This is the reply you've all been waiting for or expecting

[TeeJay]

What exactly are my old games

From the comments others have posted, your 'old games' would appear to consist of offering goods/services for money and then either a ) not providing them, or b ) providing them at either a ludicrously advanced date (ie months later) or goods which have not met the buyer's expectations. As someone else said about you. Have they been ripped off. Technically, no, morally, yes. Don't try and use forum rules intended to prevent flame wars to make yourself look like a victim when one of your former clients loses their patience/temper, and berates you in a less than polite manner. If you've done something wrong, then rather than ignoring the problem or using your personal circumstances as an excuse, just be a man and admit to it. If you had problems 6-9 months ago, then fair enough, we all go through tough times, but, rather than keeping the people's money and goods, you should have returned them to them immediately, not this far down the line.

what do you think I will do "Over there" - do you think Risti's will be sending me their watches

for a re-lume!! Really - be serious.

Oh, so they wouldn't consider sending you a watch to have it serviced for considerably less than an AD would charge? Just because the cosmetic modifications that some engage in to try and pass their reps off as gens would not apply on that forum, there would still be services which you could charge people money for, and simply not provide. Is that serious enough for you?

Far from re-inventing myself I have never made a secret of who I am and my login name is the same here as there.

You may be using the same name, and, as much as I thought your post gave a very valid and fascinating insight into the Rep World, it still came across as "I used to do that, but not anymore..." That comes across as re-invention, plain and simple, and, when it happens at a time when there are people who, shall we say, do not hold you in the highest esteem, it comes across as rather sleazy and self-serving.

We've never had any dealings, so admitedly, I can only go by what others have said about you, so if my assessment of you is inaccurate, then my apologies, however, I do not take kindly to people who abuse the trust of others (in whatever circumstances those abuses may occur in), and do not take kindly to such people affecting a larger community of people. Money doesn't grow on trees, people have to work for it. Some have to work harder than others, some have more than others, but at the end of the day, everyone here who buys something, be it a product or a service, had to earn that money, and no-one deserves to be either intentionally ripped off, or to experience delays in refunds or compensations.

[offshore]

@AMK000,

A response as a singular mod... not from the team.

Yes, we were well aware of the situation, as it unfolded from information from members; it was the subject of much discussion within admin.

And yes, steps were taken to protect members... for instance, he wasn't banned, to leave the door open for ongoing contact.(and some others, not to be disclosed here)

As far as a written warning to members, I beleive the many threads on the subject-just some of which I post below-

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=324725

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=349540

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=239287

should have been ample warning for any member who carried out even the remotest search!

However all this info surfaced "after the event", and we certainly didn't have a crystal ball to fortell actions.

The reason for this forum, is for information to pass freely... in a perfect world it would all be positive and useful info, in this case negative, but still useful info was published.

Where possible we try to leave it to the members to arrive at their own judgements, and only act when we see irrefutable scam attempts in progress ( you would be amazed at how many new "members' are removed at 1st or 2nd post!... 1 in the last 24 hours)

I might add, that just like the general membership, there was a variance of opinions within admin, however, as always, the most popular opinion held sway, and the team proceeded on that course of action.

So I beleive the judgement call of the team, finally has been proven correct, contact has been restablished, and it would appear that things are being sorted.

But we are not the rep police, we manage the running of the forum, not the policing of actions, or lack thereof, of members.

Offshore

[b16a2]

From the comments others have posted, your 'old games' would appear to consist of offering goods/services for money and then either a ) not providing them, or b ) providing them at either a ludicrously advanced date (ie months later) or goods which have not met the buyer's expectations. As someone else said about you. Have they been ripped off. Technically, no, morally, yes. Don't try and use forum rules intended to prevent flame wars to make yourself look like a victim when one of your former clients loses their patience/temper, and berates you in a less than polite manner. If you've done something wrong, then rather than ignoring the problem or using your personal circumstances as an excuse, just be a man and admit to it. If you had problems 6-9 months ago, then fair enough, we all go through tough times, but, rather than keeping the people's money and goods, you should have returned them to them immediately, not this far down the line.

Oh, so they wouldn't consider sending you a watch to have it serviced for considerably less than an AD would charge? Just because the cosmetic modifications that some engage in to try and pass their reps off as gens would not apply on that forum, there would still be services which you could charge people money for, and simply not provide. Is that serious enough for you?

You may be using the same name, and, as much as I thought your post gave a very valid and fascinating insight into the Rep World, it still came across as "I used to do that, but not anymore..." That comes across as re-invention, plain and simple, and, when it happens at a time when there are people who, shall we say, do not hold you in the highest esteem, it comes across as rather sleazy and self-serving.

We've never had any dealings, so admitedly, I can only go by what others have said about you, so if my assessment of you is inaccurate, then my apologies, however, I do not take kindly to people who abuse the trust of others (in whatever circumstances those abuses may occur in), and do not take kindly to such people affecting a larger community of people. Money doesn't grow on trees, people have to work for it. Some have to work harder than others, some have more than others, but at the end of the day, everyone here who buys something, be it a product or a service, had to earn that money, and no-one deserves to be either intentionally ripped off, or to experience delays in refunds or compensations.

Dear all. Teejay I am not singling out your post here, just the l;ast one, and a an appropriate one to reply to, as a general one to reply to them all.

Firstly, in September of 2006, I sent a watch to Mark. Communication suffered, I didnt see my watch again for a period of many months. So like many of you, I was suspicious. However, I like to think that I am a good judge of character, and when we did speak during that time period, although few and far between at times, Mark was honest with me, I have no questions about it. He genuinely was going throuigh a bad patch. I am not going to analyse what should have been done, what did happen, we can all draw conclusions, and Mark himself has replied with his reasons. I say, take them or leave them,l I will however say they are genuine reasons (Im not saying it makes everything alright, but they are genuine)

Secondly, I am in no way affiliated with Mark. I am a friend of his, and got to know him through the board, over the phone, and met with him once face to face. I haven't got any monetary interest (meaning that I dont have a reason for putting a good word forward other than what I sincerely feel), I am doing so because I know he is genuine. Some might say a Leopard doesn't change his spots. But what spots are we attributing to Mark. Are we saying because of the past year, some people had bad dealings, and therefore he is an untrustworthy person. Or should we look, in reflection, at the fabulous work he had done over the years previously to this.

Thirdly, risti's are anal (stereotypically) do you think they would even consider cutting costs to send it to a third party, when they can send it to an AD and have the quality Panerai technicians do it? I believe Mark is on that board to help people out. To spot reps. We do it here, in our own scam and auction section. We are speculating too much on things that just won't happen. Fair enough, beware of Mark if you believe he is a scammer, but I want you to know, I dont suffer fools gladly, and Mark is no scammer. If he was he wouldn't be back here today. By his own submission, some mistakes were made. Bad patch in his life = bad dealings which he has shown remorse for. This isn't the attitude of a scammer. Far from it.

Fourthly, I want you to read this as my view and my view only. I cannot delve into Marks mind, because if I could do that, I wouldn't be training to be a lawyer, I would be making millions telling fortunes to people, but I have given an account of how I see things.

Fifthly, please don't dissect my post and repsond to it in this way. It is merely a post that is for you all, and is meant to be used as a piece to put in the jigsaw. For some it will mean nothing at all, you have views set in stone. For others ewho didn't deal with Mark, and are forming judgements based n the 'bad press', here is something for you to consider. It is my account of my dealings with Mark, and my account of how I value him as a friend.

Best Wishes to you all.

b16a2

[Victoria]

Well, so far we have two character references in Kruzer00 and b16a2 (who pleads for his post not to be responded to. Heh, some hopes).

That's pretty good I'd say, given the weight of what was written, and the calibre of the gentlemen involved.

I don't know if Mark will be trusted or not in future, but at least you know there are two people who stuck their necks out when this matter was still red hot, and called him "Friend". One should be so lucky.

[FxrAndy]

Mark did the work on my fiddy too, new hands, crystal and canon pin, i am very happy with what he did, some dust appeared later on the dial but this was proberbly hiding in a cut out on the dial when it was re assembled and i in no way blame mark for it. If you have not had dealings with Mark then you should be reading this post, thats all.

[TeeJay]

Dear all. Teejay I am not singling out your post here, just the l;ast one, and a an appropriate one to reply to, as a general one to reply to them all.

Firstly, in September of 2006, I sent a watch to Mark. Communication suffered, I didnt see my watch again for a period of many months. So like many of you, I was suspicious. However, I like to think that I am a good judge of character, and when we did speak during that time period, although few and far between at times, Mark was honest with me, I have no questions about it. He genuinely was going throuigh a bad patch. I am not going to analyse what should have been done, what did happen, we can all draw conclusions, and Mark himself has replied with his reasons. I say, take them or leave them,l I will however say they are genuine reasons (Im not saying it makes everything alright, but they are genuine)

Secondly, I am in no way affiliated with Mark. I am a friend of his, and got to know him through the board, over the phone, and met with him once face to face. I haven't got any monetary interest (meaning that I dont have a reason for putting a good word forward other than what I sincerely feel), I am doing so because I know he is genuine. Some might say a Leopard doesn't change his spots. But what spots are we attributing to Mark. Are we saying because of the past year, some people had bad dealings, and therefore he is an untrustworthy person. Or should we look, in reflection, at the fabulous work he had done over the years previously to this.

Thirdly, risti's are anal (stereotypically) do you think they would even consider cutting costs to send it to a third party, when they can send it to an AD and have the quality Panerai technicians do it? I believe Mark is on that board to help people out. To spot reps. We do it here, in our own scam and auction section. We are speculating too much on things that just won't happen. Fair enough, beware of Mark if you believe he is a scammer, but I want you to know, I dont suffer fools gladly, and Mark is no scammer. If he was he wouldn't be back here today. By his own submission, some mistakes were made. Bad patch in his life = bad dealings which he has shown remorse for. This isn't the attitude of a scammer. Far from it.

Fourthly, I want you to read this as my view and my view only. I cannot delve into Marks mind, because if I could do that, I wouldn't be training to be a lawyer, I would be making millions telling fortunes to people, but I have given an account of how I see things.

Fifthly, please don't dissect my post and repsond to it in this way. It is merely a post that is for you all, and is meant to be used as a piece to put in the jigsaw. For some it will mean nothing at all, you have views set in stone. For others ewho didn't deal with Mark, and are forming judgements based n the 'bad press', here is something for you to consider. It is my account of my dealings with Mark, and my account of how I value him as a friend.

Best Wishes to you all.

b16a2

I totally appreciate that you weren't replying to my post directly, simply using the last available post, and I do appreciate your request not to dissect your post, but there are two points which I feel obliged to point out.

Firstly, no matter how anal a person is about something, if they can something (or something done) as good as 'the real thing' for cheaper (ie non-official technicians) then human nature would be to go with the cheapest option. Why pay a high price to Mr X, when Mr Y can do the exact same job for a fraction of the price? Paying the higher price has nothing but the prestige of spending money, and that was why I pointed out (at Mark's request) what I thought he would possibly do on Risti.

and Secondly, as admirable as it is for you to defend your friend, this is very much the same issue (at it's core) as has been discussed over issues like The Cartel, and one where, in that instance, people were prepared to look beyond their own good dealings with someone, if there was the chance that the person was dealing less honestly with others, as that was something that affected the overall community, not just them, and they disaproved of. So a similar stance would be appropriate here. As I said, I totally appreciate and respect the points you made, but I felt compelled to adress those specific issues as they are very much at the heart of the overall issue. Had Mark not responded to my post, I would not have posted anything further as I was simply pointing out an opinion which had been formed from other's comments, and as I said above to Mark, if I misjudged him, then I have apologized for doing so, and tried to explain why I may have done so.

Indeed, best regards to all.

[b16a2]

@ the forum. When I stated I didnt want anyone disecting my post, I meant it in the sense that I didn't want for it to become a back and forth discussion of our opinions. I cant change peoples opinions on this matter, but I can help towards a fuller judgement on the topic. However, if someone has a genuine reply to a statement I have made, then obviously who am I to plead a immunity to replies that are different to mine.

[b16a2]

I totally appreciate that you weren't replying to my post directly, simply using the last available post, and I do appreciate your request not to dissect your post, but there are two points which I feel obliged to point out.

Firstly, no matter how anal a person is about something, if they can something (or something done) as good as 'the real thing' for cheaper (ie non-official technicians) then human nature would be to go with the cheapest option. Why pay a high price to Mr X, when Mr Y can do the exact same job for a fraction of the price? Paying the higher price has nothing but the prestige of spending money, and that was why I pointed out (at Mark's request) what I thought he would possibly do on Risti.

and Secondly, as admirable as it is for you to defend your friend, this is very much the same issue (at it's core) as has been discussed over issues like The Cartel, and one where, in that instance, people were prepared to look beyond their own good dealings with someone, if there was the chance that the person was dealing less honestly with others, as that was something that affected the overall community, not just them, and they disaproved of. So a similar stance would be appropriate here. As I said, I totally appreciate and respect the points you made, but I felt compelled to adress those specific issues as they are very much at the heart of the overall issue. Had Mark not responded to my post, I would not have posted anything further as I was simply pointing out an opinion which had been formed from other's comments, and as I said above to Mark, if I misjudged him, then I have apologized for doing so, and tried to explain why I may have done so.

Indeed, best regards to all.

Completely understandable. As you have stated, both here and on the other topic people have had bad dealings, and therefore it would affect the community as a whole, therefore they don't deserve to be part of it (in a nutshell) One point I would like to put across here (and in fact I agree with most of your points on the other topic, which we shall not delve into, blimey that would be a can of worms haha) is that I feel that in this case there are genuine mitigating factors that affected the charateristics of Mark. He wasn't thinking straight. Now obviously the acts were done, and therefore the bad circumstances that Mark found himself in are mitigating factors, and it doesn't take away the fact that people lost out, but I would personally draw a clear line between people who have an intent to scam (as there was suggested in the dare I say it 'cartel threads') and the situation here, where things got out of hand, and the wrong action was taken, and a few people lost out. I cannot, and will not speak on the behalf of Mark, but I am certain he will fix things as best he can. This should not be construed as an act to win back any titles, but it should be construed as evidence he is genuine, and he is trying to make amends where appropriate.

[TeeJay]

Completely understandable. As you have stated, both here and on the other topic people have had bad dealings, and therefore it would affect the community as a whole, therefore they don't deserve to be part of it (in a nutshell) One point I would like to put across here (and in fact I agree with most of your points on the other topic, which we shall not delve into, blimey that would be a can of worms haha) is that I feel that in this case there are genuine mitigating factors that affected the charateristics of Mark. He wasn't thinking straight. Now obviously the acts were done, and therefore the bad circumstances that Mark found himself in are mitigating factors, and it doesn't take away the fact that people lost out, but I would personally draw a clear line between people who have an intent to scam (as there was suggested in the dare I say it 'cartel threads') and the situation here, where things got out of hand, and the wrong action was taken, and a few people lost out. I cannot, and will not speak on the behalf of Mark, but I am certain he will fix things as best he can. This should not be construed as an act to win back any titles, but it should be construed as evidence he is genuine, and he is trying to make amends where appropriate.

I quite agree, there is the difference between someone who intends to mislead and scam, and someone who's circumstances have conspired against them to make it harder for them to keep their word. As I mentioned previously on the issue of subscriptions, had I not been given 'a rubber cheque' by someone I did work for, I would have made the contributions I promised. However, without that sum, I'm in the position of making up the sum and having to meet essential needs first. My holiday, for example, had I waited till the last minute to pay for, I wouldn't've been able to go, but, as it was fortunately pre-paid, I went, didn't have much cash beyond daily food requirements, and made the best of things, but, to get back on track, if someone has someone's money, and access to the net, they can return it almost immediately. If someone has parts for a person, but can't modify them as promised, then for the cost of postage and packing, that also can be returned almost immediately, and in those instances, there really is no excuse for delays, and at the risk of playing Devil's Advocate, I suspect at the heart of the issue, it is the delays which people are most concerned about. Had they received communications, refunds, returns etc, I am sure they would have had the utmost understanding. The other aspect which can chafe, are the comments Mark made like "I was up till 2-3 in the morning and then had to work an 8 hour day..." Those are the kind of things people have little patience for, as, at the end of the day, everyone knows the circumstances/sacrifices/hardships involved 'with what they do', and they still willinging continue to do them regardless of those factors. I once read a book by an artist I greatly admire, who detailed the necessity for professionalism in one's work. He had a deadline on a project the following morning, and had just about completed the piece, when his airbrush 'hiccupped' and spat gobs of paint onto a key area of the piece. His only option was to spend the rest of the night re-working the piece to repair the damage so he could hand it in on the deadline, and of course, it would have been unprofessional to tell the editor it had taken him all night to correct the unavoidable error, and of course, the editor's only comment was an unknowing "Nice airbrush work..." That's the kind of standard which any self-employed person should hold themself to.

I'd best be off as it's been a long day of travelling, and my week ahead promisses little but playing 'catch up' on my projects.... Peace out folks

[b16a2]

I fear I may be starting to do what I said I wished not to do As with anything there is always another point that can be put across, and again Teejay, it is a very reasonable point to put across.

I won't contribute anymore to this topic, I feel I have said enough, and would just like to refer to a quote that I feel is key when reading my account (again not aimed at you TJ, just a general reference, but it seems my reply has again followed your post)

It is merely a post that is for you all, and is meant to be used as a piece to put in the jigsaw. For some it will mean nothing at all, you have views set in stone. For others who didn't deal with Mark, and who are forming judgements based on the 'bad press', here is something for you to consider. It is my account of my dealings with Mark, and my account of how I value him as a friend.

QUOTE EDITED FOR TYPO's - seems to be a common occurence for me at the moment!

[lanikai]

Lessons can be learnt by all here.. mainly (just my opinion) .. not to bite off more than you can chew .... we see this happen time and again .. and the label that seems to be synonomous when deadlines or expectations cannot be met is "scammer' ..

Maybe it is because that is what this Forum is here to guard against .. so the initial response to misinformation real or imagined is just that ... Scammer .... it would be equated to looking for gold in a river bed and anything that shines is panned immediately and the first thought that hits the brain is .. i hit it.. "I found one"

so it is only fair that whoever is involved .. deal with mark though private PM ... any ill feelings should be dealt with in private also.. IMO .... I think we need to remember that we are dealing with a Human Being here.. with emotions and feelings too.

I don't know if this has snowballed into the "Monster" that it is.. i for one can attest to that feeling

I cannot imagine the resonsibility that some members take on with group buy's and projects that the entire membership is waiting for.. I felt bad for Rocket when the dial project fell through because he spent time and money (his own) on trying to accomadate members and bring something better to them.. I was more dissapointed for him than the fact that there would be no dial for now..

I am going to help members where i can ... for me it's not for reimberscement .. and not the entire membership... because i have to set limits.. on my time... since there is so little of it during a 24 hour cycle.

My point is I hope Mark can walk the walk .... everyone goes through bad times in life and I can relate to this aspect of being lathargic or loosing interest in certain Hobbies that could bring back whatever feelings..

we can psychoanalyze this left and right.. but maybe what we should do is give the space needed for the members directly involved and Mark to correct the miscommunication or whatever Mark needs to correct.. I don't think we are helping the situation by posting negatives.. if the post is by a member who have articles or funds outstanding then I don't mean to offend you ...you have every right to do what you do..

all I am "suggesting " is some time for things to be ironed out and not add fuel to the already burning fire..

just my 2 cents.

lanikai

[Finepics]

I had said that I doubted I would read any of your replies but I have because, despite what some of you still seem to think (and what I

said in my initial response), I actually do care very much and I do feel very guilty. I'm human and I do have feelings and some of the

comments made were deeply hurtful even if I fully deserved them.

I have done my best to give as honest and as full an explanation of my situation and as best an apology as I could possibly give in the

circumstances. I hoped I'd made it very clear that I was not making excuses and made a point of saying that I'm not expecting any

sympathy or apologies, all I had wished for was a little more understanding and perhaps a little more acknowledgement of the

positive contribution I made here, and at the old RWG, which I'm sure that most, if not all, of you benefited from at some time. Some of

the earlier projects I was involved with were very successful and I did countless re-lumes and other small mods that were equally

successful - many more successes than failures overall and I'm still saddened that some of you still seem to completely overlook that.

That said there are several of you who have offered me some support and I'm deeply grateful to you.

However I realise that an apology alone is not enough, deeds not words, and I have replied to all the emails I have received so far

(actually surprisingly few) and have offered to make the appropriate amends to those individuals.

Some of you have asked some questions or made further comments that I would like to reply to.

I love watches and always have since my early 20's. As I already mentioned I signed up to Risti at about the same time I

joined the old RWG and have always answered the odd post here or there and bought and sold the odd strap from time to time as well,

although always with a little caution because of owning reps, so I wasn't doing anything that I had not already been doing and

really didn't think anything of it. I suppose all that changed more recently was that I didn't feel quite the same need to be as cautious

as before. It really didn't occur to me that I risked being "outed" because I was completely oblivious to the level of ill feelings

mounting up against me here since my absence. If I had been worried or really wanted to re-invent myself (as some have suggested) then surely I would have re-registered with a completely new identity.

Yes I did go to a GTG (if it could be called that). In response to the post about the fake market an Aussie risti emailed me to ask something. In the subsequent exchange of emails that afternoon he told me that he was actually in London on business and was going to

a meet that same evening (I had no prior knowledge of this) although it was short notice would I like to come. Normally I would have declined because of my being a rep owner (I didn't have the gen at that time) and told him so but he said that did not matter to him and not to worry about it. Because I rarely go out these days other than the very occasional drink with colleagues, and because actually I'm very bloody lonely here by myself and because it was only a 10 minute journey from my work I decided to go. There were 4 present inc me, 2 were from Aus (one is actually a mate of DW) and 1 from UK. None were at all judgemental about the rep I had with me - in fact they were very impressed by it. They were extremely nice people and it was a pleasure to meet them. I don't have the slightest regret about going.

There is one thing though that I want to make expressly clear as there still seems to be doubts about it. I have given up watch work

specifically because my eyesight has recently deteriorated quite significantly because of wearing loupes in my day job. Loupes do this

because they weaken the already weak muscles that cause my close vision to be affected. This does not mean I'm going blind but it does

mean I cannot focus on anything close up (I'm actually long sighted) and the nature of my work means I have to be able to do this. It's

a catch 22 situation - the more I wear the loupes the more my eyes will suffer - but the catch is that I can't do my job without them.

My day job is my living and my eyes/hands are my job. When you get to my age things start to go downhill more rapidly and I need to retain my eyesight for as long as possible so that I can still hopefully have a job until I reach retirement. So stopping the watch work was the only answer.

There is one other reason which relates directly to the question about my doing work for Risti's instead of sending it to an AD. One of

the major risks with doing work on someone else's watch is what if something goes wrong (part of the reason we are here). It's very very easy to scratch something or cause some minor damage no matter how careful you are. Sometimes it's possible to get a spare part from Angus or someone and make good the damage to a rep but imagine this happens to a genuine watch worth several $$$$ - I can't call Panerai and ask for a new dial or new set of hands. I'm not a professional watchsmith and have never professed to being one and don't have any insurance against such an event either. If Panerai damage something in service (as they certainly have done) they can just go to a drawer and get a new one.

So no, I have absolutely no intention, and have never even contemplated it, of ever doing any work on any genuine watch ever and the very suggestion of it is frankly preposterous. I have given it up for good (and that goes for reps too).

Finally - just for your amusement and something of an irony - in Sept 2006, on the recommendation of a dual member RWG'er, I paid $1800 to a well known, but then unbeknown to me, Risti who is supposed to be making a few 1:1 "homage" pieces. I still have nothing to show for it and no progress reports unless I pester him. Make of that what you will.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Finepics

[linkukbora]

@ Mark,

I've ordered 03 pcs of 2893 DW since Jan,2007 and have yet to receive from you despite repeated emails sent to you. I've now sent you another email and awaits your long overdue answer.

I've got Mark respond with amicable solution......I am now prefer to have my refund but that's has to wait till 25th this month. I'll let the board inform of the final outcome.

[POTR]

Back when I was a young soldier, we used to say "One 'Aww-s h i t' wipes out one hundred atta-boy's."

Of course, the closer to perfect you get, the more the people hate you as well...

People are always more comfortable with the familiar, and will better accept you being slightly flawed, or dirty, as long as they don't feel used or abused.

Communication is key to ensuring that customers don't feel the everyday crap that happens from any activity isn't being intentionally flung at them.

[lanikai]

@POTR... he he .... we still use that phrase in the business I'm in..it's true with Human nature

[AMK000]

@AMK000,

A response as a singular mod... not from the team.

Yes, we were well aware of the situation, as it unfolded from information from members; it was the subject of much discussion within admin.

And yes, steps were taken to protect members... for instance, he wasn't banned, to leave the door open for ongoing contact.(and some others, not to be disclosed here)

As far as a written warning to members, I beleive the many threads on the subject-just some of which I post below-

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=324725

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=349540

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=239287

should have been ample warning for any member who carried out even the remotest search!

However all this info surfaced "after the event", and we certainly didn't have a crystal ball to fortell actions.

The reason for this forum, is for information to pass freely... in a perfect world it would all be positive and useful info, in this case negative, but still useful info was published.

Where possible we try to leave it to the members to arrive at their own judgements, and only act when we see irrefutable scam attempts in progress ( you would be amazed at how many new "members' are removed at 1st or 2nd post!... 1 in the last 24 hours)

I might add, that just like the general membership, there was a variance of opinions within admin, however, as always, the most popular opinion held sway, and the team proceeded on that course of action.

So I beleive the judgement call of the team, finally has been proven correct, contact has been restablished, and it would appear that things are being sorted.

But we are not the rep police, we manage the running of the forum, not the policing of actions, or lack thereof, of members.

Offshore

@Offshore:

My whole intention was a positive critisism. Honest.

The indicate topics shown above, are fairly new ..... , the members reviews not always indicate the true situation and many

[offshore]

@Offshore:

My whole intention was a positive critisism. Honest.

@AMK,

No offense taken, and we are the 1st to want to receive any critiques! (Especially positive )

And on that note, I will take your suggestion to the admin team, and if it strikes the right accord, we would move on it.

Offshore.

[TeeJay]

I had said that I doubted I would read any of your replies but I have because, despite what some of you still seem to think (and what I

said in my initial response), I actually do care very much and I do feel very guilty. I'm human and I do have feelings and some of the

comments made were deeply hurtful even if I fully deserved them.

I have done my best to give as honest and as full an explanation of my situation and as best an apology as I could possibly give in the

circumstances. I hoped I'd made it very clear that I was not making excuses and made a point of saying that I'm not expecting any

sympathy or apologies, all I had wished for was a little more understanding and perhaps a little more acknowledgement of the

positive contribution I made here, and at the old RWG, which I'm sure that most, if not all, of you benefited from at some time. Some of

the earlier projects I was involved with were very successful and I did countless re-lumes and other small mods that were equally

successful - many more successes than failures overall and I'm still saddened that some of you still seem to completely overlook that.

That said there are several of you who have offered me some support and I'm deeply grateful to you.

However I realise that an apology alone is not enough, deeds not words, and I have replied to all the emails I have received so far

(actually surprisingly few) and have offered to make the appropriate amends to those individuals.

Some of you have asked some questions or made further comments that I would like to reply to.

I love watches and always have since my early 20's. As I already mentioned I signed up to Risti at about the same time I

joined the old RWG and have always answered the odd post here or there and bought and sold the odd strap from time to time as well,

although always with a little caution because of owning reps, so I wasn't doing anything that I had not already been doing and

really didn't think anything of it. I suppose all that changed more recently was that I didn't feel quite the same need to be as cautious

as before. It really didn't occur to me that I risked being "outed" because I was completely oblivious to the level of ill feelings

mounting up against me here since my absence. If I had been worried or really wanted to re-invent myself (as some have suggested) then surely I would have re-registered with a completely new identity.

Yes I did go to a GTG (if it could be called that). In response to the post about the fake market an Aussie risti emailed me to ask something. In the subsequent exchange of emails that afternoon he told me that he was actually in London on business and was going to

a meet that same evening (I had no prior knowledge of this) although it was short notice would I like to come. Normally I would have declined because of my being a rep owner (I didn't have the gen at that time) and told him so but he said that did not matter to him and not to worry about it. Because I rarely go out these days other than the very occasional drink with colleagues, and because actually I'm very bloody lonely here by myself and because it was only a 10 minute journey from my work I decided to go. There were 4 present inc me, 2 were from Aus (one is actually a mate of DW) and 1 from UK. None were at all judgemental about the rep I had with me - in fact they were very impressed by it. They were extremely nice people and it was a pleasure to meet them. I don't have the slightest regret about going.

There is one thing though that I want to make expressly clear as there still seems to be doubts about it. I have given up watch work

specifically because my eyesight has recently deteriorated quite significantly because of wearing loupes in my day job. Loupes do this

because they weaken the already weak muscles that cause my close vision to be affected. This does not mean I'm going blind but it does

mean I cannot focus on anything close up (I'm actually long sighted) and the nature of my work means I have to be able to do this. It's

a catch 22 situation - the more I wear the loupes the more my eyes will suffer - but the catch is that I can't do my job without them.

My day job is my living and my eyes/hands are my job. When you get to my age things start to go downhill more rapidly and I need to retain my eyesight for as long as possible so that I can still hopefully have a job until I reach retirement. So stopping the watch work was the only answer.

There is one other reason which relates directly to the question about my doing work for Risti's instead of sending it to an AD. One of

the major risks with doing work on someone else's watch is what if something goes wrong (part of the reason we are here). It's very very easy to scratch something or cause some minor damage no matter how careful you are. Sometimes it's possible to get a spare part from Angus or someone and make good the damage to a rep but imagine this happens to a genuine watch worth several $$$$ - I can't call Panerai and ask for a new dial or new set of hands. I'm not a professional watchsmith and have never professed to being one and don't have any insurance against such an event either. If Panerai damage something in service (as they certainly have done) they can just go to a drawer and get a new one.

So no, I have absolutely no intention, and have never even contemplated it, of ever doing any work on any genuine watch ever and the very suggestion of it is frankly preposterous. I have given it up for good (and that goes for reps too).

Finally - just for your amusement and something of an irony - in Sept 2006, on the recommendation of a dual member RWG'er, I paid $1800 to a well known, but then unbeknown to me, Risti who is supposed to be making a few 1:1 "homage" pieces. I still have nothing to show for it and no progress reports unless I pester him. Make of that what you will.

As I said before in my previous response to you, my opinion came from information others had presented (which did include mention of your deterioration in vision (but which, under such circumstances, can sound like a way of gaining sympathy to deflect criticism rather than a genuine affliction. I am not saying that you are lying about the condition, merely pointing out how it can be perceived by those of less than generous natures) ) and if that opinion is incorrect, then I again apologize for that misconception. The is, however, one question I would like to ask:

If you realized that you were unable to complete 'the projects' as asked, (whatever they may have been) why did you not immediately return people's money or parts, rather than leave things for months?

Can you see how people could get the impression that it was their 'missing money' which paid for your gen PAM rather than the money from your own private sales? This is not intended as a criticism, just an attempt to illustrate the sentiments behind the message to hopefully facilitate a better mediation of issues, rather than focussing on the message itself. Best regards.

[POTR]

You COULD use Polls for anonymous feedback for various aspects of doing business with each collector... (sort of like the new anonymous feedback on ebay...) A set of polls for each will give everyone up to date info, and customers can vote what they sometimes can't say...

[promotersf]

well if mark is trying to make things right, credit back everyone that's paid for datewheels and haven't received them, that would be the welcome suprise of 2007. i'll send you an email and look forward to you honoring your commitment. our community is based on our members and trust...had you just communicated the delay or problem or some form of resolution, i think this would have been addressed a long time ago. the lack of communication to emails, a constantly full PM box, and your Houdini "disappearance" has all of us feeling betrayed. in life, we are only as good as our actions, not our intents. i look forward to seeing how this resolution pans out, and if you do honor your commitments to us, i respectfully applaud you for your honor.

dave

[rsv123]

This is a very interesting development, I haven't been on here as much as I have in the past due to work commitments. I am not a personal friend of finepics but I will say this, I have dealt with Mark since (almost) the beginning when he started to offer relumes. He relumed 3 of my PAMs and turned them round in 10 days or less. He even refused to install a datewheel I had sourced from elsewhere as he believed it would not fit and function properly!

I am however, one of the members who ordered but never received a datewheel for a PAM 029. I am able to believe that he has overcommited himself to modding and repair work and was taking on work that required levels of skill beyond his abilities, I would like to think this was more to do with trying to help members and not wanting to say no rather than due to greed, but the jury is out on that one. The worst thing abut this sorry state of affairs was by far the non-return of other members watches and the complete communication silence. The part I find hardest to forgive is the misleading information about illness, etc while still eBay trading and continuing to participate in other boards...

What has this done to me personally? Well, since this is my only (tiny) financial loss after 4 years of rep trading here, on eBay and elsewhere (often dealing with unproven characters) I count myself lucky, but I will be a bit more careful when dealing with other members in future and will be reluctant to buy modding parts.

[Finepics]

I would like to post another response, in general, to some of the further question/remarks made and then I would like to hope that a line can begin to be drawn under this issue finally. All oustanding issues I hope have now been responded to and resolved one way or another.

rsv123 - please email me.

Having read through more of the posts about me from earlier in the year I see how certain remarks have been able to perpetuate the general mood of ill feelings towards me despite the fact that they are innaccurate and have never been corrected. In one example a post reports, among other things, that a gen gold Rolex crown was not returned and that he'd have to write it off! Future readers will understandably assume that I "stole" his gold crown and that's that! (actually I never had a Rolex so the crown would have been worthless to me anyway!). The truth is that the crown was there all the time - the poster had not realised it when he made the remark but failed to follow up his post to amend it so the original suggestion remains.

Had I not disappeared from the forum when I did I no doubt would have challenged it so the only reason I mention this now is just to bring to your attention the dangerous side of forums where mis-information can easily, and sometimes unfairly, give a false impression. So members do need to show a little caution when posting negative comments about anyone in future (and I don't mean me!).

My references to my eyesight problem was poorly worded. I emphasised this point specifically in response to the remarks about my lining up gen Risti owners to send me their watches instead of going to an AD!!I was merely trying to explain that I have made a concious decision to give up any future watchwork on a regular basis because the strain of wearing loupes day and night was having a detrimental affect, the problem is perhaps overstated but certainly genuine, but that's not to say that I couldn't ever wear loupes occasionally outside of my work.

With regard to my gen purchase and members money - I actually made a net loss on the DW's and much worsened because of the refunds that are being given for wheels which didn't arrive (one member bought 3 in one go so for them to go missing was a big hit!). I purchased my gen from the proceeds of the sale of my rep collection. I had over 25 watches in total all of which were modded to the max, with swiss movts and genuine straps etc. I sold 5 of them in one go to a dentist colleague who gave me

Edited November 17, 2007 by Finepics

[thomasng]

Hey there Mark, I hate to ask, but do you still happen to have my 2893 datewheel that I have waited almost 18 months for? Thanks....

[promotersf]

Hey Mark:

send you an email earlier in the week to see if you were honoring the refunds you stated. i'll be the first to post your reconciliation if you do, just sent you a paypal request @ finepics@gmail.com.

my paypal address is dkang@supremesf.com

i've read your statements and actually have a friend that went into a state of depression who did, or more accurately, did not do the things that made him the amazing person that was my friend. i don't know you personally, all i know is that you offered a product and accepted payment then disappeared. let's see if your actions today can resolve your actions in the past.

[promotersf]

Wow, Mark actually emailed me that he would be sending our a refund paypal next week. For me, it's not the money but closure on an unpleasant event on a board and hobby I enjoy so much...with Finepics making an effort, I do commend him for his actions. His intentions may have been there initially without the follow through, but for him to put a resolution on something from so long ago and right a wrong on something I had written off, I do appreciate his gesture. Mark did advise he did have a replacement datewheel in lieu of a refund but I no longer need that datewheel.

I'm sure Mark and everyone else look forward to closing these chapters and moving on.