On the Topic of Swan Necks

[Victoria]

As you know, collectors are having a devil of a time sourcing Swiss/Asian ETA movements with swan necks. Since so many PAMs have the exposition casebacks, this creates another instant tell.

My question arises here.

- How important is this to you?

- Are you going to wait to buy a Panerai rep, until the swan necks come back into production (one collector, DSN, says May-June)?

Some people may scoff at something which is a detail, considering the dial itself has so many tells and one rarely exposes that underside anyway. I wonder why the lack of a swan neck bothers me now, so much, I'm willing to wait to get one.

Is this a minority opinion?

More personal note: Just bought another DSN this weekend, WITHOUT. What are my options in case I want an upgrade later?

[maxmilian]

hm... why care so much ? the rep movements is an obvious tell anyways......

Stick with closed casbacks

coming from a guy with 3 open caseback pannies

[Victoria]

hm... why care so much ? the rep movements is an obvious tell anyways......

Stick with closed casbacks

coming from a guy with 3 open caseback pannies

Heh. Thanks for the reply, Max.

Next PAMs for me: 005, 228 GMT, and now, the new dial DSN 201a.

So no worries there. But I WOULD be interested in the Cali 249, if not for this problem.

The one I am getting now, which is a secret until I reveal it next week, is an open caseback but can be turned into a closed one (he's including it for me, for a small increment).

[maxmilian]

you are really into DSN ? never liked his cases .... but I love my 082 dial, and the 228 will be intressting any pictures of this one yet ?

and ohh let me guess 111-E alias 001-B

[NuTymer]

I'm in no way a PAM afficionado, as I own only a two PAM pieces that are relatively easy tell (but I got them for that certain aesthetics as a fashion accessory, not for its faithfulness to a gen). I never take my watch off to show it to someone, so the display caseback is never a problem for me, but I've read that swan neck on all rep movements are non-functional and purely for decoration only. So with so many easy tells for Paneristi to call out on your rep, I don't know if swan neck is a detail worth sweating.

[Victoria]

you are really into DSN ? never liked his cases ....

Remember that rep watch people fall into two categories. And I'm a quality person, not an accuracy person.

But then the details I target might be different from others.

but I love my 082 dial, and the 228 will be intressting any pictures of this one yet ?

He's been lax about updating even his RWI section. I'll ask, but I think not. His "new" dial 005 comes out later this week. I'm stoked.

and ohh let me guess 111-E alias 001-B

You are sooo close. But you have to think outside the box. That's ALL I'm sayin'.

@NuTymer: Hugs fellow 'Geek! Hope it comes back up soon.

[vootzilla]

The swan neck and the dagger-shaped needle really means a lot for me, haha.....

Nothing about the accuracy compared to the gen, but purely the beauty I like to see them on my watch...

I dont even really know what's the function of them.

:-D

[MK08]

Remember that rep watch people fall into two categories. And I'm a quality person, not an accuracy person.

I guess I'll never understand the love affair with Davidsen watches, the ones I've owned were all sold off fairly quickly (one without even making it on my wrist). I just don't equate quality with all the issues common with his watches. Anyhow about the issue of swan neck (or lack thereof) I really wouldn't lose much sleep over it, as was mentioned even the best of the rep movements don't hold a candle to the real deal.

[spike]

So based on the comments here I'm quite lucky to have bought a swiss 6497 swan neck movement today?

[Ztech]

Remember that rep watch people fall into two categories. And I'm a quality person, not an accuracy person.

But then the details I target might be different from others.

He's been lax about updating even his RWI section. I'll ask, but I think not. His "new" dial 005 comes out later this week. I'm stoked.

You are sooo close. But you have to think outside the box. That's ALL I'm sayin'.

@NuTymer: Hugs fellow 'Geek! Hope it comes back up soon.

Hey Vici,

Do you mind if I ask how you get all this tasty info on what's coming out? Is there a section you keep your eyes glued to?

z

[Victoria]

Hey Vici,

Do you mind if I ask how you get all this tasty info on what's coming out? Is there a section you keep your eyes glued to?

I keep an eye on his forum section over at RWI. As I've mentioned, for whatever reason, it has photos and more info there.

Also, since I just placed an order with him on Sunday, he mentioned the 005 info in passing. The other stuff about the 228 GMT, etc. has been posted here by a few members (Sssurfer, for one).

So basically, just email him and ask.

@Ztech #2: He's a funny sort. Don't take it personally if he doesn't immediately reply. Sometimes he does, and sometimes he doesn't. I attribute that to Eastern practises of not wanting to say "no", if that's his answer about a specific model. He chooses silence instead, as they tend to.

[Ztech]

RWI? Hmm...

Thanks Vici.

[peepshow]

He also has a blog: http://davidsen-dsn.blogspot.com/

On the subject of cases, DSN now uses a mixed bag of "his" cases and standard rep cases. My 010D uses a standard rep case.....

[Chuan]

Some people may scoff at something which is a detail, considering the dial itself has so many tells and one rarely exposes that underside anyway. I wonder why the lack of a swan neck bothers me now, so much, I'm willing to wait to get one.

More personal note: Just bought another DSN this weekend, WITHOUT. What are my options in case I want an upgrade later?

uh oh, sorry Victoria, please tell me that dsn's 005 new version doesn't have many tells. I am interested in his 005 new version and he told me via email that it will be ready at the end of the month.

You would know, dsn's don't come cheap. I've been trying hard to spot the differences between the pictures of the dsn's new 05 and the pics of the 05 from paneristi.com. I couldn't find any glaring tells, but considering that i'm still a noob, would anyone kindly point out the glaring tells out? Thank you so much.

Also, i have another question for the PAM fans. I saw a picture in one of the galleries of paneristi which kinds of draws my attention. I read that gen PAMs have AR, most gen watches like breitling and rollies have pretty strong AR i understand. All the watches in the pictures reflect a fair bit of light, though the reflections seem blue(indication of AR perharps?). My question is this, should i send my crystal out for double-sided AR if i'm looking to be close to the gens?

Edited March 18, 2008 by Chuan

[mjmurphy926]

As you know, collectors are having a devil of a time sourcing Swiss/Asian ETA movements with swan necks. Since so many PAMs have the exposition casebacks, this creates another instant tell.

My question arises here.

- How important is this to you?

Must be important to me. I attempted to order the 177H swan neck from Andrew. He said he couldn't get these movements for a few weeks and offered me the Asian (non-Swan) version and refund the diff. Instead I went with the 104 auto (his best version).

I just hope when the movements become available again, the Ti cases are still available.

[maxmilian]

uh oh, sorry Victoria, please tell me that dsn's 005 new version doesn't have many tells. I am interested in his 005 new version and he told me via email that it will be ready at the end of the month.

You would know, dsn's don't come cheap. I've been trying hard to spot the differences between the pictures of the dsn's new 05 and the pics of the 05 from paneristi.com. I couldn't find any glaring tells, but considering that i'm still a noob, would anyone kindly point out the glaring tells out? Thank you so much.

Also, i have another question for the PAM fans. I saw a picture in one of the galleries of paneristi which kinds of draws my attention. I read that gen PAMs have AR, most gen watches like breitling and rollies have pretty strong AR i understand. All the watches in the pictures reflect a fair bit of light, though the reflections seem blue(indication of AR perharps?). My question is this, should i send my crystal out for double-sided AR if i'm looking to be close to the gens?

The short answer it depends on the series early years c series and back have no AR, later models have one sided AR, but if you use the search function you will find tons of more information about this subject.

[bruce79]

For me it really doesn't matter, I'm all about the reliability of the movement. Most of my problems in this rep game have been with faulty movements...and if the watch (rep or gen) doesn't tell time, what good is it? I don't mind the non swan neck movements and actually like the ETA 6497s with the old style bridges. I've got a Ti pam coming from a fellow member in the next day or two. I've been in contact with David about acquiring an old bridge 6497 with a superlumed 176 dial + hands. I just need to figure out if there are any issues with his dials fitting non DSN cases. Anyone care to chime in?

[Geeeyejo]

I have the swan neck on my 111H but not on my Fiddy - more concerned about the shape and decoration of the bridges being true - the presence or lack thereof of the swan neck is not a deal breaker for me - both movements appear impressive to anyone but an AD or a watch forum afficienado. Couple this with the fact that I only paid $60 for my 111 & $80 for my Fiddy and I am more than happy with the accuracy and quality of both watches...

[Victoria]

The short answer it depends on the series early years c series and back have no AR, later models have one sided AR, but if you use the search function you will find tons of more information about this subject.

That reply, Chuan, is correct (about PAMs in general).

However, to answer your specific question about the DSN 005 -- it is apparently the only 005 in repland with a correctly slanting OP logo (the "mosca"). Unfortunately, it is also considered too large by knowledgeable members.

However, this has ALWAYS been the deal-breaker for me, and I've never bought a 005 because of it. I can't take a badly slanting logo. I'll take an overlarge one, happily.

DSN 005 Thread Here

[Ztech]

I can't take a badly slanting logo. I'll take an overlarge one, happily.

DSN 005 Thread Here

Victoria... this is a family forum.

[Toadtorrent]

Remember that rep watch people fall into two categories. And I'm a quality person, not an accuracy person.

But then the details I target might be different from others.

Hey Lady V,

That's something that is not differentiated enough I think, and a good trait to remember in the rep world - Quality vs Accuracy.

When you start getting obsessed with accuracy or it can get very dangerous very quickly in that you start modding so much that your you end up with what is essentially a gen in an aftermarket case that cost you possibly a year of your life to complete, and a cost not too far off of the real thing, with nowhere the same level of resell value.

With reps, I try to find the value point of getting the greatest quality and accuracy at the lowest price both financially and chronologically.

So, if the swan neck is only aesthetic without function...it would not be worth waiting for. Or, if the swan neck option raised the price by 2x or any other high margin, and the movement was still an EASY tell...not worth it. BUT, if the swan neck movement was indeed a significantly better movement but possibly still a really easy tell...I would still do the upgrade because of the quality added, and low probability of showing the display back to anybody that had the know-how to spot a rep vs. gen, or would be opposed to the concept of a rep.

You are sooo close. But you have to think outside the box. That's ALL I'm sayin'.

Graham Chronofighter Oversized.

[Chuan]

The short answer it depends on the series early years c series and back have no AR, later models have one sided AR, but if you use the search function you will find tons of more information about this subject.

Thanks!

[HammerTime]

As I posted over on RepGeek, there are plenty of properly executed swan neck PAMs available. You just have to know where to look (hint: outside the cartel dealers).

I know, I just bought an incredible PAM127 for $280 shipped. It has everything (lume, correct crown guard, swan neck, dagger pin regulator) except cannon pin fix. In fact the seller just raised his prices $20. Compared to my Angus ultimate PAM127 it holds it's own and appears to have a better crown guard.

I would post the link, but the last time I tried telling folks here about a good watch deal, I got accused of being a shill. PM me and I'll send you a link.

HammerTime

Edited March 19, 2008 by HammerTime

[Victoria]

I would post the link, but the last time I tried telling folks here about a good watch deal, I got accused of being a shill. PM me and I'll send you a link.

I surely appreciate it, HammerTime, but see, I don't buy into all that cartel talk. And I'm a pretty conservative girl, small c. I'd rather to stick to what I know than chance my luck elsewhere.

Borrrrrring.

Perhaps others might be interested, though.

@Hammertime: Thanks so much! U can't touch this! ...always wanted to say that.

[HammerTime]

Victoria,

Anyone that has spent more than 5 minutes on this site knows you are anything but boring. Refined, effervescent and cosmopolitan maybe, but not BORING!

HammerTime

Edited March 19, 2008 by HammerTime