Chronus Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 (edited) I'm thinking of getting a rep that can be made (or is) water-resistant to use for swimming and/or gym. I'm thinking along the lines of the ubiquitous (not the guy) sub or other ral*x model, perhaps a titanium Breitling or Panerai. When I first came into the forums it was all r*l*x on my mind, got two, and then it's PAM fever along with some others (IWC, FM, AP, and always into Breitling and Omega from before RWG), so a r*l*x for swimming wouldn't be too bad. There are 1:1 subs coming out so I was wondering if these could be made water-resistant for swimming, showering, jacuzzis, saunas. I know a lot of the dealers will say a rep is a rep, apart from luckyyy who says his MBWs are waterproof. I know that Panerai reps are well made and would likely be water-resistant. Having looked at how a genuine AP Royal Oak is made, it's possible the reps could be just as effective if made in a similar fashion. edit: I'm not considering chronos for this... too many ways for them to leak or lose water-resistance over time. A nice simple watch with at most day/date functions. Any thoughts or suggestions ? Edited June 3, 2006 by Chronus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Absolutely no expertise here but my logic goes as follows. Three holes in the case, the opening for the case back, the crown and stem on a non chrono, and the opening for the crystal. A screw down crown and caseback it seems to me, should be easy to make reasonably watertight. Gaskets forgive a lot of machining sins and o-rings and case back gasket replacement should do the trick here. The weak link I would think would be the fit between the crystal and the case. On most of my reps, the crystal is pressed into a plastic retainer ring that is probably not upgradeable. Josh only guarantees his modded WR subs for 50M immersion which is really nothing in a WR watch. He mods the gaskets and seals so I would have to think the crystal fit is the reason he gives them a conservative rating.I'm thinking of getting a rep that can be made (or is) water-resistant to use for swimming and/or gym. I'm thinking along the lines of the ubiquitous (not the guy) sub or other ral*x model, perhaps a titanium Breitling or Panerai. When I first came into the forums it was all r*l*x on my mind, got two, and then it's PAM fever along with some others (IWC, FM, AP, and always into Breitling and Omega from before RWG), so a r*l*x for swimming wouldn't be too bad. There are 1:1 subs coming out so I was wondering if these could be made water-resistant for swimming, showering, jacuzzis, saunas. I know a lot of the dealers will say a rep is a rep, apart from luckyyy who says his MBWs are waterproof. I know that Panerai reps are well made and would likely be water-resistant. Having looked at how a genuine AP Royal Oak is made, it's possible the reps could be just as effective if made in a similar fashion. Any thoughts or suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted June 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Here is an interesting read on how the case for the AP Royal Oak is made. If the rep manufacturers make it in a similar (albeit cheaper) fashion, then it's possible that these could be water-resistant, at least for swimming. http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium...670172488072079 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 I wouldn't count on the rep factories doing anything similar. Your post does raise an interesting point. Replication of appearance is what we all focus on because we are a visual species. Replication of feel and sensation is for the most part ignored but would go a long way toward improving these reps. Replication of performance is the holy grail and the hardest to achieve. To me, modding a rep to have an adequete amount of WR would be an effort to make it a better rep by performance. Few will question the authenticity of your rep if you go diving into the pool with it and it remains intact. I just have my doubts about weather it's worth it. A 50m WR rep on your wrist in the surf is like modding your M-1 tank rep with a few 9mm hand guns and taking it down main street in Bagdhad. Underneath it all, it's still a chevy and no match for an RPG.Here is an interesting read on how the case for the AP Royal Oak is made. If the rep manufacturers make it in a similar (albeit cheaper) fashion, then it's possible that these could be water-resistant, at least for swimming. http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium...670172488072079 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Certainly all the PAM reps I have, and have seen, are made the same way as any normal watch, and are made in factories that produce legal watches as well. All the PAM's have an O ring in the crown stem tube, O rings in the crown, O rings in the caseback (although most casebacks are not done up tight). The plastic I ring for the crystal is a standard techinque for mounting crystals and indeed is what Panerai use - so are far from a weak link. All of them then are waterproof to a certain degree. Where Panerai differ is in the number of O rings in the stem tube which is marginally better engineered. I would happily swim/dive (to moderate depths) with any of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 I swam several days recently in Palm Springs wearing my Pam 118 rep. I also wear it while working out all the time. No problems at all, and the light weight makes it really good despite the size. I did lube the seal on the caseback and screw it in nice and right, and perform the non-scientific sink test first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Just bought a bergion (sp?) pressure tester... damn reps are failing left and right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Just bought a bergion (sp?) pressure tester... damn reps are failing left and right I hve posted a LOT of pictorials of waterproof tests. The subs, smp's, po's and pams have all done VERY well Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Probably just luck o' the draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted June 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Is there a way to increase water-resistance if a rep has none, like Craytonic's? Perhaps greasing o-rings and screwing down the caseback properly is a start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Is there a way to increase water-resistance if a rep has none, like Craytonic's? Perhaps greasing o-rings and screwing down the caseback properly is a start? Yes, and don't forget overtightness doesn't mean waterproof. You want to compress the silicon-greased O-ring, but not crush or tear it. tighten it enough, but not too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitime Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Yes, and don't forget overtightness doesn't mean waterproof. You want to compress the silicon-greased O-ring, but not crush or tear it. tighten it enough, but not too much. properly sized gaskets, with properly lubricated o-rings is certainly more important than overtightening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 You have seen my Asian Sub 24... I use it ALL the time in the water and NO PROBLEMO at ALL.... This summer I will also wear it at the sea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted June 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Maybe I'll go for a titanium PAM for watersports Light, as well as strong and durable. Maybe a cheap silix Asian movement version of the 177H perhaps, maybe even a relume. Or it may be cheaper to get a second PAM036 for water on a rubber strap Damn, it always comes back to PAMs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Maybe I'll go for a titanium PAM for watersports I wonder if the IWC Aquatimer is water-resistant ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oswald Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 I have an Asian auto base PAM on rubber that I swim with. No clear back, and you don't have to wind it as often which wears on the seals. I'm no expert but this but this one tested OK with the warm water and swimming test. It was also pretty cheap so it won't hurt much if it floods... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagae Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 I'm not considering chronos for this... too many ways for them to leak or lose water-resistance over time. While I too prefer not to get chronos wet - it's too easy to push a pusher and there are extra holes where water could get in, every watch will lose water resistance over time. If you spend a lot of them in the water, get it tested yearly and/or every time the case is opened. The O-rings to break down over time and need to be re-greased/replaced periodically. BTW, a solid back should be slightly more reliable than a display back. Found that out the hard way recently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 While I too prefer not to get chronos wet - it's too easy to push a pusher and there are extra holes where water could get in, every watch will lose water resistance over time. If you spend a lot of them in the water, get it tested yearly and/or every time the case is opened. The O-rings to break down over time and need to be re-greased/replaced periodically. BTW, a solid back should be slightly more reliable than a display back. Found that out the hard way recently... The pushers on the PAM's I have dealt with are again a standard type of chrono pusher (same as you would buy from O.Frei or Cousins) and are fully sealed with an internal O ring so again should be no less waterproof than a gen watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 I had my joshua 050 tested by my watchsmith. It came out to be waterproof up to 10 atm (the max allowed by the testing machine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfovco Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 I dunno... I leave my PAMs at home when I go to the gym and take with me truly genuine CASIO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilidog Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 I know i sound like a broken record about my swim beater, but the seiko orange monster (also avail in black) is a great watch for water, it is after all a diving watch, it's BIG, automatic, almost indestructible, and looks just freakin fantastic...look for em' on the bay for well under $200 on SS or rubber... personally i dont get the quest for a waterproof rep, its a rep, its like trying to go 180mph in a lambo made out of a fiero... JMO.... chili http://cgi.ebay.com/SEIKO-MENS-AUTOMATIC-M...1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/SEIKO-SKX779K3-SKX779-...1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted June 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 personally i dont get the quest for a waterproof rep, its a rep, its like trying to go 180mph in a lambo made out of a fiero... JMO.... chili It's the same as getting a rep - there are good quartz and mechanical watches cheaply available, but part of getting the rep, apart from the cheaper price, is for the name and the design, and maybe (for some) to be a member of the exclusive luxury "i can afford this" watch club and impress others etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted June 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 I know i sound like a broken record about my swim beater, but the seiko orange monster (also avail in black) is a great watch for water, it is after all a diving watch, it's BIG, automatic, almost indestructible, and looks just freakin fantastic... I've already got one Great luminosity too, but the crystal is mineral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Yeah I've got two Seiko divers one of which is tha Orange monster and you can read by the luminosity. Is the crystal mineral? Seiko calls it Hardex.I've already got one Great luminosity too, but the crystal is mineral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 I know i sound like a broken record about my swim beater, but the seiko orange monster (also avail in black) is a great watch for water, it is after all a diving watch, it's BIG, automatic, almost indestructible, and looks just freakin fantastic...look for em' on the bay for well under $200 on SS or rubber... personally i dont get the quest for a waterproof rep, its a rep, its like trying to go 180mph in a lambo made out of a fiero... JMO.... chili http://cgi.ebay.com/SEIKO-MENS-AUTOMATIC-M...1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/SEIKO-SKX779K3-SKX779-...1QQcmdZViewItem I've also got the orange monster, I agree it's a terrific watch. Still, it's nice to know you can swim with your rep at a pinch, and the reality is that Pam reps make very good all-around watches and do not need to be babied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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