Relume - Dial prep advice wanted

[Rocketeer]

I've taught myself the basics of dial printing and luming and now want to progress to re-luming dials where I don't want to completely strip the dial back and start from scratch.

I've only tried scraping back gently with a loupe and scalpel but haven't had great success with that.

So what are the preferred methods of dealing with the existing dial lume?

Thanks

[RWG Technical]

The preferred method (at least for me) is to simply lume over the existing lume (or paint).

I don't scrape anything off of anything.

RG

[notime4u174]

wouldn't the existing lume bleed through? The proper method is to strip the old lume before applying the new. Unless you are certain of the lume type and mixture. And with a rep who knows what you are getting

Edited February 29, 2008 by notime4u174

[LegendofSpeed]

if The Zigmeister hasn't had a problem with it by now, then it isn't an issue.... i'm wearing a The Zigmeister relume today and it GLOWS...

[bwhitesox]

notime...The Zigmeister is the master of relumes so I think he knows what he's talking about.

Do a search and see what I mean.

[hyster]

The preferred method (at least for me) is to simply lume over the existing lume (or paint).

I don't scrape anything off of anything.

RG

wow, I'm surprised by that, I thought more lume applied would make it brighter, cheers for the insight The Zigmeister.

I've spent bloody ages in the past carefully scrapping off the old lume.

Everyday is a schoolday around here

[triplehd]

I thought I had read that too - that it was required to remove the old lume before applying the new lume. However, if The Zigmeister says no - then I beleive it. Saw plenty of is work and it's amazing.

[Rocketeer]

The preferred method (at least for me) is to simply lume over the existing lume (or paint).

I don't scrape anything off of anything.

RG

The perfect answer! Thanks The Zigmeister.

My concerns were that either older Tritium lume could exhibit its usual characteristic and crumble with age under the new layer, or that height restrictions would prevent my getting enough SL on to get a good job.

From what I've seen of your work, I think I'll just try it your way

[RWG Technical]

You didn't mention aged vintage Tritium as a base, I assumed you were asking about luming reps with their existing lume/paint already on them.

So my answer is based on that approach.

If your working on a watch with aged tritium, my first question would be, why remove it, it's like stripping the shellac off an antique and apply polyurathane...not a good idea.

But, if you do decide to relume a Tritium dial, yes, you should scrape the old tritium off and apply the lume on a clean surface, but this will totally destroy the value of the dial...unless it's got no value.

My way is not necessarily the "Right" way, but it's what works for me, if someone wants to try and scrape rep lume off a sandwich dial, good luck, you better have a spare dial and a way to paint the missing lume, because the results are not going to be pretty...

Hope this clarifies my earlier response.

RG

[Daytona4me]

I am just now trying to do my own luming, I am using One-Dip to soak the bottom plate which disolves the lume, I wipe off after 10 minutes and apply my own.

The Zigmeister's method works for him but a novice (or below novice for me) will have the lume too thick and the top dial will not sit correctly on the bottom plate, this will cause all kinds of problems... and thus,, I choose to remove it.

See.. I'm an expert now... I have lumed 2 shitty dials.. and now I'm giving advice.. LOL... but I do think it is accurate to a degree..

I'm sure I'll be corrected if not.

[marrickvilleboy]

Methods differ according to watch's needs. If applying a coat of new lume will potentially cause problems with the hands since they get a little thick, then you will to remove existing lume. Otherwise applying on top is not really an issue.

[Ztech]

My question to The Zigmeister and those who've tried re-luming on their own, how difficult is it? Do you just paint new lume on with fine brushes? I'm sure if it's not a sandwich dial then staying within the lines is quite difficult? I'm thinking of trying it out and wanted to know how difficult it would be. Thanks.

[RWG Technical]

I guess difficulty depends on a lot of things...how much time have you spent working under a loupe is the biggest problem. One eye loupe, one eye, no depth perception... as well as working 2-3 inches from your nose...

Consider the cost of Super Luminova, a kit will run about $50 plus $40 or so in shipping. You can get a cheaper kit made by AF Switzerland, but the lume is not the same quality or has the ease of SL for application.

Then add practice, and more practice, I damaged a number of dials when I started, luckly they were all my own watches.

The lume is the consistancy of snot, so you can't brush it on, you use a metal dip oiler to pick up a drop at a time, and apply it to the dial.

In my case, I have the advantage of having been an artist for almost 30 years...painting with a brush is not that hard, but even with the brushes and paints, not everyone can produce something like this.

Sandwich dials are split for lume, you lume the bottom plate and then re-install the top one.

Saussage dials are a bit harder due to the fact if you slip and get lume on the dial, it will dissolve the dial paint...no room for error...

Good luck if you give it a go.

RG

[Ztech]

I guess difficulty depends on a lot of things...how much time have you spent working under a loupe is the biggest problem. One eye loupe, one eye, no depth perception... as well as working 2-3 inches from your nose...

Consider the cost of Super Luminova, a kit will run about $50 plus $40 or so in shipping. You can get a cheaper kit made by AF Switzerland, but the lume is not the same quality or has the ease of SL for application.

Then add practice, and more practice, I damaged a number of dials when I started, luckly they were all my own watches.

The lume is the consistancy of snot, so you can't brush it on, you use a metal dip oiler to pick up a drop at a time, and apply it to the dial.

In my case, I have the advantage of having been an artist for almost 30 years...painting with a brush is not that hard, but even with the brushes and paints, not everyone can produce something like this.

Sandwich dials are split for lume, you lume the bottom plate and then re-install the top one.

Saussage dials are a bit harder due to the fact if you slip and get lume on the dial, it will dissolve the dial paint...no room for error...

Good luck if you give it a go.

RG

Thanks for your reply The Zigmeister! You've just confirmed what I've been thinking all along. I'm sure I'll figure out a way to screw this up. But I've gotten a hold of a few useless dials/hands and I'm gonna give it a try. It would seem that hands would be easier to apply the lume to, no? I was thinking of applying the lume with the point end of a pin first. Well, here goes nothing. Thanks again The Zigmeister. At least I know if I screw this up, I can always send it out to you.

P.S. Nice painting The Zigmeister. I would show you mine, but I don't want to embarasse myself with the stick figure stuff I do.

[notime4u174]

Right..... Vacuum has an impressive portfolio. Everett has a done a few pieces that are amazing.

[triplehd]

I've seen Vac's examples over at RG and they're amazing.

Fantastic painting The Zigmeister.

[RWG Technical]

Thanks for your reply ziggy! You've just confirmed what I've been thinking all along. I'm sure I'll figure out a way to screw this up. But I've gotten a hold of a few useless dials/hands and I'm gonna give it a try. It would seem that hands would be easier to apply the lume to, no? I was thinking of applying the lume with the point end of a pin first. Well, here goes nothing. Thanks again ziggy. At least I know if I screw this up, I can always send it out to you.

P.S. Nice painting ziggy. I would show you mine, but I don't want to embarasse myself with the stick figure stuff I do.

Thanks, I like this painting as well.

Hands are not done like a dial is done.

You first scrape the bottom of the hands off and remove the lume, they you push and scrape the lume out from inside the hollow part of the hand, and then you apply the new lume from the bottom pulling it accross and down the hand until it's completely covered in lume. Put it aside and let it dry.

Have fun, if you have some old dials, nothing to loose and all to gain in experience...

RG

[iflylow78]

so on a tritium dial how do you make it brighter with out making it junk

[sssurfer]

Wow, I too would have sworn that The Zigmeister recommended to remove the old lume before applying the new one, and to do it by careful hand work with a precision blade.

On my very limited experience, removing the old lume from hands and sandwich dials is a trouble-free and scratch-free procedure, by just dipping them (only the back layer of the dial, I mean ) in acethone for 10 mins then rubbing them with a soft cloth.

And removing the old lume from a sandwich dial helps in not getting it too thick, so avoiding problems with the central pin and small seconds hand.

Obviously, a sausage dial is a completely different matter...

(Awesome painting and painting skills, Rob!)

[Ztech]

Wow, I too would have sworn that The Zigmeister recommended to remove the old lume before applying the new one, and to do it by careful hand work with a precision blade.

On my very limited experience, removing the old lume from hands and sandwich dials is a trouble-free and scratch-free procedure, by just dipping them (only the back layer of the dial, I mean ) in acethone for 10 mins then rubbing them with a soft cloth.

And removing the old lume from a sandwich dial helps in not getting it too thick, so avoiding problems with the central pin and small seconds hand.

Obviously, a sausage dial is a completely different matter...

(Awesome painting and painting skills, Rob!)

How do you seperate a sandwich dial? Is there a method?

[sssurfer]

How do you seperate a sandwich dial? Is there a method?

Well, no special method actually. Just a watchsmith knife, or a thin screwdriver, and patience.

You may have a look at the results in this old post of mine.

Just:

1) it was not focused on separating the layers of a sandwich dial;

2) I told to remove the old lume with a blade -- then I found acethone safer and troubleless;

3) in that post I tried a different (and cheaper) pigment than Superluminova, but I now recommend to go with Superluminova.

[Ztech]

Well, no special method actually. Just a watchsmith knife, or a thin screwdriver, and patience.

You may have a look at the results in this old post of mine.

Just:

1) it was not focused on separating the layers of a sandwich dial;

2) I told to remove the old lume with a blade -- then I found acethone safer and troubleless;

3) in that post I tried a different (and cheaper) pigment than Superluminova, but I now recommend to go with Superluminova.

Thanks again for the info sssurfer. So is there a special method to remove the dial from the movement? I think I read somewhere that you have to unscrew 2 screws from behind the 6497 movement. Is that correct? I need to get a hold of a sandwich dial to give this a try. It sounds easier than doing the hands. Ok, I think I've now got enough info to give this a try. Thanks all.

[sssurfer]

So is there a special method to remove the dial from the movement?

I disassembled only two sandwich dials, both from two PAM 203, one manual-wind (6497 movement), the other one auto ("Asian 21J" movement).

Both they had no screws to keep the dial in place, just two metal pins quite easy to remove from the movement plate (the pins were not even glued). I have been able to remove the dials by simply applying gentle lever action with a watchsmith knife.

[Ztech]

I disassembled only two sandwich dials, both from two PAM 203, one manual-wind (6497 movement), the other one auto ("Asian 21J" movement).

Both they had no screws to keep the dial in place, just two metal pins quite easy to remove from the movement plate (the pins were not even glued). I have been able to remove the dials by simply applying gentle lever action with a watchsmith knife.

Ok, that helps a lot thanks sssurfer. I've read that you need a razor blade to slice the 2 halves of the sandwich dials apart. Is that pretty much correct? I hope I can get this right. Or at least partially. I don't want to have to come back to the forum and post a thread about missing fingers.

[Daytona4me]

You have to find something thin (like a razor blade) but usually a nice thin screwdriver, something that you can use to lever and carefully pry the two halves apart. Be careful not to slice your finger off with a razor blade, but on the same note, be careful that you do not ruin the dial by carelessly shoving a screwdriver and prying with great force.