keeno Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 (edited) Hi all Around six weeks ago i ordered a fully modded PAM 111h from one of our trusted collectors and today it finally arrived. When i opened the package i was absolutly gutted with what i had received. First of all the crown guard wasnt even attached to the watch. Also the crown doesnt sit close to the case when its closed. It also looks like the dial isnt square and slightly off centred to the right, im not sure about that one though. And i had paid extra to have a stainless bracelet but got a standard brown leather strap instead!!! I ordered this watch from this collector because he does all the mods himself and also tests and inspects the watches prior to shipping. Ive tried to screw the CG back on but it seems that the screws arnt long enough as they wont screw into the case. Id rather not name the collector but just hope that he sorts it out. I understand that with drop shipped watches there is always the risk that there might be problems but you expect much better service when you pay a premium for a QC'd watch!!!!! Here is a picture of it, please excuse the bad mobile phone picture. Thanks Edited December 12, 2007 by keeno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyphis Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Sorry, I don't see a pic. As for not stating the name of the seller, although a noble gesture I am not so sure how well it applies in this case. UNLESS there is a great excuse (shipping damage for instance) that credibly shows this is not the fault of the seller, I would let the community know. I would not think it is acceptable to sent out a modded watch in this condition and then think it's all OK if it is fixed when it is returned. This is not like a drop shipper or a non functioning watch in the rep business where those things might occur. I can understand (and have dealt with personally) these issues and have certainly kept it on the QT until a correction was done (It always has, BTW). But a modder to , by hand, send you this is inexcusable the first time out. This is important information to other potential buyers to weigh in the purchase of a watch. Please let us know of your findings, oh, and the pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeno Posted December 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Sorry i had a few problems posting the picture, it should be on now. Regarding the dealer, i have sent him an email and am waiting for a responce. I understand that it is every members duty to help the community by telling people about these kind of problems but was still unsure if i should let everyone know who this dealer is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slai Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Sorry i had a few problems posting the picture, it should be on now. Regarding the dealer, i have sent him an email and am waiting for a responce. I understand that it is every members duty to help the community by telling people about these kind of problems but was still unsure if i should let everyone know who this dealer is. I wrestled with the same decision when I got a horrible "modded" fiddy from the same collector. With all the positive reviews he usually gets, I thought maybe it was a one off and didn't reveal the name. Now I'm not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 I wrestled with the same decision when I got a horrible "modded" fiddy from the same collector. With all the positive reviews he usually gets, I thought maybe it was a one off and didn't reveal the name. Now I'm not so sure. First, I'd say always post a review even if you think it'll prejudice your future chances with him, because the community need to know. However, it's hard if the matter was settled equitably since you feel like a heel. I know I would too. Another thing, Keeno, guys, please I know this is hard, but take into consideration that if this is the collector I am thinking of, that the person has personal issues at the moment. We're all human, right? I think when he reads this, should he want to delurk, I think he might consider stepping back, slowing down, whatever. He's a great guy, but something is off since I personally get PMed a bit about his modding, and it's not good stuff. He must be worn out. Anyway, good luck, Keeno in sorting this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeno Posted December 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 First, I'd say always post a review even if you think it'll prejudice your future chances with him, because the community need to know. However, it's hard if the matter was settled equitably since you feel like a heel. I know I would too. Another thing, Keeno, guys, please I know this is hard, but take into consideration that if this is the collector I am thinking of, that the person has personal issues at the moment. We're all human, right? I think when he reads this, should he want to delurk, I think he might consider stepping back, slowing down, whatever. He's a great guy, but something is off since I personally get PMed a bit about his modding, and it's not good stuff. He must be worn out. Anyway, good luck, Keeno in sorting this out. Thank you for your advice Victoria. I am pretty sure that its the person your thinking of. I understand that people have personal problems but you have to be professional enough to not let personal problems affect your business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Why is everyone so shy about naming names? If it was me I'd say...Just received a fully modded 111h from 'so and so' and the quality seems a bit off...I'm awaiting his response to make good on this transaction... Why is this so negative? I hope everyone understands that mistakes occur and many times you're not going to get the perfect product, but its how the dealer rectifies the situation. This post sale behavior in my opinion is the key to a superior dealer. I don't think mentioning that he/she screwed up should be such a scary thing. I've received crap products from just about every dealer at one point or another just because of sheer volume. But I still go back to them because they've shown me that when they do screw up that make it all better...and sometimes with an added bonus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luisik Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 This is the kind of things why The Zigmeister left us. You should name that collector, as he is the one who should go. When someone promotes himself as the super modder, then there is no excuse to deliver even one single watch in such condition as yours. If this collector is honest enough, he should send you a replacement right now, without you sending him back your piece of junk to be "repaired", so he could show all of us he is worth of our trust. @Victoria, if this collector have personal issues, he should have adviced his customer about how bad mods he would be able to do and give him the choice to be refunded the money before giving a fenomenal sh*t as response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 @Victoria, if this collector have personal issues, he should have adviced his customer about how bad mods he would be able to do and give him the choice to be refunded the money before giving a fenomenal sh*t as response. I can't say you're wrong, Luisik, or anyone who feels this way. It's just hard because I know some background to the problems. Let's just not hound anyone, please... I'm sure he'll make it right. @Keeno: Darling, I agree with that. Hopefully, this will allow him to reappraise his situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsmith11 Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Seriously guys the object of this forum is to protect and share our experiences with the modders and the dealers, both good and bad. It isnt to insult the people just to get the info out there on what to expect from said dealer and if necc have them make changes. I am in the market for one of these PAMS so I would be very interested to know who it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweattdogg Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Wow that sucks. The watch in the pic is absolutely horrible. Personally, I think you are doing the right thing in contacting the collector first. Give them one chance to make it right, then out them if not. Crown guards don't just fall off these watches, and crowns don't just stick out like that. Something definately happened to that watch before it was even packaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB7 Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 I recieved my modded 111h a few weeks ago and the cannon pin was on a bit too tight so it wouldn't keep time...TWP was great about it, even experienced modder's make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes...These are rep watches, [censored] happens..How ever I do agree that some mistakes like the can pin are understandable, but a watch with no CG attatched thats a different story, thats mind boggling that it could be shipped out in that condition...I'll also go on record to say TWP handled the situation very profesionally, he told me to send it back so I did, and instead of fixing the watch he built me a new 1 and tossed me an extra strap and a discount towards my next purchase Don't worry friend, the dealer will take care of that for sure, hope everything works out for ya~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Posting this post without working directly with the dealer to see if they will equitably solve it is unfair to everyone. You are not going to embarras a dealer into doing the right thing because you have not given him the chance to do the right thing. If he does not fix the situation criticize away in the public forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeno Posted December 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 Posting this post without working directly with the dealer to see if they will equitably solve it is unfair to everyone. You are not going to embarras a dealer into doing the right thing because you have not given him the chance to do the right thing. If he does not fix the situation criticize away in the public forum. I understand your view on this matter but members need to know that just because a collector says that their watches are QC'd it doesnt mean that they will arrive without any problems. I felt that i should let people know, some members might think its wrong some might think its right. Everyone has their own opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 I understand your view on this matter but members need to know that just because a collector says that their watches are QC'd it doesnt mean that they will arrive without any problems. I felt that i should let people know, some members might think its wrong some might think its right. Everyone has their own opinion. It's already been said ..."mistakes happen" "these are reps" "it's how the dealer responds that matters"...I'd have kept my "powder dry" for now .. If you had the best interests of the membership in mind - and believed you could "out" a bad dealer it would have had more impact if the dealer had failed to rectify your problems and your reported that experience. Otherwise ...if just seems to be reporting a mistake...which lacks real significance on it's own... Best of luck ...I'm sure this can be sorted in a courteous way $0.02 FGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slai Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 It's already been said ..."mistakes happen" "these are reps" "it's how the dealer responds that matters"...I'd have kept my "powder dry" for now .. If you had the best interests of the membership in mind - and believed you could "out" a bad dealer it would have had more impact if the dealer had failed to rectify your problems and your reported that experience. I suppose this brings up the subject of what should be tolerated. The fact is the watch was supposed to be modded, and hand-inspected. In my case, when the watch finally arrived after 2 months, it came with huge scratches on the dial, hands, and the cannon-pinnion that was supposed to be installed, wasn't. The watch was more expensive than if it were from other collectors and I was willing to pay the premium to avoid the hassles of going back and forth trying to get a problem rectified. I paid extra because I wanted it right the first time. In the end, I just asked for a refund and took my money somewhere else. So in that sense, the problem was resolved but is this whole experience acceptable? Would you cheerfully accept this, or would you rather avoid this experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 Reflecting back on Ziggy's Exit post, this is an issue that keeps coming up again and again. People are claiming to be experienced in doing the modifications, members are placing their trust and money in their hands, and the results are ........well they suck. We need to be more careful, as a membership, to check references from other members experiences before sending off our hard earned $$$. My $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fijikid Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 I'm new here, but I gotta say what's the big deal about saying who you got it from? I wanna know and I sure as [censored] think that getting it right the first time is what I'd like in any seller of anything. It's almost as if people think it's OK for it to take three watches to get it right in the rep world, or two trips back across the world (no big deal!!). The reps I'm into are pretty much at $300 and over and I guess I expect them to have CGs attached. Call me crazy, but that's crap service and I wanna know who's doing business this way - personal problems or not. And it doesn't have to be a lynching - just say I got this from so and so and it came like this. He's sorting it out and will post a follow up. Tada! No aspersions cast, just the facts. Might help quality in the long run. These guys are selling as a business, not a favor, right? I know, in some cases, good relationships with dealers HAVE lead to favors and better than expected service, etc..but again, I'm not calling for someone's head, just an even-keeled depiction of the trade up to this point. I've always considered these forums priveledged places to do business - rapt audience, free advertising etc. - so you gotta play ball. Hope you get a complete watch soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fijikid Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 Hmmmm, maybe my noobness prevented me from discerning between collector and dealer. If my comments weren't appropriate for a "collector", then please excuse my delicious foot. MMMMM, my fooooottttt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donce Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 PLEASE....PLEASE Don't be the person who has $500 plus a watch of mine for mods! This is very unsettling news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazonkers Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) This thread is useless unless the dealer/collector is named. If not, it's just a [censored] session. Was the dealer named and I missed it? If not, WHO IS THE DEALER/COLLECTOR?! Edited December 13, 2007 by bazonkers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytona4me Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 People wonder why threads like these with no name are posted... It is the shot across the bow.. it's the "Attn: Collector, take me seriously or I will start naming names" thread. It's really the only leverage left other than resorting to the carnal sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 People wonder why threads like these with no name are posted... It is the shot across the bow.. it's the "Attn: Collector, take me seriously or I will start naming names" thread. It's really the only leverage left other than resorting to the carnal sin. I think the first shot should be in private between buyer and seller. Seems like this shooter went right to the post which is why the reaction you are seeing D4M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donce Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 This thread is useless unless the dealer/collector is named. If not, it's just a [censored] session. Was the dealer named and I missed it? If not, WHO IS THE DEALER/COLLECTOR?! I know the whole thing seems frustrating and believe me...more so for those waiting to see how things unfold. We, as a group of collectors, should keep these things out in the open. Since I don't know if this is the dealer that I am currently working with, I can't/won't comment as the result may be very pleasing and deserve great feedback. With that said, WOW.....this could possibly be a financial mess and dissapointment for several people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 I will agree with kruzer also.. i understand how you feel, believe me.. if the modder/dealer will not accept responsibility then that is another issue.. unfortunately many times we think the best and get the worst.. that is the reason I am willing now to wait ... however long it takes for my mods to go to Canada.. nuff said,.. on that emotions are involved .. just something to be mindful of... (from someone who was at the same place) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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