crystalcranium Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 I ordered Joshua's new SMP Chrono and it was pointed out in a previous post the case back is engraved "Speedmaster" despite a Seamaster seahorse/wave pattern logo on the back as well. This will be the second Omega I have with a Seamaster/Speedmaster substitution somewhere on the rep that is not the result of simply a mismatched part. Is this a language translation problem? Do the Asian rep companies not recognize the difference these few letters make. How could they reproduce a Seamaster engraved logo on a watch case back and then engrave Speedmaster on it unless they thought this was an insignificant spelling difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Well crystalcranium I think you are looking at it from our perspective, when you look at it from theirs, they sell them by the bucket load so there is really no need for them to be concerned how it's labeled. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8o8 Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 i think factory workers gets paid literally peanuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted May 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Well I'm really not asking the question as an indictment of their QC levels. I know what I'm getting when I get a rep. My question has to do with the specifics of the spelling and how this might slip by more often than other errors. For exapmle, from our perspective, supose we reproduced an Asian watch that had Chinese characters engraved on the back. Might we miss the significance of the difference between two characters that look exactly the same to our eye but which have a subtle difference in say the angle of a vertical stroke. Suppose this "angle" difference means the difference between Speed and Sea? Just a thought about the quirks inherent in the translation process between these two very different languages. I once recieved a piece of woodworking equipment from China that had an interesting translation in the user directions. Where it should have said "adjust the hold down screw" the literal translation was printed "adjust the hold down fu*#"!!!! Well crystalcranium I think you are looking at it from our perspective, when you look at it from theirs, they sell them by the bucket load so there is really no need for them to be concerned how it's labeled. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Sometimes these things are done deliberately so they cannot be accused of creating perfect reps in the legal sense. Sometimes it's because they just make silly mistakes because of the language barrier. For a while the earlier fiddy's had one F missing from Officine - eventually someone realsied it and it was corrected. Why not buy a gen back for the speedmaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 No you missed my point. Our perspective is based on the fact that we see it as a glaring fault, but to most of the public if it says Speedmaster on the back then thats what it is (despite the seahorse), now someone may indeed have stuffed up on the production line.............but hey!, they're selling like hot cakes..........so the factories really have no incentitive to fix the prob. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted May 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 You mean SEAMASTER!!! Arughhh!! I guess this is hard even for us. To be honest, I thought I went over Joshua's pics with a fine tooth comb and I didn't notice the error. I have already emailed him to inquire about getting a seamaster case back. Sometimes these things are done deliberately so they cannot be accused of creating perfect reps in the legal sense. Sometimes it's because they just make silly mistakes because of the language barrier. For a while the earlier fiddy's had one F missing from Officine - eventually someone realsied it and it was corrected. Why not buy a gen back for the speedmaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrgod Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Correct me if I am wrong, but the genuine Speedmasters do also have the Seamonster on the back, and "Speedmaster"?? The Seamonster is some of an Omega-trademark, and not just connected to one range. However, the wavepattern on the caseback is just for the Seamaster range, I belive.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevomd Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 The point is that they could give two shites whether it says speedmaster, seamaster or shitmaster. As long as there is a market for these flawed reps, then they will always be there. Remember we at these forums are a mere drop in the bucket for these mass producers. They mostly cater to the bulk buyers and then there are the scam sites that will sell these flawed reps for 500-600$. KMost people who buy reps are not interested in the accuracy of their timepiece, whereas for some of the "WIS?" that frequent our forums that is the only thing that they see. Remember we rep collectors can probably spot a fake better than anyone, even the AD's. Eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namor Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 This is easy to explain. A good friend of mine has visited China a few times, he spoke to the "makers" of our watches too. It's indeed a language problem. Chinese even have difficulties to understand their own written language ! Please don't get me wrong - I don't say they're stupid, but they have unbelievable amounts of varieties of Symbols. He gave me an true example: One day (he visited a fair over there) he had a real bad headache, so he asked a translator where to get some Aspirine. The translator explained him the way and because it was a little away he wrote him the way on a sheet of paper so he could show it others on his way to ask again. He then showed this paper some other chinese on his way to the pharmacy - only 1 of perhaps 5-6 people could read what was meant... Another Problem is that there is no factory who does make a necessary parts for a watch - for every part there is a specific factory. (Some who ONLY make the hands, some who ONLY make the dials and so on...) So the factories who really assemble a whole watch have to get the parts from everywhere ! If you're doing any kind of business too you know how difficult this is !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 And, sometimes it's simply a matter of the factories using what parts they have on hand. Who knows- The casebacks might be from the assembly line of a different watch in production over a year ago! Factories are going to try to get away with spending as little as possible into operating and production expense as it cuts down on their overhead and adds to the profit margin. If they've already paid for these casebacks and simply have them laying around in their inventory (and of course, they work with the cases that they are using), it would probably make more sense to them to use those up before buying or tooling for a new batch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwai02 Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 They just don't need to get it right to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted May 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Just got an email from Joshua who said he will be meeting with the manufacturers in a few days to discuss correction. He also said when an accurate replacement case back is available, he will send me one. We'll see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Just got an email from Joshua who said he will be meeting with the manufacturers in a few days to discuss correction. He also said when an accurate replacement case back is available, he will send me one. We'll see! You sound skeptical; would you like to make a bet? Shortly after I found RWG, and started buying from dealers here, I bought a Patek Philippe rep from a dealer that arrived missing a screw. I didn't buy this watch from Joshua as I shopped it around and beat his best price by $20 - although I will say that I had not dealt with any of the dealers here very much at that time. I notified the dealerI bought it from and was promised a replacement. This was no cheap rep - for about $300, I felt I should be able to wear it. To make a long story short, after months and months of promises, I was working up an order for several watches from Joshua and mentioned the problem I was having to him. He didn't sell me the watch, but he had me a replacement screw within the week. This was not an isolated incident. I have bought a lot of watches from him (dozens) and I have had problems, just as we all have problems, but I have yet to have a problem he didn't deal with right away. If Joshua says you will get a replacement case back, you will get a replacement case back. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted May 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 That sounds great. I do not have much first hand experience with him as this is my second purchase but his reputation on these boards seems to be impeccable. You sound skeptical; would you like to make a bet? Shortly after I found RWG, and started buying from dealers here, I bought a Patek Philippe rep from a dealer that arrived missing a screw. I didn't buy this watch from Joshua as I shopped it around and beat his best price by $20 - although I will say that I had not dealt with any of the dealers here very much at that time. I notified the dealerI bought it from and was promised a replacement. This was no cheap rep - for about $300, I felt I should be able to wear it. To make a long story short, after months and months of promises, I was working up an order for several watches from Joshua and mentioned the problem I was having to him. He didn't sell me the watch, but he had me a replacement screw within the week. This was not an isolated incident. I have bought a lot of watches from him (dozens) and I have had problems, just as we all have problems, but I have yet to have a problem he didn't deal with right away. If Joshua says you will get a replacement case back, you will get a replacement case back. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 The factory workers are clowns and the owners tend to be blind about everything besides money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 The factory workers are clowns and the owners tend to be blind about everything besides money... Gunnar - you are only 50% correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 i think factory workers gets paid literally peanuts No, only monkeys work for peanuts. Conditions in Chinese factories improve day by day - everytime I go on factory inspections I see big improvements in working conditions and standard of living. Their salaries are low by western standards - but so is their cost of living. The monkey in this thread is the guy who designed the caseback. The workers (or, as I prefer to call them, nimble-fingered Chinese maidens) just screw them on. They would be happy to fit the correct caseback, for no extra salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vric Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 i think factory workers gets paid literally peanuts More like rice than peanuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towcat Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Conditions in Chinese factories improve day by day - everytime I go on factory inspections I see big improvements in working conditions and standard of living. Their salaries are low by western standards - but so is their cost of living. You nailed the good and bad of standard of living/cost of living. There's a place I go to for lunch, they have the best claypot rice compared to anywhere else I go to. two years ago, my rice with lap cheung and lap yuk(big sp here) and a 750ml bottle of Haizu (12%) beer set me back 5yuan. Today, its 7yuan. Compared to USD its dirt cheap...8yuan=1usd...but the avg factory worker made 400-600yuan/mo two years ago and today they make700-800 yuan/mo. Honestly, they really don't care what it says on the watch, the workers just put the darn thing together....as many as they can and as quick as possible. The owners aren't dumb either, they are more than happy to sell seconds, but if you want first rate quality? Be prepared to spend a little more. Oh yea, stateside, the seconds are sold at "factory outlet" stores. Doesn't matter what culture you are, money is good as long as product is moved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Chinese workers can make iPods, Sony TV's and stereos, Dell computers . . . they can put together anything correctly so long as they get proper parts, training and instructions, same as anyone else. The problem isn't the guy making the watch so much as the people running the factory. I remember reading an interview with a US executive at a large company who basically said that the notion that Chinese factories can't make top-quality stuff is mostly a crock . . . he admitted that he was aware of many companies that shift output to China, purposely downgrade specs and materials at the same time and then blame it on "shoddy Chinese worksmanship." It's a convenient way for them to cash in with both hands while shifting blame for any quality issues. I imagine rep makers pretty much do the same thing, to the extent they care at all . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahrnt Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 The point is that they could give two shites whether it says speedmaster, seamaster or shitmaster. So...who has the best Shitmaster? And is it waterpfoof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00-Aspire eshop Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 I ordered Joshua's new SMP Chrono and it was pointed out in a previous post the case back is engraved "Speedmaster" despite a Seamaster seahorse/wave pattern logo on the back as well. This will be the second Omega I have with a Seamaster/Speedmaster substitution somewhere on the rep that is not the result of simply a mismatched part. Is this a language translation problem? Do the Asian rep companies not recognize the difference these few letters make. How could they reproduce a Seamaster engraved logo on a watch case back and then engrave Speedmaster on it unless they thought this was an insignificant spelling difference? You are buying the model produced for low-end market. So,that's not Q.C or language translation problem. There target customer only know how to spell OMEGA. If you really care about this,you should stay with the real hi-end replicas. Have a nice day. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 (edited) But if you want an honest opinion, good advice, fair pricing, cuddlesome after-sales support - and a prompt response, stick with Joshua. And - he has the high end reps, too. Just thought I'd apply my two-pennn'orth to Pauls sly dig. Old-timers will know why. For the benefit of newcomers, there is a clue in the fist line of this post... Edited June 6, 2006 by Highflyingclive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 For the benefit of newcomers, there is a clue in the fist line of this post... PAULMART "We insult the other dealers so you don't have to." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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