Davidsen Quality

[Jawo]

I have just ordered a 127 (Ultimate Fiddy) and 111E Ultimate from Davidsen. While his watches look very good, I have heard mixed reviews of his quality. He states that his reps have superlumed hands and dials, but how good are they actually? I know that the work is very hard to compare to The Zigmeister's, but I need to hear from members who have had some experience with both. I have a current 111H that The Zigmeister modified with superluminova and the cannon pin fix that looks spectacular. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[mezzanine]

I'm curious about this too. I've come to appreciate 'fit and finish' more than actual fidelity to the genuine watch. The reason I'm inclined to go with Davidsen is because I've heard his watches are better from the perspective of 'finishing'.

The Panerai's are tough for me, as someone coming to them from the 'outside'. My experience with reps so far is almost exclusively with 'super reps'. As a result, that's my standard. Panerai's are by design simpler watches. The finishing standards that I'd apply to my HBB may not be the best measures for evaluating Pams.

I have no room in my collection for watches that don't meet the most exacting standards, in terms of their overall quality. It's hard to know how the Pams correspond to the developments in the rest of the rep world...same as with Rolex. With rolex, the watches tend to become better in direct correlation to the gen parts that are used in modding. I 'get' that standard more than I do the Pams.

The one I'm interested in is the 127. The watch just grabs me.

[Victoria]

I have just ordered a 127 (Ultimate Fiddy) and 111E Ultimate from Davidsen. While his watches look very good, I have heard mixed reviews of his quality. He states that his reps have superlumed hands and dials, but how good are they actually? I know that the work is very hard to compare to The Zigmeister's, but I need to hear from members who have had some experience with both. I have a current 111H that The Zigmeister modified with superluminova and the cannon pin fix that looks spectacular. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Bottom line is, if you get a non-Quality Control issue Davidsen, it'll blow your socks away, especially the Fiddy.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that his 112 has to be seen to be believed. It's GORGEOUS. My favourite watch.

(Can't speak to the 111e, but perhaps others can)

The thing is, and I say this fully satisfied now that he's corrected the issues, his recent Quality Control and general customer service has been very bad. Almost to the point of being insulting, and I think a few people can back me up privately about that.

-- They may not want to go on the record, as I have: I'm a little more brazen and the odd woman out here, so sometimes I feel more courageous --

Fortunately, he can be worked with when things go wrong. I have a thought he prefers repeat customers and not first-time buyers, but perhaps that's just me. I say this because he became more communicative after I bought my second DSN watch from him -- whereas in the first instance, it was like pulling teeth to get him to answer questions. Try not to bother him too much, as an aside.

He later apologised very cordially, though.

If this sounds like a mixed review, I suppose it is.

Near-perfect DSN watch = heaven on earth. But getting one these days is hit or miss. I fancy there are still A LOT more hits than misses though.

Best of luck to all!

[mezzanine]

Very useful info, V.

I think that it's important not to censor ourselves too much, as far as how we describe our experiences. I can understand why there's an established culture of supporting dealers, but painting a realistic picture of the buying experience is ultimately what keeps quality control and communication up to standards that are otherwise not possible via the net.

I'm thinking I'm going to try to acquire a Davidsen fiddy in the second hand market, to try to circumvent the possible hassle of poor communication and potential quality control. Problem is, I hardly ever see the new ones for sale. I take that as a positive sign of the quality of the watch.

It's interesting how the world of pams are in some ways very inclusive and seperate from the rest of the rep landscape. It's difficult to know what standards to apply when coming into this 'world' from the outside. The measures I've used to apply to super reps or even rollies is much different.

[Victoria]

I'm thinking I'm going to try to acquire a Davidsen fiddy in the second hand market, to try to circumvent the possible hassle of poor communication and potential quality control. Problem is, I hardly ever see the new ones for sale. I take that as a positive sign of the quality of the watch.

Mezz, when you get a good Davidsen Fiddy, you should hang on to it for dear life. Yes, very rarely have I seen one for sale, whereas Eddie Lee's Fiddies can be had by the M&M-full...

BTW, my Fiddy's stem had to be shortened by a local watchsmith (when I finally found one who would work on it). It's not perfect -- the crown wriggles back in when you are setting the time, and I have to keep popping it out.

But because it is heart-meltingly beautiful, the bridges engraving especially, and just the general FEEL of the Fiddy (it feels EXPENSIVE), I can certainly live with that.

His Ultimate 112H is beyond reproach, despite that it has threaded lugs. Don't worry about that. He sends you retractable springbars with them, and you can probably ask him for more.

Again, he works with you. He's VERY East Asian that way. It's like you can bargain with them all day long.

[P4GTR]

When I began shopping for my first Panerai, I began to communicate with DSN. aaand thats where he lost my business. DSNs replys left me wanting in multiple ways, he took his time, and generally speaking I found him to be less helpful then I needed him to be for me to send him $400 of my hard earned money.

I went with Joshua. I realized with that order, that I was no longer going to shop other dealers anymore, there was no point. I realize the lume is poor and the cannon pin is not correct, as well as the lever being a bit thin, but i'd rather mod it then deal with someone that I cannot effectively communicate with. And i'm satisfied enough that modding is not in the near future beyond the strapculture strap on it currently.

My watch is beautiful and solid. Joshua was helpful as always. The 177H I received? Well.. have a look-

[mezzanine]

Good guidance, V....I'll certainly keep it mind as I hunt for a Pam. The 112 is appealing to me as well, but I like the titanium models more in the 44mm category. I'm sure his 177h is really good too- and I could see myself ending up with one of those as well as the fiddy.

The fact that it really does have a superior level of finish to the standard pams should be inpiration enough for me to give it a shot. My definite preference would be to try to find one used, where I could avoid the issue of having to go through the process of acquiring one from asia. But as you observed, they're not very numerous on the sale board. It's the one time that you have a problem- like you're acutely aware- that makes you hesitant. It's not even so much the problem, but rather the problem of having no incentive on their end to resolve it once the sale has gone through, and the extremely long amount of time that it can take to get it sorted out.

I'm a huge stickler for AR, and I've read Davidsen has the best AR among the dealers.

[Victoria]

When I began shopping for my first Panerai, I began to communicate with DSN. aaand thats where he lost my business. DSNs replys left me wanting in multiple ways, he took his time, and generally speaking I found him to be less helpful then I needed him to be for me to send him $400 of my hard earned money.

Some will tell you he doesn't speak English well. I'm not sure, actually. I've seen some private correspondence with others, and it's plenty fine.

However, COULD be he has someone translate the stuff for him, perhaps a secretary. And his manners are rough-and-ready, to be honest. Another supposition is that he's used to the cutthroat world of HK, and clearly lacks the personal touch of an Andrew (and having finally contacted him) a Joshua, who are SUPERB in communication. Simply flawless.

I'm not quite sure what is at work with DSN, but he does finally settle down. Trust me. As I said, he even apologised in a very gentlemanly way for being curt. He must be aware of it, and one has to factor in that he's basically an one man operation, constructing watches in a small workroom -- just he and a smallish staff.

I think of Davidsen as an artist, and like many artists, he's temperamental.

Ah well. Go with what feels best, I say. I love Andrew, and TWP is awesome, so there.

@Mezz' follow: His AR is stunning. You can really see it on the 112, since the domed crystal of the Fiddy, of course, gives it a bluey-aspect.

@Sssurfer: Since you are The Master, I think people should listen to you more than ANYONE here. I fully concur that if you're the non-modding type, that sticking to a DSN is best. I seem to fall into this category. Also, I've heard modding can be expensive -- nearly $200 more than a fully paid up Fiddy, which is $420 factoring in WU fees. That's a little too rich for my blood, whether or not I have the money. My absolute cut-off is $400 for any rep. And used watches, $150.

[sssurfer]

Davidsen's watches -- especially his mos recent, 'ultimate' watches -- most likely are some of the best out-of-the-box reps one could get. Provided that that one does not get so unlucky to get a flawed piece the way it happened to our ever-loved V.

Still, a complete modding by The Zigmeister simply outperforms any out-of-the-box watches.

DSN lume is very good, but as far as I know it was not Superluminova, until very recent times at least. I heard that DSN is soon going to release models with real SL. Maybe his most recent models are SL lumed already, I don't know that for sure.

Also, as far as I know DSN's fix for the short cannon pin is a cosmetic one, while The Zigmeister's fix is definitive.

And so on.

In the end, I would say that DSN watches make for an excellent choice to anyone who do not want to take the hassle to select the best rep of his preferred model and have it furtherly modded by The Zigmeister.

[hyster]

I bought a DSN fiddy at the tail end of last year, the crown wobbled but it was stunning so I kept it, after a while timekeeping became very inaccurat.

It had been a while since I bought it so I wondered if I was going to have any bother getting it repaired. I contacted DSN and he said to send it back, it came back with a fault and went back, next time it retuned all was fine and has been since.

The very first one I had lumed like an absolute beast, this one is great for a while then dies a death.

I dont feel the need to risk returning it for that, if it bothers me I will contact The Zigmeister.

There are issues with his QC but as has been said, a good one is very, very impressive.

A friend was laughing at the size of my watch at a wedding recently, I took it off and handed it to him, he flipped it over to look at the back, his jaw dropped, and stayed dropped.

He said he would wear it the other way round. :-)

[turboGUATE]

I have bought from DSN 3 watches until now. 2 of them had issues, but they were replaced and had no trouble comunicating with him. You have to take in account, like V said, that he is one man, and probably his english is not the best. So at the end, his mails are very short and concise. In spanish we have a phrase for that: AL GRANO!

So, if at the end of the day, you want the best possible feel of your watch, take a DSN. It might be a while, and a hit and miss procedure. But I guarantee the satisfaction.

Cheers!

[section8]

I didn't purchase my 177 directly from him, but every time I have emailed, or sent him a PM i have gotten a very very prompt and courteous reply. The main reason I never ordered directly from him really was because of issues I had with my bank not allowing me to do online WU transactions.

So i sidestepped and talked slai into selling me his DSN 177

The quality of this watch is amazing. The CG Lever is tight and flush, the crown is gorgeous, and the lume is ridiculous.

[cc]

i've owned a 055, E movement fiddy, 176, two 111h's and a 232 from DSN.

All of the watches i've received from DSN have had no problems. He's eventually responds to my emails and has always taken care of me. NO winding issues, crown/crown guard issues, dial issues, perfect everything...... however, i decided to send my 232 for an upgraded dr. brown dial and it came back a little crooked. no worries... carlsbadrolexs watchsmith fixed it in 5 minutes. (he's now the proud owner of the 232 and fiddy) and he didnt even charge me!!

cc

[mezzanine]

section8, that 177 looks awesome. I love the titanium pams, and the 177h is my favourite of all of them. And even to a pam-newb like myself, the Davidsen 177 looks immaculate. Almost enough to persuade me to go with the 177 instead of the fiddy to start.

I have heard the comment about getting mods done after-purchase from The Zigmeister or others as a preferable option to going through davidsen, in fact, Flav even mentioned this a while back- saying that Davidsen may have slipped a bit recently. With the availability of AR coating now through k222 and Chief, davidsen's monopoly on having the best crystals may not be as significant a factor- and I think he sells them individually anyways.

The problem I have with paying for aftermarket mods, is that the price quickly escalates to very expensive territory. I imagine that the aftermarket modded watches are probably better- for example, I'm not sure if Davidsen's lume could touch what Vac does for TWP's pams...and as was mentioned with the 'cosmetic' fix vs. the actual fix that The Zigmeister does to the cannon pin problem.

[red]

I purchased the 111 and it came with a slew of issues. Loose crown, loose back screw, stripped case, were all problems I've had at different intervals. Each time DSN was more then happy to fix it for me, however the hassle of sending your daily timekeeper back is a hassle. I do beleive he has excellent service, but his quality control is consistently lacking.

However, the finish on the dials is great, and his crown and crown guard are amazing. If you are heavy into modding I would not hesitate to call on DSN every time.

[Jawo]

Wow!! This is all extremely good information and thanks for the input and contributing to this thread. I think that aside from asthetics, all can contest that quality control is of foremost importance. I have heard both good and bad for DSN watches. I hope I am one of the lucky ones. I should be receiving them sometime next week. I will post a full review with pics when I get them. I am excited yet nervous. I certainly hope that all turns up well.

[mezzanine]

Quality control issues are a real issue- resolving them is expensive and time consuming. Shipping back to China is both risky and expensive...one of my biggest concerns with any transaction is to try to avoid having to increase the cost of the extraneous factors- shipping, doing *anything* to a replica watch is inherently poor value, as the work is as expensive (for the most part) as doing them to gen watches.

That's the thing that I feel Davidsen has an advantage on- he gets the mods all done in one package, without absolutely breaking the bank. You don't have to incur shipping costs to various modders, etc...as well as paying for the work. However, you add quality control issues to the equation, in terms of the % of watches that have those issues, you immediately nullify those savings or any advantage to going with him as opposed to TWP.

[Guest carlsbadrolex]

As ChinkieChunkie stated above, I have two DNS's from him. And two others I have purchased elsewhere. The Fiddy is without a doubt the most impressive watch I own. As the owner of 4 DSN's, I wouldnt spend my money on anything else... I have NOT purchased one directly from DSN, so I cant speak to his customer service. But the quality of his watches is beyond my expectations! They will be in my collection forever!

[mezzanine]

I've been trying to follow the issue of the fiddy and the mystical question of what the AR should look like on the fiddy crystal. Is davidsen's AR'd crystal 'real' AR....for example, on the cheaper Chopard GTXL, there is what 'appears' to be AR on the underside of the crystal, but I think it's a type of 'fake' AR film that some of the rep makers use in place of real high quality stuff.

k222 is willing to do a customized AR run for panerai's...possibly using the yellowish colour found on some of the crystals, and I can't help but wonder if it would be worthwhile to send the davidsen crystal in for a coating job. It seems to be one of the only outstanding issues left on that watch. If the AR on the davidsen is truly high quality, then I probably wouldn't bother, regardless of the colour.

There's still ambiguity about whether Fiddy's even have AR. It's strange that it's so vague- but I guess Panerai may have changed their colours and all of that over the years. Some have speculated as to whether it's double-coated, single coated, or even coated at all.

[Guest watchbuff]

Hi all

I went by the reputation and statement sbased here on what Davidsen 's quality has been. It's seems MOSTLY positive. i just ordered a modded 111H and he stats his mods is :

Superlumed dial and hands,

No recessed cannon pin

AR Gen sapphire crystal.

All this for a a smidge under what TWP get's for what appears to be the same watch set-up.

Are there other mods I will need to do?

Im a PAM virgin, just want to get it right the first time!

Thanks!

[whopfish]

I got a 177h from David and the quality was excellent.

Much more impressive was his promptness to help me fix a repair after I've got the watch for several months. Beats all the other dealers I've dealt with, who tend to be more transactional.

[rckh]

Bottom line is, if you get a non-Quality Control issue Davidsen, it'll blow your socks away, especially the Fiddy.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that his 112 has to be seen to be believed. It's GORGEOUS. My favourite watch.

(Can't speak to the 111e, but perhaps others can)

The thing is, and I say this fully satisfied now that he's corrected the issues, his recent Quality Control and general customer service has been very bad. Almost to the point of being insulting, and I think a few people can back me up privately about that.

-- They may not want to go on the record, as I have: I'm a little more brazen and the odd woman out here, so sometimes I feel more courageous --

Fortunately, he can be worked with when things go wrong. I have a thought he prefers repeat customers and not first-time buyers, but perhaps that's just me. I say this because he became more communicative after I bought my second DSN watch from him -- whereas in the first instance, it was like pulling teeth to get him to answer questions. Try not to bother him too much, as an aside.

He later apologised very cordially, though.

If this sounds like a mixed review, I suppose it is.

Near-perfect DSN watch = heaven on earth. But getting one these days is hit or miss. I fancy there are still A LOT more hits than misses though.

Best of luck to all!

Dear All:

U talking about Mr.DSN? Right! I got to say something here & now.

I deal with him 2 times; the first time is my first PAM 113 white-dial. Absolutely perfect right out-of-the box; the only issue is the movement didn't regulated -233sec/day. It's not a big deal; my watchsmith fix it within 10mins & only cost me USD$4.- ( u could read my review; hyperlink under my signature)

20th Oct.,2007 is our 1st year wedding annivesary with my wife. She let me pick a watch & she pay for it as a gift. (Some memeber close with me they knew my wife not support this hobby) The only condition she ask for : I can't sell it. As a result; I need something reliable & trouble-free. OK, I make my decision to grab the 111H from david base on the good experience last time. But my story just began.

Lightning shipment as usual; next day arrival (HK to HK). David told me that my 111H had been QC personal on last week & guaratee it's good. When it arrived; It really [censored] me off...Why? Check this out:

1.) Scratches are ALL over the case, CG: Left side, bezel, the case back is HORRIBLE! Too many of scratches i even can't count how many they're!! It just look like a used watch or second hand

2.) CG lever is crap! loose & low quality. I guess it's a normal CG provide in most of the cheapest PAM

3.) Crown: Crown had been banded. When I wind the movement; it just keep turning back (un-wind) itself. That's Funny ar?

4.) Movement: "Offinice Panerai" painting crooked & outlined. Also; I could found scratches (AGAIN!!!) , dirt on the movement. The most important thing is: I don't believe it's a ETA 6479 movement. Why? remember the crown turning back when I wind? It's a common problem on CN/Asian clone movement issue. WTF?

5.) Hand: The hour-hand misalign. e.g) At 6 o'clock; the hour-hand not point striangle at 6. about 1~2mm apart from it.

OK! I contact DSN for sure for the follow-up action. I mention all the above problem in my email & I just got the reply extremely fast within 15~20mins....(DSN always reply my email around 3~4 hours later). He just simply replied: Sorry to hear that. Ship it back to me. David.. I rush into the postoffice and mail back the "crap" to DSN after 3 hours i received.

After that; he promise to send some photos for my confirm next day. Yesterday morning; I received his photos & confirm to send it back to me.

This morning; I recieved my replacement at morning 9:30am. Guess what? The package not came from HK anymore; it came from GZ(China).....compare with the photos; it's the same watch.(Do u know what I'm try to say? Personal QC my AXX!) This is perfect? NO, I found another minor issue again.

In my definition; provide a replacement, willing to fix the problem = a Good dealer? NO they just provide their after sales-service. A good dealer should do what they promise to do. Send me the right item I paid for; Give me the quality u said to me. I don't want hear from any members said to me "They're reps; If u looking for a perfect one. Go get a GEN". I think it's a [censored]! Because of u; the dealers dare to scam us. because of u; dealers dare to send u the item with QC problem. Because of U; dealer always try to step toward push our limit. Why? we accepted! we fix it by ourselves! We just keep silent! It's not the way it should be, I don't accept.

I'm a un-lucky bastard? I'm a perfectionism? Maybe yes. I really don't know.

Why we need this community? Because it keep us together, share our knowledge/information. And the most important things: Protecting us. So, Please,please, don't be a hero to backup your dealer when they did something very wrong. Otherwise; things will getting worst.

2 days ago if u ask me whether I will recommend DSN for our buddies? No hestiation; I say YES! Right now, I won't say that. I don't know, I just don't know.

Best Regards,

Raymond

[Victoria]

2 days ago if u ask me whether I will recommend DSN for our buddies? No hestiation; I say YES! Right now, I won't say that. I don't know, I just don't know.

As I mentioned to you, Raymond, you have my sympathies over this NEEDLESS frustration. If his Quality Control is really becoming THIS shoddy, then I would have to rethink recommending people to him.

I still love his watches, but this is UNACCEPTABLE treatment not only to a repeat customer, but to any customer (and a fellow countryman). And for the price, sorry, it should be nearly flawless.

We'll see. I am still thinking of buying his PAM 249 without hesitation, though.

[rckh]

As I mentioned to you, Raymond, you have my sympathies over this NEEDLESS frustration. If his Quality Control is really becoming THIS shoddy, then I would have to rethink recommending people to him.

I still love his watches, but this is UNACCEPTABLE treatment not only to a repeat customer, but to any customer (and a fellow countryman). And for the price, sorry, it should be nearly flawless.

We'll see. I am still thinking of buying his PAM 249 without hesitation, though.

Thx for your sympathy & comfort for me. I'm no longer angry. Just a little be disappointed. As I told my wife I placed the order on Tue(2/10/2007); she curious asking me why I still haven't got my watch last night. I felt sad & sorry to my wife; but I can't told her what had happen. This watch is not only for me; for both of us.

I always be a gentlemen to my dealer. I did wrote a positive review for them when they did a good job & I also refer my friends to my dealer. I just thought I should deserve a better service more than that.

Best Regards,

Raymond

[tech]

I can see now that I will have to rethink my potential purchase of one of his watches...thx for the fyi....