plaifender Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) So where can noob find the best yacthmaster rolesium rep avaliable, if not from joshua and andrew? use the search feature in the future. Don't waste your first post on something so easily searchable. Having said that.. I will spoon feed you my answer..... try Silix (Jay). He's my collector of choice and I purchased a yachtmaster swiss rolesium from him about 2 months ago. His yachtmaster comes frome the same factory as josh and andrew. http://www.silix-prime.com p.s. you'll also find the silix is always cheaper than andrew and josh... pps. Welcome to the board! Edited August 23, 2007 by plaifender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I don't tend to comment on the "cartel" threads. Josh has, and I'm honest here, has always treated me well and offered outstanding service. I speak only from my own experience. Same for Andrew and I. I'd walk through burning RWG coals for the guy, because not once but many times he's given me the benefit of the doubt, and solved matters in one email. Now, I'm not unmindful of others' concerns, some which sound reasonable, but at least at this moment I am unable to share them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I don't tend to comment on the "cartel" threads. Josh has, and I'm honest here, has always treated me well and offered outstanding service. I speak only from my own experience. I continue to buy from Josh when I like a certain watch because, in my experience, he stands by what he sells. But the buyer and seller relationship is a personal thing. It is a bit like my stylist. I don't care if others like or hate my stylist. So long as my stylist makes me look good, I'm happy. J I agree with you.. but i think the question at hand was a bit more broad that like or hate. What most are talking about, is the well being and protection of all members like us that are subject to the dealers. I have no personal problems with josh or andrew, but if they are monopolizing and fixing prices.. that's a very bad and dangerous thing not just for us, but for the watch industry. I'm not informed enough to say i support or don't support josh and andrew, but i'm definitely not in support of CARTELs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I don't tend to comment on the "cartel" threads. Josh has, and I'm honest here, has always treated me well and offered outstanding service. I speak only from my own experience. I continue to buy from Josh when I like a certain watch because, in my experience, he stands by what he sells. But the buyer and seller relationship is a personal thing. It is a bit like my stylist. I don't care if others like or hate my stylist. So long as my stylist makes me look good, I'm happy. J well said, Yes i do not wish to sway anyone .... if i sounded bias then i stand corrected... it has been my experience as well,Joshua has always been up and up with me and replaced defective watches immediately his service after the fact is outstanding with "me" and the parts he provides me at no charge... well,I am happy ... of course there have been makers i am not happy with .. same maker same problem ... I am sorry for what has happened to some of the dealers and the members.. i hope someday it can be ammended Lanikai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 True. I didn't mean to make it sound like they were manipulating the entire market... I know that's not true. I just was saying that monopolies are never good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Cartel Shmartel Fartel....There is no GD cartel. First of all, Andrew and Josh are best friends for many years who are in the same line of business and share the same contacts. They have a gentlemens agreement to keep their prices the same so as not to compete with angst. As far as the number 88 goes, in Chinese legend, 88 is recognized as the numbers of good business fortune. Nothing clandestine about that. Nothing sinister about that. I truly wish people with their heads up their arses about Andrew and Josh would get them duly unstuck. They are two hardworking guys who are human and made not horrible mistakes. So they lied a bit? Get a grip people and leave them be to do what they have excelled at for the past few years. The have the most extensive inventory of replica watches, and they are reliable and basically honest, honorable fellows. They are an asset to what we do here and should be treated with just a little more respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Now you two stop playing footsie. Hurry up and carve your initials in the tree. Back to the topic at hand. Definitely two people in two different locations. And yes they work together closely along with one or two others. If you can remember way back there was a time a few years ago when Andrew was selling only lower end reps. But he was the first of the two (but after Paul and King) to put up his own website. Joshua followed. Then dealers got a glimpse of the future. That future came from Honpo. They were the first that I am aware of to buy gens and work with the factories to come out with more expensive exclusives. They had the benefit of serving the best rep market on the planet - Japan. Ultimately, they were slowed down when they were busted in a very public bust in Japan and subsequently had to move all their operations off-shore. To this day though, you cannot find the 194 with ti case anywhere but from them. I do hope we will see it eventually. People complain that the new Super Reps are very expensive. Well, if you ever bought from Honpo you know the exclusives were always expensive. First 2893-A2 PAM's were $800 or more. The Asian 7750 187 was $800. And they did these projects with 150 piece minimums in return for limited period exclusives. Fast forward to today and the high end rep industry has exploded. New brands proliferate. Try buying a good Breitling (Chrono ti excepted) or IWC 2-3 years ago. Factories are now bigger and have their own set of demands. Runs are larger. Minimums are higher. Even cost per unit is up. Many smaller dealers including a couple who we all knew and loved here disappear. And thus we see the "buying cooperative" which has morphed into the "designing and sell exclusive cooperative". It is pretty amusing that ultimately the best profitability is in the form of "proprietary" branded product. sorry I only got to read this now.... been kind of tied up the last week...LOL ... great post very well oput fourth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Cartel Shmartel Fartel....There is no GD cartel. First of all, Andrew and Josh are best friends for many years who are in the same line of business and share the same contacts. They have a gentlemens agreement to keep their prices the same so as not to compete with angst. As far as the number 88 goes, in Chinese legend, 88 is recognized as the numbers of good business fortune. Nothing clandestine about that. Nothing sinister about that. I truly wish people with their heads up their arses about Andrew and Josh would get them duly unstuck. They are two hardworking guys who are human and made not horrible mistakes. So they lied a bit? Get a grip people and leave them be to do what they have excelled at for the past few years. The have the most extensive inventory of replica watches, and they are reliable and basically honest, honorable fellows. They are an asset to what we do here and should be treated with just a little more respect. on that note.. i'm out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bll Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 it is : do you wanna fu*k me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Cartel Shmartel Fartel....There is no GD cartel. First of all, Andrew and Josh are best friends for many years who are in the same line of business and share the same contacts. They have a gentlemens agreement to keep their prices the same so as not to compete with angst. As far as the number 88 goes, in Chinese legend, 88 is recognized as the numbers of good business fortune. Nothing clandestine about that. Nothing sinister about that. I truly wish people with their heads up their arses about Andrew and Josh would get them duly unstuck. They are two hardworking guys who are human and made not horrible mistakes. So they lied a bit? Get a grip people and leave them be to do what they have excelled at for the past few years. The have the most extensive inventory of replica watches, and they are reliable and basically honest, honorable fellows. They are an asset to what we do here and should be treated with just a little more respect. On that note.. my Partagas D2 is winding down and so am I .. good post Ham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Small point of order. The goal of a monopoly is to control an entire market. It is rather the definition of monopoly. So if they are not manipulating an entire market then they are, ipso facto, not a monopoly. ./Roberts Rules I tender my yes to that making it a 2/3 and Roberts rules calls for 2/3 majority.... good night all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Traveller Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) Get a grip people and leave them be to do what they have excelled at for the past few years. The have the most extensive inventory of replica watches, and they are reliable and basically honest, honorable fellows. They are an asset to what we do here and should be treated with just a little more respect. I agree, I have had some really nice dealings with Joshua. I am impressed by the extensive selection, the fast service, the professionalism. I am not sure why people are so cantankerous and disrespectufl. People are always talking trash on the internet whatever forum I have seen, I sure hope people keep their views in perspective. If a given store is able to negotiate "exclusives" on some watches that is their perogative, it's no different than Apple selling the iphone only through AT&T to recoup some of the R&D costs. I don't like it as a consumer because I want as much choice as possible but it's business. I don't think they are even close to being able to monopolize the market, there is too many other online stores that are offering good service and can access new watches too. They need to improve the speed of their site too, other sites are much faster and offer better product photos. In other ways they are doing a tremendous job (speed of service and selection) but there is a lot of room for improvement. Edited August 23, 2007 by World Traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_cope Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Honestly people who gives two hoots about a "cartel" of two dealers? I've had nothing but excellent service from Josh, and my current order with Andrew is looking like it will be the same great service. They both offer excellent watches with outstanding service. If they have to form a co-op to make more money, so be it. If you think their prices are too high, or don't like their cooperation, buy elsewhere. Just like I don't buy gas at citgo because I'm not a fan of chavez, you can take your money elsewhere. I'm willing to pay a little more to get what I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I don't tend to comment on the "cartel" threads. Josh has, and I'm honest here, has always treated me well and offered outstanding service. I speak only from my own experience. I continue to buy from Josh when I like a certain watch because, in my experience, he stands by what he sells. But the buyer and seller relationship is a personal thing. It is a bit like my stylist. I don't care if others like or hate my stylist. So long as my stylist makes me look good, I'm happy. J See, this kind of selfish thinking is what allows them to keep doing what they are doing. On the thread about this Edge started, a lot of people commented that while they personally liked them, they could not condone or ignore their business practices. This is not about having an "I'm okay, so eff you guys" attitude, because that does not help everyone in the community, it only helps two people: The one buying the product, and the one selling it. Also, as pointed out before, there is no 'buyer and seller relationship'. These people are simply behaving in a friendly manner to get people to buy more of their product. Seriously, think about it. If these guys were really 'friendly' and wanted to 'be friends', they'd be actively participating in the discussions of the forum, not just posting to inform people of website changes (which could be done via closed e-mail to everyone in their contact list) or to highlight their latest product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) Honestly people who gives two hoots about a "cartel" of two dealers? I've had nothing but excellent service from Josh, and my current order with Andrew is looking like it will be the same great service. They both offer excellent watches with outstanding service. If they have to form a co-op to make more money, so be it. If you think their prices are too high, or don't like their cooperation, buy elsewhere. Just like I don't buy gas at citgo because I'm not a fan of chavez, you can take your money elsewhere. I'm willing to pay a little more to get what I want. The point which has been made (in this very thread) is that there are other dealers who sell the exact same watches for lower prices. Why pay more to someone when you can buy the exact same thing for less? Also, as for 'great service', tell that to the people who paid extra to have their watches 'waterproofed' by Joshua, and the watches they received, when actually put in water, leaked like seives. Sure, that's by no means the majority occurence, but, they are by no means rare enough occurences to ignore and put down to one-off manufacturing flaws, but proof that Joshua holds the opinion that if he feels he can get away with pulling [censored] with someone who doesn't know any better, then he will (and has been proven to do so). Is that the kind of guy you seriously want to do business with and think is worthy of defense? Also, I forgot to say, the 'cartel of two dealers' is actually composed of FOUR dealers. If you'd been paying any attention to the discussions of this issue, then you would know that. Edited August 23, 2007 by TeeJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Cartel Shmartel Fartel....There is no GD cartel. First of all, Andrew and Josh are best friends for many years who are in the same line of business and share the same contacts. They have a gentlemens agreement to keep their prices the same so as not to compete with angst. As far as the number 88 goes, in Chinese legend, 88 is recognized as the numbers of good business fortune. Nothing clandestine about that. Nothing sinister about that. I truly wish people with their heads up their arses about Andrew and Josh would get them duly unstuck. They are two hardworking guys who are human and made not horrible mistakes. So they lied a bit? Get a grip people and leave them be to do what they have excelled at for the past few years. The have the most extensive inventory of replica watches, and they are reliable and basically honest, honorable fellows. They are an asset to what we do here and should be treated with just a little more respect. So they 'lied a bit'??? WTF kind of defense is that? It doesn't matter if they lied a little, or lied a lot. The fact is they LIED, and that makes them LIARS. If they can't be trusted to tell the 100% truth 100% of the time, then they can't be trusted, period. Honest and honoroable people do not lie at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Just to add to the discussion... My father recently purchased the Asian Pam253 w/sapphire crystal from andrew because he liked my silix watch soo much. My father paid the advertised prices of $308. After some kind of hikkup in the order process... Andrew sends my father, saying that he was unable to source the sapphire crystal model, and "in return" was going to send my father then "new and improved updated version". My father was naively pleased, but doesn't know the diference between either watch. When I saw my father's watch for the first time, I noticed that it was exactly like mine. and that the version Andrew sent to my father was in fact the $248 updated dial version with mineral crystal... (which in my opinion is a great watch specifically for its dial)... T The point is.. Andrew substituted my father's watch for a lesser price one and didn't refund my father the difference in price. Seeing the wording in his email to my (unknowledgeable)father is horrible also. Making my father believe that the change was an upgrade, when in fact, price-wise, it was a downgrade model... I've told my father this, but he doesn't seem to care. As for me... if someone robs $60 from me.. i'd be pretty mad.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Just to add to the discussion... My father recently purchased the Asian Pam253 w/sapphire crystal from andrew because he liked my silix watch soo much. My father paid the advertised prices of $308. After some kind of hikkup in the order process... Andrew sends my father, saying that he was unable to source the sapphire crystal model, and "in return" was going to send my father then "new and improved updated version". My father was naively pleased, but doesn't know the diference between either watch. When I saw my father's watch for the first time, I noticed that it was exactly like mine. and that the version Andrew sent to my father was in fact the $248 updated dial version with mineral crystal... (which in my opinion is a great watch specifically for its dial)... T The point is.. Andrew substituted my father's watch for a lesser price one and didn't refund my father the difference in price. Seeing the wording in his email to my (unknowledgeable)father is horrible also. Making my father believe that the change was an upgrade, when in fact, price-wise, it was a downgrade model... I've told my father this, but he doesn't seem to care. As for me... if someone robs $60 from me.. i'd be pretty mad.. wow,... that sounds totally out of context with andrew .. in the time that i have dealt with him.1yr. 3 months... I have never known him to be less than honourable, he is actually a real boy scout when it come to stuf like that ... kind of hard to prove now anyway since anyone can take a picture of any watch Sorry ... but i find it hard to believe given the track record I have with him .. not once was his dealings anything but honest with me.. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabra Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 *sniff sniff* It smells like [censored], well it has proven to be [censored] before ... ah, what the hell, I'm gonna take a bite anyway.. dear god... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_cope Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) The point which has been made (in this very thread) is that there are other dealers who sell the exact same watches for lower prices. Why pay more to someone when you can buy the exact same thing for less? Also, as for 'great service', tell that to the people who paid extra to have their watches 'waterproofed' by Joshua, and the watches they received, when actually put in water, leaked like seives. Sure, that's by no means the majority occurence, but, they are by no means rare enough occurences to ignore and put down to one-off manufacturing flaws, but proof that Joshua holds the opinion that if he feels he can get away with pulling [censored] with someone who doesn't know any better, then he will (and has been proven to do so). Is that the kind of guy you seriously want to do business with and think is worthy of defense? Also, I forgot to say, the 'cartel of two dealers' is actually composed of FOUR dealers. If you'd been paying any attention to the discussions of this issue, then you would know that. See the problem is, Josh has never tried to screw me over, and while I'm sure other people have received products and service they were less than pleased with, I haven't. I'll keep buying from both Josh and Andrew. You apparently have a problem with them, so don't buy from Josh or Andrew. But why bother trying to influence MY money? I'm sure there are dealers with better watches, and I'm sure there are dealers that sell similar models cheaper. But I feel secure buying from Josh and Andrew, I know that if I order something, I'll get it. If I don't get it, I know I can raise enough of a stink to get it fixed. Hell I could be buying from TTK, who is, in my reading of his posts, the biggest asshat I've encountered on an online forum. But I haven't started threads detailing how if you buy from TTK you're supporting asshatery and harming this community. Regardless of who you buy from, the ONLY people who benifit from the transaction are the buyer and the seller. Unless you bought your rep from sash recently, then your seller just dropped off the face of the earth, good luck finding a tracking number. So yeah, by all means, use other dealers, that's capitalism. But there really isn't any ground for you guys to stand on when it comes to arguing Josh and Andrew are hurting the community. Might as well start picketing Starbucks, as they charge too much for sub-par coffee, and are hurting the coffee community. PLUS they don't sell their branded coffee beans to the local coffee house, they have a monopoly! Edited August 23, 2007 by capt_cope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I have just heared Josh&Andrew's dealer sections have been removed from RWI (!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 @capt_cope "Mr. Childmolestor NEVER molested MY Child, so WHY would I not allow him to play with my little girls?? Tell me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitmic Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I have just heared Josh&Andrew's dealer sections have been removed from RWI (!!!) No they haven't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 See the problem is, Josh has never tried to screw me over, and while I'm sure other people have received products and service they were less than pleased with, I haven't. I'll keep buying from both Josh and Andrew. You apparently have a problem with them, so don't buy from Josh or Andrew. But why bother trying to influence MY money? As I pointed out in my above post, the attitude "I'm happy with them so there!" is not one which benefits everyone in the commmunity, which ultimately, is what people should be doing and looking out for each other. It is not so much a case of trying to influence other people's money, but an attempt to open people's eyes to the situation, which, already has two 20+ page threads devoted to it. I'm sure there are dealers with better watches, and I'm sure there are dealers that sell similar models cheaper. But I feel secure buying from Josh and Andrew, I know that if I order something, I'll get it. Please see my above point about people who have paid extra to have watches serviced or waterproofed, but received untouched, base-line factory stock. If I don't get it, I know I can raise enough of a stink to get it fixed. Which, as someone else mentioned, will actually involve little more on their part than sending you replacement watch after replacement watch, until you are either satisfied (and stop emailing) or get sick of the situation and give up (and stop emailing) Given the amount of watches they sell, even going through half a dozen 'replacements' means nothing to their profit margins. Either way, the fact that there was a problem at all, shows that there was some rudimentary flaw with the deal which should never have occured. Hell I could be buying from TTK, who is, in my reading of his posts, the biggest asshat I've encountered on an online forum. But I haven't started threads detailing how if you buy from TTK you're supporting asshatery and harming this community. Regardless of your opinion of TTK, you cannot deny that he actually participates in the forum of this community, which is something Andrew and Joshua never do (other than to promote themselves or their product) One thing's for sure, I admire TTK's honesty. Regardless of who you buy from, the ONLY people who benifit from the transaction are the buyer and the seller. Unless you bought your rep from sash recently, then your seller just dropped off the face of the earth, good luck finding a tracking number. Yes, but the point is, people are thinking they have some kind of 'friendship' with A & J, and some, if they know them on a day to day real world basis, may well. For the people that are simply 'emails and dollars', they are just saying whatever is required to make a sale. That may well be good business, but it is certainly not friendship, and should never be mistaken as thus. Actually, I have only ever purchassed from one forum dealer, and totally regret doing so. Although they have a good reputation with others, I personally would not recommend them, as their 'operational practices' did not meet my expectations. The only reason I purchassed from them (on two occasions) is that they have stock which other dealers do not carry. Not 'rare', hard to find stuff, per se, just 'obscure'. I tollerated their delays because I wanted the watches (one I am still waiting for) that does not mean however, that I would recommend them on the strength of their service. All my other transactions, have been with dealers not spoken of on the forum, and who others actually scoff at for their products. Sure, they might not be Super Reps, but, I get exactly what I ordered, in the specified time, and which is still of good enough quality to pass the scrutiny of non-watch enthusiasts. That's not to say that 'passing the watch off as real' is important to me, it is not. The point I am illustrating, is that the watches are of a good enough quality that only other watch enthusiasts or a brand specific AD would call them out, and the general public would be oblivious. So yeah, by all means, use other dealers, that's capitalism. But there really isn't any ground for you guys to stand on when it comes to arguing Josh and Andrew are hurting the community. Might as well start picketing Starbucks, as they charge too much for sub-par coffee, and are hurting the coffee community. PLUS they don't sell their branded coffee beans to the local coffee house, they have a monopoly! Totally irrelevent strawman. Starbucks might well overcharge (that's the price one pays for 'a brandname') but at least the coffee you receive is the coffee you ordered and paid for. You don't order a hot chocolate with full-fat milk, but get given one with semi-skimmed, or worse, soy milk. Expensive they may be, but they are at least honest in their product, something A&J are not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 No they haven't! What does this mean, then: "Josh and Andrew have decided to remove the RWI logo which directs people who are not members of our replica forums and have chose to only display the repgeek logo. Based on the information that TWP posted a couple months ago and the obvious imbedded connection to repgeek that Josh and Andrew have I guess you can say that this does not supprise me. I find this insulting, Their section will be disabled effective immed. I like to keep members in the know as much as possible, thus... this post.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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