish I could say this is my last purchase from Paul, but I can't. It will most probably be the last for a good long while though. Having other options, even the Member trade areas, really widens one's horizons.

Anyway, thanks for listening to me! I feel like the kid who wanted to cancel his Rolex order last night, and we all secretly laughed, and teased him a bit -- but something inside us realises, hey, we were once "there" too.

[lanikai]

Tell me what you see wrong in this PAM 199, just got this moment from Paul/Wo-Mart/Pam111.com?

1-

2- (With Flash)

3- (No Flash)

Explanation:

I only ordered the PAM 199 because Paul was sending me the new crown guard for the fantasy Mini-Fiddy which had arrived broken on 3rd July.

(edit: Original Prob, http://www.rwg.cc/members/My-First-PAM-arr...th-t36629.html)

After endless, sometimes incredibly cynical emails back-and-forth since then, I finally got a casing replacement. Note, he also sent me a new Mont Blanc pen (La Boheme) because the original one was sent USED, RUSTED, and a ridiculous rep copy worth probably U$1 if NEW, let alone used...

Since I was piggybacking on the order, I also ordered an Hublot Big Bang in Gold/Black (the cheap one). That was my way of showing him that though we had a problem, I'm trying to work with him, and give him some of my money, as usual.

So how can a merchant willfully try to lose a customer like this, someone who potentially could be worth thousands of dollars to him, just because he doesn't quality control his items EVEN WHEN BEGGED to do so, after the first problem arose? How?

I am so disappointed, I can't even say. This is beyond the usual retort of "that's the rep biz, Vic".

There comes a time when that is a very lame excuse, if you'll pardon me for being so blunt...

Check your PM ....

[deltatahoe]

I feel like the kid who wanted to cancel his Rolex order last night, and we all secretly laughed, and teased him a bit -- but something inside us realises, hey, we were once "there" too.

words of wisdom we've all been there

deltatahoe

[Victoria]

Check your PM ....

I know there is one of you out there that read this and said, "And your PMS too". I know who you are! :gun2:

Hehe.

P.S.: Deltatahoe, guess what? The kid never PMed me back! He just sat waiting for responses, so I'm not even sure he knew he had to refresh to get a private message, with more sensitive info. Me, 1 month ago. Good times.

[deltatahoe]

P.S.: Deltatahoe, guess what? The kid never PMed me back! He just sat waiting for responses, so I'm not even sure he knew he had to refresh to get a private message, with more sensitive info. Me, 1 month ago. Good times.

so here's your post in the other thread....

I will also PM you with another detail, which perhaps should not be revealed publicly. It freaks people out if they don't know what to expect. Hang tight.

to be 100% honest, i have no idea what other detail you are referring to....

could you PM me too?

deltatahoe

(aka noob4life)

[Victoria]

to be 100% honest, i have no idea what other detail you are referring to....

could you PM me too?

deltatahoe

(aka noob4life)

I feel like the class dunce telling the smart kids the answers to the quiz!

I fear if I PM you, I'll be deluged with questions asking the same thing. So here goes, in RWG morse code: Matryoshka.

Copy, 10-4, roger and out, Delta?

[deltatahoe]

I feel like the class dunce telling the smart kids the answers to the quiz!

[...] So here goes, in RWG morse code: Matryoshka.

Copy, 10-4, roger and out, Delta?

i think i'm more clueless than before

who's the class dunce now?

[fitmic]

I only ordered twice from Paul.

Perhaps I was lucky, who recieved great watches which are still working.

I've ordered most of my watches from Andrew. You all know the great communication and given shipping info.

When it comes to faulty or broken watches he gives a return address and ships out another one.

BUT, what sickens me, is that you have to pay for registered return postage to him ($25), and his shipping fees to me ($30).

Perhaps that's part of the game, but in return you get customer service and communication.

[Victoria]

I only ordered twice from Paul.

Perhaps I was lucky, who recieved great watches which are still working.

I've ordered most of my watches from Andrew. You all know the great communication and given shipping info.

When it comes to faulty or broken watches he gives a return address and ships out another one.

BUT, what sickens me, is that you have to pay for registered return postage to him ($25), and his shipping fees to me ($30).

Perhaps that's part of the game, but in return you get customer service and communication.

I've been emailing with Andrew all night. Last week, to the day, I received my dad's Omega 2537.80 with an off-centre pearl and the wrong deployant bracelet. One email to Andrew solved it, and by next post, a new one was on the way. We received it Tuesday, yesterday.

He sent me shipping instructions in an email, asking me to send the old one back Airmail. He knows he runs the risk of it never reaching him, due to the vagaries of Chinese post, but he trusts me enough to send me a new one, no questions asked.

Man, considering that Paul hasn't responded YET to my emails to yet ANOTHER problematic watch of his, and I know that he'll play possum for dayyyyyyys, and send me BS emails asking for clarification again and again (I provide him with photographic evidence each time), I'll take that $25 hit with Andrew.

I know you weren't complaining much, Fitmic. It's not that.

But with Andrew, it's as close to an AD service as you're going to get half-way around the world.

And Armin, I emailed Andrew the link to your Dealer Review post. I'm sure he'll respond.

P.S.: I'm up at this ungodly hour on the off-off-chance Paul responds. He tends to respond to problems JUST before he goes home, so that yet another day passes by without an answer. Nice, real nice.

Anyone have a spare noose they can lend me?

[fitmic]

I guess that sometimes language difficulties could be the problem, but they seem quite common when stuff needs to be replaced/refunded.

[V]

It is sad what happened to you but with dropshippers you are gambling and even if you begged him on your knees it wouldn't have changed anything...

So either you decide to go with a dropshipper with a good after-market reputation or buy from people who inspect the watches.

I personally do the first because I have good relationships with many dealers and I know they will do good if a mistake happens.