stilty Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 That's some real ingenuity stilty. Good stuff!! Thanks! I think that is what I get out of this hobby the "most". Problem solving. If everything was easy, It definately wouldn't be as much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Exactly, it's all about the spirit of problem solving, which I've come to believe is the most organic and authentic remnant of the spirit of the mechanical watch. I don't think in any other hobby, enthusiasts come as close to that intimate association with some of these problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted January 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Exactly, it's all about the spirit of problem solving, which I've come to believe is the most organic and authentic remnant of the spirit of the mechanical watch. I don't think in any other hobby, enthusiasts come as close to that intimate association with some of these problems. ....something in progress.....stay tuned :-) Very curious and hopeful that your ingenuity is rewarded- let me know if there's anything I can do to help facilitate, should there be anything that I can do to make things happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Actually it's a little of both. It's not pixellation, per se, but rather ink absorption into the vinyl. When coombined w/ the intentional misshapen letters as per OEM it creates a blurry look w/ the cyclops, which is why I've always said that these are really best on 1665's. I wouldn't put one on a 1680, and I designed and constructed these DW's. The good news is that silk screening would produce a 1:1 overlay and would also allow a VERY rigid medium to be used. I just could not find a screen printer in the states who would work at the tolerances needed and/or do a small run cost effectively, so I had to go with a hybrid process using thermal transfer printing and professional quality inkjet printing. I have the vector file, of course, already aligned and in several versions, exact copies of different OEM DW's. I also have the capability (which I recieved after making these overlays which were cut by hand) to cut a perfect ring to .01mm accuracy. I also have the perfect, rigid material to do more DW's than MBW has ever made. Just can't print the f***ers... If anyone has access to a professional screen print shop 'll supply the material (already tested for ease of instalation, rigidity, and UV screen print ink compatitbility) and do the cutting. You just tell me where to send the vectors. If anyone wants to do a brushed metal version I offer my heartfelt prayers--everything is doable easily except for the brushing. If anyone can send me a radially brushed piece of metal that I would use in my 1680, I'll immediately send you the vectors and cut them out in exchange for 1 overlay... As far as installation goes. between my watchsmith and I, we've installed a dozen or more of these floppy overlays with absolutely no difficulty on a variety of watches (I've made overlays for my overseas, nautilus and others). There's a trick to it, a trick that is way too hard to explain in writing but I'd be happy to help anyone who PM's me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 As far as installation goes. between my watchsmith and I, we've installed a dozen or more of these floppy overlays with absolutely no difficulty on a variety of watches (I've made overlays for my overseas, nautilus and others). There's a trick to it, a trick that is way too hard to explain in writing but I'd be happy to help anyone who PM's me. PM Sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Hi guys, excuse me if I break in on this thread. As some of you might know, I use to make proper DWs with the right font for some watches. So far I worked only on Panerai, IWC and Breitling, for various models. A few months a go, a member asked me if I could put in production the right overlays for this Rolex 1680 and gave me the info to start working on it. In fact I started working on this project, but then I had to pass it on hold, because I had too many other things to do at the time. Recently I finally started working on it again, when today I came across this thread. Before going ahead with this project, I wanted to make sure if all of you would appreciate me working on it, as I don't want to do anything that might be unwellcome for anyone. In case anyone would like to get a properly made metal 0,2 mm thick overlay, both with white background and radial brushed metal, I would be pleased to help. As you know these ones would be printed by a professional dials/DWs printer and so, they will last forever. Just let me know, thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 I am in for this project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Lello ? Is that you ? I guess you are joking man! We all want some great "metal" DW ...not only for 1680, why not for 1665? If you plan to help us, poor Rolex fans, well we will be more than happy to listen and see... Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Lello, a brushed metal overlay would be a dream come true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Lello ? Is that you ? I guess you are joking man! We all want some great "metal" DW ...not only for 1680, why not for 1665? If you plan to help us, poor Rolex fans, well we will be more than happy to listen and see... Cheers Stephane I'm sure many of you would be very happy if I would make some good overlays for this one and maybe even other Rolex. I just need to make sure nobody would be damaged, in case somebody else already started working on something like this. In case this will be ok for all, I just need an additional information: As I don't own this rep and so, I can't test the overlay on the watch, i need as more informations as possible, to avoid any mistake. I know that the size of these overlays is 14,5 mm the inner diameter and 22,5 mm the outer diameter. I'm going to use the CAD way to make the graphic file and so, there won't be any chance of vertical misalignment. But to place the numbers in the right position also horizontally, I need somebody to let me know the exact measure from the dial center axis, to the center of date window. Can anyone let me know? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 In case anyone would like to get a properly made metal 0,2 mm thick overlay, both with white background and radial brushed metal, I would be pleased to help. 0.20mm is too thick for an overlay for the reps. It has to be the same thickness as rep overlays. 0.07mm. I have some Stainless steel blanks in 0.07mm that I had made to try and replicate the burshed finish, but the brushed finish is hard to replicate. I've tried making a few brushed blanks, but can't match the genuine disc. I have two genuine brushed radial 1570 discs for reference. I think they will have to be made from aluminum to match the look and finish of the gen, but then that will be very difficult to work with, especially at 0.07mm thick. I have special ordered some 0.07mm aluminum material from a local supply company and when I get it, I will see how easy it is to work with. I'm not imagining it to be that easy. I also have a 70% complete Illustrator file of the font. Traced from a scan of the genuine discs I have. The date progression of opposite of ETA, so the numbers have to be laid out to match ETA, and not the 1570. I'm sure getting printed on white is not a problem as Arch as the file, I've got an almost complete file as well as the material to print on. I think what everyone is trying to acheive is the "holy grail" of overlay. The brushed radial finish overlay. And this is not an easy task, especially with the thin material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) 0.20mm is too thick for an overlay for the reps. It has to be the same thickness as rep overlays. 0.07mm. I have some Stainless steel blanks in 0.07mm that I had made to try and replicate the burshed finish, but the brushed finish is hard to replicate. I've tried making a few brushed blanks, but can't match the genuine disc. I have two genuine brushed radial 1570 discs for reference. I think they will have to be made from aluminum to match the look and finish of the gen, but then that will be very difficult to work with, especially at 0.07mm thick. I have special ordered some 0.07mm aluminum material from a local supply company and when I get it, I will see how easy it is to work with. I'm not imagining it to be that easy. I also have a 70% complete Illustrator file of the font. Traced from a scan of the genuine discs I have. The date progression of opposite of ETA, so the numbers have to be laid out to match ETA, and not the 1570. I'm sure getting printed on white is not a problem as Arch as the file, I've got an almost complete file as well as the material to print on. I think what everyone is trying to acheive is the "holy grail" of overlay. The brushed radial finish overlay. And this is not an easy task, especially with the thin material. The member who first asked me to work on this one, told me that the same thickness of the Ingy overlays I made, it was fine. If you are totally sure that only a 0,07 thickness would work, I will need to ask to my printer if this is enough thickness for him to print out. I will let you know tomorrow then. But even in case he will tell me it is fine, I will need to ask you to give me the material. When i asked him about the radial brushing, he told me that he already made several DWs re make, for the genuine Rolex watches, so I suppose he well know how they should look. But tomorrow I will ask again in more detail. If you have a good scan of the genuine DW, it might help. Thanks. Edited January 16, 2008 by lello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 A proper metal white or brushed 0.07mm (thickness) overlay for a 1665 would be welcome from anyone able to perfect them. I am sure the original crew still have the proper dimensions & illustrations, but I did a high res scan of 1 of my Watchmeister DWs before it was installed, so if anyone needs it just let me know. And you can count me in for at least 1 metal overlay DW for an ETA 2846 (in a 1665 Seadweller) if these do become a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 A proper metal white or brushed 0.07mm (thickness) overlay for a 1665 would be welcome from anyone able to perfect them. I am sure the original crew still have the proper dimensions & illustrations, but I did a high res scan of 1 of my Watchmeister DWs before it was installed, so if anyone needs it just let me know. And you can count me in for at least 1 metal overlay DW for an ETA 2846 (in a 1665 Seadweller) if these do become a reality. Please forgive my ignorance on Rolex... What's the difference between the overlay for the 1680 and the 1665? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 lello please !!!! im sure there is a huge demand for this - i take at least 2 for sure. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Please forgive my ignorance on Rolex... What's the difference between the overlay for the 1680 and the 1665? The overlays in the gens are the same, but there are at least 2 different versions of ETA movements being used in our reps & the overlays for each version of movement may be different. Or not. But I do not know for sure because I have only used the 2846 in my watches. Maybe Ziggy or someone else has the specs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Yes, the thickness for the overlay must be no thicker than 0.07mm when used with the 2846 or 2836-2. Both movements are the same dimensions. The only way a gen disc thickness (0.19mm) can be used is if you use a thinner movement. a 2824-2 to replace the 2836-2, or build a hybrid 2846 in a 2824-2 mainplate. A spacer will be required between movement and dial to allow for stem alignment. This spacer also allows for clearance of the thicker overlay. Lello, I had my blanks made to the same dimensions as the rep overlays. OD is 23mm, and ID is 15mm. Thickness is 0.07mm. These are not date discs, but date overlays. They must be glued on top of the ETA date disc. That is why they have to be so thin. Please check with your printer if he can replicate the finish on such a thin material, if so, then I think we are on to something. I don't think getting the file is a problem, just the radial brush finished blanks to print on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'm sure many of you would be very happy if I would make some good overlays for this one and maybe even other Rolex. I just need to make sure nobody would be damaged, in case somebody else already started working on something like this. Atta boy Lello! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) I have done it on my white 1680. You need another Dial spacer to do it right. Than it rotates free on a 1680. but the numbers on the wheel look damm blurry under the huge magnification of the tropic... I think too blurry,so i decided to change back to my old Datewheel from the Bay... Lello i have a gen silver datewheel, if you need it for reference,just let me know... There you can see the printing of the numbers and the finish of the metall... i think you are the right man to do this,your other wheels look fantastic... Edited January 17, 2008 by Tribal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 If someone can come up a correct Rolex DW overlay for ETA movement, it will a huge thing probably lots of the members here in the board if not all will order at least one, I am in for 4. you can never have too many of those. Wat to go guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsupilami Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 A proper metal white or brushed 0.07mm (thickness) overlay for a 1665 would be welcome from anyone able to perfect them. I am sure the original crew still have the proper dimensions & illustrations, but I did a high res scan of 1 of my Watchmeister DWs before it was installed, so if anyone needs it just let me know. And you can count me in for at least 1 metal overlay DW for an ETA 2846 (in a 1665 Seadweller) if these do become a reality. material is available, but you cannot brush ss, you have to sand it. (very difficult with 0,07 mm thickness.) http://www.hasberg-schneider.de/deutsch/standard.html maybe it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Some updates about this overlays: I just spoke to my printer. The good news is he is going to try making these overlays. He perfectly knows how to make the radial brushed effect, as this is something he makes quite often to restore original Rolex vintage date wheels. He also knows very well which material to use and he talks about brass foil which will be made silver, by a galvanic process and then brushed by this radial technique, which has an exact name, but that now I don't remember. No problems at all for the radial brushed finish and the print though. However, what he is not sure yet, is if he will be able to cut these rings so thin, because he is a little afraid that this thin foil could get deformed during the cut. He will need to order the special tool to cut these rings (overlays discs), which he will put on a proper machinery. In order to make this tool, he needs to know the exact size of these overlays. As I was told they should be OD = 22,5 mm and ID = 14,5 mm But Stilty yesterday talked about OD = 23 mm and ID = 15 mm Please, I need to be TOTALLY SURE about these sizes, as this tool will be quite expensive. So please let me know asap about the actual size. Before to proceed, he will need to get assurance from the tool maker, that a 0,07 brass foil won't be deformed during the cut process though. So let's keep fingers crossed! ANd please let me know asap the size, thanks very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Well don't take this as the final word, but according to my calipers an Ubi overlay measures: 23.05mm OD, 14.91mm ID. These are as close as I can get. The overlays are floppy and difficult to measure precisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Well don't take this as the final word, but according to my calipers an Ubi overlay measures: 23.05mm OD, 14.91mm ID. These are as close as I can get. The overlays are floppy and difficult to measure precisely. Thanks Brian! well, I don't think that a 0,1 mm could make a big issue on these overlays anyway... So, I'm going to communicate : OD = 23,0 mm and ID = 14,9 mm If anybody thinks this is wrong, please say it right away! ---------------- Ok, I just spoke to my printer and gave him these sizes. Now he is going to build a temporary cutting tool and he will try to cut a foil of 0,1 mm Then, if the cut will come out fine, he will order a proper tempered cutting tool and a 0,07 foil. Are you sure guys that a 0,1 mm, wouldn't be thin enough? Edited January 17, 2008 by lello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsupilami Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Thanks Brian! well, I don't think that a 0,1 mm could make a big issue on these overlays anyway... So, I'm going to communicate : OD = 23,0 mm and ID = 14,9 mm If anybody thinks this is wrong, please say it right away! ---------------- Ok, I just spoke to my printer and gave him these sizes. Now he is going to build a temporary cutting tool and he will try to cut a foil of 0,1 mm Then, if the cut will come out fine, he will order a proper tempered cutting tool and a 0,07 foil. Are you sure guys that a 0,1 mm, wouldn't be thin enough? I measured a 1655 abay/paul overlay . It had ecactly 0,07 mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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