sssurfer Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Are you seriously telling me that NO European country have been independent prior some 200 years ago? I have to say that I found VB's synthesis enlightening. Unfortunately my education is far from history, and to me a summary that kind provides a very useful framework where to insert further probing if one wants. It also has a merit not to make unlearned members like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 This was going to be a shot for what do you carry daily but never go round to taking it back then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I feel sorry for anyone living in a country where they feel camouflage and armaments are required to feel secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 That would be your country that uses me and people like me to feel safe and secure pugwash, they are work tools! I also have them in sandy colours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 That would be your country that uses me and people like me to feel safe and secure pugwash, they are work tools! I also have them in sandy colours! I didn't realise you were actively serving in the military. If you're serving in the military, sure, you need guns. However, I doubt everyone posting pictures of guns here is serving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegis Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Ahh but just because we're not active duty anymore doesn't mean we should just lay down our arms..... oh and no, I don't have any pics on this machine to attach, sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 (edited) That's simple. I don't think so....it's more complex than that....although most Americans are....! It's because of what Europeans are always saying they have, that Americans don't -- tradition based on long cultural history. I don't think that's why Americans have a need or desire for guns.......relevancy issue in this point. - We Europeans come from the feudal tradition when Lords and masters were the only ones allowed to possess firearms, or weaponry, being enjoined not to hunt, fish and shoot in select property at the point of death. Americans do not. History has shown that to be fallacious....whilst landowners in England / Scotland etc ....were obliged to provide men in the event of military threat or action....they were not the only ones 'allowed' to possess firearms or weaponry.....the major determining factor was monetary....firearms are and have always been expensive....especially in times prior to mass production...hence most civilian conscripted 'armies' were armed with whatever was at hand from pitchforks to bodkins.....lords and masters were unable to finance the acquisition of what were seen as sophisticated weaponry for a land army....but....provided you were able to finance the acquisition of a firearm you were 'allowed' to have one......ask the poachers.....similar situations existed throughout Mittel Europe....! In fact ALL subjects of England had a right to bear arms...under the Magna Carta.....additionally under the 1689 bill of Rights ( yes that's right the English had a BoR before America....)....Protestants had a conditional right to own firearms......I don't have the time to type it all...so here's the Wikipedia version......( which is slightly more accurate than the Vickipedia version )..! The Bill of Rights 1689 is largely a statement of certain positive rights that its authors considered that citizens and/or residents of a constitutional monarchy ought to have. It asserts the Subject's right to petition the Monarch and the Subject's right to bear arms for defence. It also sets out (or in the view of its writers, restates) certain constitutional requirements where the actions of the Crown require the consent of the governed as represented in Parliament. In this respect, it differs from other "bills of rights," including the United States Bill of Rights, though many elements of the first eight amendments to the U.S. Constitution echo its contents. This is in part due to the uncodified constitutional traditions of the UK, whereby the English Bill of Rights forms a list of rights in respect of the people as represented in Parliament, in addition to those rights already provided for individuals as set out in Magna Carta. As for being enjoined NOT to hunt, fish and shoot in select ( read 'private' ) property .....I think you will find that situation remains to this day.....let's see your average Yank go shoot on Pres Bush's land or D ick Cheney’s without invite.......or even in your back yard......somebody will take a dim view of it. - We Europeans were prevented from taming our comparatively smaller land, by homesteading it, farming enormous tracts of unclaimed territories because it was given out as prizes for Court favorites, generals, and other worthies. Americans were not. Not exact..Europe is in geographical terms actually Eurasia...the division between Europe and Asia was first postulated by Hellenic geographers who ultimately were unable to define any geophysical characteristic that would separate the land mass....so in essence....there are 3x Europes...continental Europe which excludes the UK and other island areas.....Europe as a defined Hellenistic continent...and the actual land mass which constitutes the geographical continent....same as N.America and S.America are actually one continent..hence the definition 'Conus' which indicates the Northern area of the land mass....but like continental Europe excludes islands such as Hawaii etc ...Eurasia incidentally does not include Africa which is also part of the great land mass...( evidenced by the fact that Lucy did not swim to Europe ).....! America ( N&S )...has a land mass of approx 43 million sq/km......Eurasia ( not incl Africa ) has a land mass of approx 54 million sq/km......America ( N&S ) has a population of approx of 86 million peoples..( or 14% of world population )....Eurasia ( not including Africa ) has a population of approx 4 billion + peoples ( or 72%)...! I think you will find that there has been comparative homesteading featured on both continents - Americans declared their independence YEARS before anyone in Europe, and the rest of the Americas did so. Europeans did not, since those shambolic republics which followed the American Revolution were ludicrous at best (Haiti), and overturned at worst (France). Switzerland being the perennial odd man out, of course, has a tradition of being heavily armed at the private level. Duh....! - Americans had slaves which needed to be controlled. Later, when slavery was abolished, owning a gun became a right of passage, as a way to snub one's nose at the past. Europeans did not. And of course slavery and the controlling of slaves was completely unknown in Europe.....gee I wonder why slavery was abolished in the UK in 1883 and remained in N.America until the 'enlightenment'...30 years later.....and how did they ratify it...why they picked up their guns.....and did what they've always done......they threw the dragon's teeth among the citizenry....! - Americans think an armed citizenry keeps excessive government intrusion out of their private lives. Europeans do not. NO...Americans 'believe' that it does......but go ask those who suffer from eminent domain or unlawful wiretaps.....or any of the other myriad of Gubbamint intrusions that take place......you will NOT find a European subject nor citizen forced to sit on a plane on the tarmac for 10x hours under the threat of being arrested by "Federal" authorities and facing the prospect of 20+ years in jail simply because he's tired/ hot and hungry......and wishes to take his screaming kid off the plane that he's just paid $500 for the 'privilege' of being threatened with jail if he tries to leave and go home... So, to recap, it's a question of tradition based on culture, rule of law, force of isolation, anti-government sentiment, and protection of property and family from marauding attackers (including neighbours). That your typical middle-class person owns a lot of crap worth robbing, much more than any other citizens around the world, I'm sure plays a role. It has a lot to do with tradition......Europeans have a similar history to the US ...one of conflict....constant change...laws and traditions......isolationism.....and yes anti-government sentiments.....spread over many individual countries just as it is over many individual states in the US.....however Europeans don't feel the need to have AR-15 assault weapons nor half a dozen large calibre handguns in the house.....a house incidentally which doesn't come under constant threat from neighbours or otherwise.....despite the fact that like the US there are a large number of Mittel-class Europeans who own a lot of crap worth robbing......and not much more than any other citizen of the world...Thai people value their TV's just as much as Americans.....and in fact more....why?.....insurance is practically null and void here....you can bet that makes a difference to the way they feel about someone trying to take it away from them....but I’ve yet to hear a Thai exclaim....'from my cold dead fingers'....! As my old history tutor used to say: It's really a very easy thing to understand. But you have to WANT to understand. Otherwise, you will never understand. Your old history teacher was right.......anti-gun people WANT to understand why it's necessary to hang onto an antiquated piece of metal that fires a projectile which has only one purpose....to kill......they also WANT to understand why it's necessary to go out and prove how manly you are by slaughtering an innocent creature just so that you can hack it to pieces on the dining room table...when you can walk into Wal-Mart and achieve the same objective........pro gun.....DON"T want to understand why it's unnecessary....and simply exclaim.....'it's my right' under the 2nd Amendment......( notice I use the word "amendment" ).......the Constitution..(which can and should be amended to bring it up to date ).......declares..... "declares "a well regulated militia" as "being necessary to the security of a free State",......given that America has the distinction of being regarded as the 'freest" country in the world and has a standing army dedicated to defend America against all enemies foreign and domestic...why do they feel the need to still 'arm' themselves.....simple.....they use the 2nd Amendment the way a drunk uses a lamppost....for support....not illumination. ___________________ Edited September 7, 2007 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Ahh but just because we're not active duty anymore doesn't mean we should just lay down our arms..... Why not? I know 100% for sure I will never ever need a Gun. No armed invaders will ever try to force their ways into my house. It'll never happen and I'm so unbelievably certain of that it's not even funny. I'll never be mugged at gunpoint either and I know that carrying a knife will get me into more trouble than it could ever get me out of. I like being in a country where the likelihood of being shot is so minuscule that it's close as damnit zero. If I thought we could retain this while having firearms freely available, I'd be all for them being sold in Asda or Tesco. As it is, I like things the way they are. In the US, you need guns because you've got guns. I understand that. All I ask is that you stop thinking you're superior because of it. Having the right to bear arms doesn't make you any better than any other country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Lets not get into all that again and if you do go back to the old thread where it was beaten to death before, this was about a photograph nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 456 years before that bastardised nation decided they preferred coffee to tea.... Tell us how you really feel then mate. Have you seen the one where the python try's to eat the 6ft alligator in the everglades? We even have our own panther, not that anyone ever see's the damn thing. The last one probably got hit by an SUV some time ago. Anywho, I think this thread started with .45's and Pams so, back to it then. We own firearms to protect ourselves from enemys both foreign and domestic. Unlike other countries, we do not expect someone else to do it for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Now with out that last sentance this would have been right back on topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Unlike other countries, we do not expect someone else to do it for us. Yeah, the Iraqis were really embarrassed when they asked you to come in and defend them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Yeah, the Iraqis were really embarrassed when they asked you to come in and defend them..... I don't want us to be over there anymore then any other American, save for the bush family. How'd you like that 6' gator popping out of the pythons belly though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Now with out that last sentance this would have been right back on topic! Btw, nice mesencephalus you have there Pug! At least, better than that Gollum... (why quoting Andy and speaking to Pug?.. just in the spirit of the thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I don't want us to be over there anymore then any other American, save for the bush family. Yes, but you are.....led by a government of the people...by the people......for the people...that lied to the people......well maybe that's why y'all need guns....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Yes, but you are.....led by a government of the people...by the people......for the people...that lied to the people......well maybe that's why y'all need guns....! Would you mind shipping my watches between one chitchat and the next one, TTK? (Out of joke [joke?!?] glad to see you are better) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Your watches shipped ages ago,......gimme details......by PM.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 We own firearms to protect ourselves from enemys both foreign and domestic. Unlike other countries, we do not expect someone else to do it for us. See how you did that? Nice going. The UK, the country I'm living in and was born in, is serving alongside the US in your latest war. We're there to help you. If you'd just fight it yourself, like you claim to do, we'd be in a much better state. When did the US fight the UK's wars for them? We've been allies since living memory and we've fought and died alongside you for generations. Don't come this World Police [censored] with me. You'll notice I've not even used the standard Friendly Fire tactic of picking on the US military because it's tragic and I hate picking on people for doing their jobs. When did this revisionist "fighting your wars for you" [censored] start, anyway? It's both morally and historically inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Your watches shipped ages ago,......gimme details......by PM.....! Thanks, TTK. PM sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 And surely even the flick-knife is no match for the rapier-like put down! Is your name Guybrush Threepwood? :tumbleweed rolling by: I'l get my coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake48 Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Tell us how you really feel then mate. Have you seen the one where the python try's to eat the 6ft alligator in the everglades? We even have our own panther, not that anyone ever see's the damn thing. The last one probably got hit by an SUV some time ago. Anywho, I think this thread started with .45's and Pams so, back to it then. We own firearms to protect ourselves from enemys both foreign and domestic. Unlike other countries, we do not expect someone else to do it for us. NICE! Good pictures, nice segway back to the intent of the original poster - Just a picture of your gun and your watch. I agree with TTK, for some strange reason guns and watches compliment each other very well. For me, it is the simple marvel I experience at the craftmanship and deliberate purpose and efficency of a purpose built mechanical device. And guns, like watches, always intrigue me as I wonder what story they could tell about thier previous owner and where they came from... As far as the whole gun thing goes, my COLLECTION is for work. If you don't like guns don't buy one - just becuase I happen to like them, I wouldn't insist that you own one and likewise, I would assume if you don't like them, you would not find it appropriate to tell me I can't own one. Makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 I don't think so....it's more complex than that....although most Americans are....! I stopped reading after that. Goodbye, TTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted September 7, 2007 Report Share Posted September 7, 2007 Awesome. Love the combo. And thanks for serving for us all, so people like me can sit around posting in safety all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section8 Posted September 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 since there are knives being posted now, thought i'd dig up these older pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted September 8, 2007 Report Share Posted September 8, 2007 I stopped reading after that. Goodbye, TTK. The rest of it too complex for ya sweetie.....not simplistic enough....eh....I think that's about the 3rd time now you've capitulated....good job we're not depending on you serving us....must be the Italian that's in ya......! S'funny.....they're not serving me nor millions of others all over the world....yet we can sit around posting in safety all day as well....strange logic ya have there sweetie pie....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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