HauteHippie Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Thanks Brian! well, I don't think that a 0,1 mm could make a big issue on these overlays anyway... So, I'm going to communicate : OD = 23,0 mm and ID = 14,9 mm If anybody thinks this is wrong, please say it right away! I would go with what Stilty said... My measurements were imperfect, and just a sanity check. I think they showed that his numbers are correct!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 I would go with what Stilty said... My measurements were imperfect, and just a sanity check. I think they showed that his numbers are correct!!! I think the diameter sizes are fine, as I really don't think that a 0,1 mm could make any difference, however, my printer is going to make the cutting tool for OD = 23 mm and ID = 15 mm. It's a shame that the genuine movement are turning the DW counter clockwise, because my printer has the clich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Hi Lello, will these dw fit my unusual ETA2824-2 MBW 1680? I have one of the only few special (aka strange) 1680 that has the 2824, and I was just curious to see if these DWs would still fit. if it doesn't, I'd still take at least one since I have a 1665 that I "think" has the 2836 inside, ready to be swapped out with a 2846. but this is exciting news indeed. I also still have my 2 watchmeister's DWs too, but they are just sitting around right now. I think I'll wait a bit to see how this project turns out! Good news to all of us I'd say..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Hi Lello, will these dw fit my unusual ETA2824-2 MBW 1680? I have one of the only few special (aka strange) 1680 that has the 2824, and I was just curious to see if these DWs would still fit. if it doesn't, I'd still take at least one since I have a 1665 that I "think" has the 2836 inside, ready to be swapped out with a 2846. but this is exciting news indeed. I also still have my 2 watchmeister's DWs too, but they are just sitting around right now. I think I'll wait a bit to see how this project turns out! Good news to all of us I'd say..... Thanks William! I don't think there won't be any problems to fit this (eventual) overlay on your 2824-2, as 2824 and 2836 DWs have exactly the same size, except for the extruded ring that the 2836 has on the bottom, but this doesn't affect the overlay issue at all. I hope I will have some more news tomorrow, or on monday. As I said, now it's just a matter of the 0,07 foil don't getting deformed during cutting... I will keep you posted. You know what?..., if this project will succeed, i will definitely buy an MBW 1680 for myself too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Hi Lello, I don't think you will have a problem moving them as the shiny radial finish will be the 'holy grail' in the vintage rep community! The only problem I had with the cutting of my blanks, was that they curled slightly after being cut. It is just the nature of the metal. It is not that big of a deal as it does lay flat if glued down. Also, I don't think you can make an actual date disc and still be able install it on the movement. The date postition is different. Glueing an overlay isn't that difficult, providing one uses a slow set epoxy which allows you time reposition the overlay. This sounds exciting! Anyone want go buy a couple of genuine date discs? Don't think I'll need them for reference anymore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Hi Lello, I don't think you will have a problem moving them as the shiny radial finish will be the 'holy grail' in the vintage rep community! The only problem I had with the cutting of my blanks, was that they curled slightly after being cut. It is just the nature of the metal. It is not that big of a deal as it does lay flat if glued down. Also, I don't think you can make an actual date disc and still be able install it on the movement. The date postition is different. Glueing an overlay isn't that difficult, providing one uses a slow set epoxy which allows you time reposition the overlay. This sounds exciting! Anyone want go buy a couple of genuine date discs? Don't think I'll need them for reference anymore! I think you can really count on the shiny radial finish, as this person who would make these overlays, is the one who any watch reseller in Italy and sometimes from abroad as well, call when they need to restore a dial, or DW on genuine watches and he made already these vintage DWs for gens. If you are also sure that cutting the 0,07 foil, won't represent a possible problem, then we would be almost done with the "Holy Grail"! But I want to hear that from my printer mouth... Let's keep our fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Lello, Great to see you apply your mastery to this project. I will be in for at least 3.........a flat top 3 of course:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 If you are also sure that cutting the 0,07 foil, won't represent a possible problem, then we would be almost done with the "Holy Grail"! Thickness of hair is 100 microns! 70 seems awfully thin!! *fingers crossed* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Thickness of hair is 100 microns! 70 seems awfully thin!! *fingers crossed* Yeah, but hair under the cyclops isn't very appealing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Thickness of hair is 100 microns! 70 seems awfully thin!! *fingers crossed* You are right Brian, 0,07 mm it's a very thin stuff..., almost as an onion skin... You make me wonder about something: If as I'm hearing, these overlays will be glued on 2824 and 2836 wheels, which both have the outside diameter of 23 mm (as the overlay) and internal diameter of 17,5 mm and this means 2,5 mm wider than the overlay. This means that this thin film, will be jutting beyond the wheel inner edge, as we can see on this image: If this is true, it means that there will be a 1,25 mm all around which doesn't lay on the wheel, but it's jutting on outside..., is this correct? Can anyone let me know the exact measure from center axis of dial and center of date window? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 You are right Brian, 0,07 mm it's a very thin stuff..., almost as an onion skin... You make me wonder about something: If as I'm hearing, these overlays will be glued on 2824 and 2836 wheels, which both have the outside diameter of 23 mm (as the overlay) and internal diameter of 17,5 mm and this means 2,5 mm wider than the overlay. This means that this thin film, will be jutting beyond the wheel inner edge, as we can see on this image: If this is true, it means that there will be a 1,25 mm all around which doesn't lay on the wheel, but it's jutting on outside..., is this correct? Can anyone let me know the exact measure from center axis of dial and center of date window? yes, there will be a bit of overhang on the ID. I don't know the exact measurement, but the axis of the Rolex date disc and number layout is smaller than ETA. That is why the overlay is used. Here is an example of the 12892 with a 3135 date disc attached as overlay. The layout is correct in your picture, that is how they have to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 yes, there will be a bit of overhang on the ID. I don't know the exact measurement, but the axis of the Rolex date disc and number layout is smaller than ETA. That is why the overlay is used. Here is an example of the 12892 with a 3135 date disc attached as overlay. The layout is correct in your picture, that is how they have to be made. The ID of the overlay is 14mm. You want to go with the most rigid material available. Since these will be screen printed a WIDE variety of very rigid materials should be available. MBW uses painted metal, which creates a verry shitty print IMO, but there are many kinds of specialized plastic print media that will work great using the latest screen printing inks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Unless I am missing something, if you have access to blank ETA 2846 datewheels, why not just print directly onto that since the (slow beat) 2846 is the optimal movement for these vintage Subs and SDs? This way, as long as the printer gets the printing right on the DW, it will be a simple swap for any owner or watchmaker. Makes alot more sense than to print onto an extra substrate that the owner (or his watchmaker) then has to hope they get straight on the DW. On second thought, even if you cannot get blank ETA datewheels, you should be able to use the pre-printed DWs since the radial finishing procedure should remove the exiting layer of paint anyway. Then you just print the new numbers onto the face of the ETA DW & you are all set to install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Unless I am missing something, if you have access to blank ETA 2846 datewheels, why not just print directly onto that since the (slow beat) 2846 is the optimal movement for these vintage Subs and SDs? This way, as long as the printer gets the printing right on the DW, it will be a simple swap for any owner or watchmaker. Makes alot more sense than to print onto an extra substrate that the owner (or his watchmaker) then has to hope they get straight on the DW. On second thought, even if you cannot get blank ETA datewheels, you should be able to use the pre-printed DWs since the radial finishing procedure should remove the exiting layer of paint anyway. Then you just print the new numbers onto the face of the ETA DW & you are all set to install. Hi Freddy, that would be great, but is impossible to do. The alignment of the Rolex numbers would be printed on the teeth of the ETA disc if they were done that way. That is why an overlay is used. If you have a spare Rolex dial, place it on an ETA movement without an overlay installed. Almost dead center of the Rolex date window will be the teeth of the ETA date disc. The reason the overlays are used is to fit the Rolex date window on the dials. Unfortunately, overlays are the only option as the ETA date disc does not align with a Rolex date window. Rolex 1570, 3035, 3135 date discs are centered 9mm from the dial center. ETA date discs are centered 10mm from the dial center. That is why a Rolex dial will not align with an ETA movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Lancelot Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Can you put a brushed overlay on a 2846 date wheel and then print them? The metal overlay is crazy hard to get all of the numbers centered in the window. After cussin through the two I am using now, I would pay extra to have something you can just remove/replace/wear. Dang that would be so nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Can you put a brushed overlay on a 2846 date wheel and then print them? The metal overlay is crazy hard to get all of the numbers centered in the window. After cussin through the two I am using now, I would pay extra to have something you can just remove/replace/wear. Dang that would be so nice. A few quick tips on installing: 1.) use a slow set epoxy. This gives you some time to make adjustments before it hardens. Four or six small dots on the ETA date disc, opposite each other. Make sure to not apply too much and have it drip or spread anywhere you don't want it! The dots must be spaced equally apart in in opposing each dot as the epoxy can shrink when it dries. Then it may pull in one direction my a 1/10 mm and throw off your alignment. 2.) start with 11 and align that with date window. When centered, set your movement to quick set date, and advance until you get to 26. They adjust until 26 is centered. Then advance to 11 to check that it is still centered. Repeat until both the 11 and 26 are centered. Once both are, then in theory, the rest of the calender will be aligned. 3.) Try and use a rep dial with the dial feet intact to save time. When building frankens with genuine dials, it is necessary to remove the dial feet. This makes it even more time consuming as I find I spend more time ensuring the dial is lined up before I check the disc alignment. If the dial is not aligned, then it will throw out the alignment of the disc. 4.) Always use old parts for test fitting. Save your good stuff for final assembly if you can. Hope this helps. The next time I do one, I'll take some pictures and put together a tuturial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lello Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Stilty, so you need to glue the overlay, directly on the wheel when it is in the movement, to test it in the dial date window. The dots you are talking about, are just used to place the glue in a well balanced way and avoid micro movements during the drying..., right? I'm sure that for several people, this will be a quite easy and exciting job to do. If you will post a tutorial, this will help too. But there will be also people who won't feel to do it and will need to ship the watch away to be done. But I'm not sure if we would have the alternative to let my printer printing the overlays, when they are already glued on wheels, because as part of the numerals will be positioned outside the wheel internal edge, this might create the impossibility to print them properly, because of possible deformations during the print. Let's decide about it, after we will be sure the cutting is solved. Just one more thing: I noticed Archibald saying that the internal diameter is 14 mm. Yesterday I communicated to my printer that it was 15 mm. Should I correct this data before he will be ready with the cutting tool, or would it work fine anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Interal Diameter of most Overlays are 14,9 mm, Outside is 23mm.. But 15 mm inside is ok too... It doesn't matter... I have made a Dateoverlay Tutorial long time ago..... Must search for it... I think installing the Overlay is not the hardest job..... Thanks that you climb in for this project Lello.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Found it Here we go Comparsion of the datewheels Resamble the movemt from the case The hands must bes set to 12' o clock,cover the dial with paper to beware it for damgages Remove the hands Remove the Dial,its glued on the movement,you get it off with a small nife,pull the Knife on the ring where the dial is glued.. Take the knife to pull off the datewheeloverlay paitently After the Ovelay is off, take some glue and put it on the datewheel and allign it. you get best results when you allign the numbers to the middle of the stem put the Dial on the movemnt for a test,when its okay,you can install the hands at 12'o clock than all the same way back and thats the result.. Hope this helps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Lancelot Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Thank you stilty. lots of good info. Great Idea to use a dial with feet. I agree you are aligning the overlay AND the dial. I have had some strange results. It bugs the crap out of me because I know there is no way a genuine could be anything but centered. The huge magnification of the Tropic crystal changes everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alw Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Just found this old thread. I have an MBW 1665 with the Ubi datewheel and the watch stops once per day in average. I gather this is because of the datewheel. Is this something my watchsmith can fix or is the only cure removing the datewheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Datewheel does not have any effect on running performance of the watch. If your watch is stopping once per day, there is likely another issue at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alw Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Thanks. Then I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 If the watch stops at the same time every day, take a close look at the hands. It's likely that they may be coming into contact at some point, and hence causing the movement to hang up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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