No Comment, Not A Hoax, Just Passing It On:

[#ars]

Everybody who was involved in that "stunt" is a sick f*ck. Pardon my french.

It's not a bad idea to show people how they change their view, if something is put in another proportion. BUT: The whole thing was not completely thought through.

First: The artist himself got death threats - and everybody knows, that there are some crazy guys called "Herbert" out there, who could've actually killed the man. And what then? How would they explain that the guy died, only because he wanted to simulate a sick experiment.

And second: I agree with Victoria.

What next? Finding a little homeless kid, tying him up to a rope in an art gallery to highlight the hypocrisy of the public's "non-reaction"?

Absolutely right.

Edited April 18, 2008 by #ars

[sssurfer]

Try and persuade a dog to simulate death for starving.

Then reconsider whether that may be a hoax or reality.

And the reason for putting up that show is shit. Why did not the "artist" get himself roped and starved, instead of an innocent live being?

[Victoria]

Try and persuade a dog to simulate death for starving.

Then reconsider whether that may be a hoax or reality.

That's a good point.

Some repeat gallery visitors who were interviewed said the dog looked downcast being tied up, and got skinnier and skinnier, more depressed each time they saw her.

We really only have this "artist"'s word and that of the gallery staff that he fed and gave water to the dog. How do we really know he did?

And the reason for putting up that show is [censored]. Why did not the "artist" get himself roped and starved, instead of an innocent live being?

To think it was an official organ that will pay him (in effect to repeat his stunt) to do this...the firestorm this would've generated in other countries is unthinkable.

Some people liken "Habacuc"'s idea with that of Santiago Serra. From Wiki:

"Santiago Sierra (born 1966) is a Spanish artist. He lives in Mexico City.

Santiago Sierra's work reflects on the uselessness of capitalism, for instance he paid a group of workers to move a heavy rock from a point A to a point B and vice versa. On another occasion he paid drug-addicted prostitutes from Brazil in their drug of choice to let them have a line tattooed across their backs."

You know, as disgusting as this is too, especially payment in drugs (ugh) -- given human free will, it's less egregious TO ME. A dog can't be paid or say no.

[Pugwash]

Some repeat gallery visitors who were interviewed said the dog looked downcast being tied up, and got skinnier and skinnier, more depressed each time they saw her.

Did they really see this or did they just believe they saw this?

It's just bad art. The fact there was a dog involved doesn't change that.

Was there actual cruelty? If so, the law should have been involved, and I doubt no-one did anything. I still believe it's a hoax and the majority of investigators agree with me.

One thing it's proved is that people there did nothing and people who weren't are up in arms. This reflects local tragedies so perfectly. You'll sign petitions on your blackberries against cruelty to a dog whilst stepping over the homeless guy in the street that could actually do with your help right now.

I still think it was bad art, but it's bad art we're talking about.

ps. I'm still waiting for the big reveal.

[Victoria]

It's just bad art. The fact there was a dog involved doesn't change that.

On the level of artistry, it doesn't.

But on the humane level, it breaks every moral and ethical rule civilised people have about exploitation.

Bad artists trade on the average person's renowned gift of "not getting it". They know their subversive message will be secondary to the outrage the public feels at the actuality of the art presented. In turn, artists and their pseudo-intellectual acolytes laugh at the public because THEY DIDN'T GET IT.

Chris Ofili-types know this penchant, and that's why they fling elephant dung on a canvas and call it the Holy Virgin Mary.

Again I ask -- where is the artistry anymore? The talent? The genius of the technician, like Picasso? His Demoiselles d'Avignon ushered in the modern age.

By all means, art can be shocking. But do us all a favour Mr. "Habacuc" and at least donate some money to the local RSPCA in your country too. Or maybe, if one doesn't exist, and that's why you did this (allegedly)...take a page from activists and open one.

[Dani]

i agree this guy is sick,but if you respond to it by saying you would starve him,beat him,hang him,make a spectacle out of him,you are just as bad as him.i'd like to know if anyone,after knowing what he did to that DOG,saw someone torturing him, would step in and stop it?

I agree their is no reason to do to him as he did to the dog, but i think its ok to stop him but laws in many countrys does exactly that.

But its in human nature to react to ill doing upon others so as a exampel if i see a kid/guy beat a dog my instinct will get me to deffend that dog and that will result in violence..

Did they really see this or did they just believe they saw this?

It's just bad art. The fact there was a dog involved doesn't change that.

Was there actual cruelty? If so, the law should have been involved, and I doubt no-one did anything. I still believe it's a hoax and the majority of investigators agree with me.

One thing it's proved is that people there did nothing and people who weren't are up in arms. This reflects local tragedies so perfectly. You'll sign petitions on your blackberries against cruelty to a dog whilst stepping over the homeless guy in the street that could actually do with your help right now.

I still think it was bad art, but it's bad art we're talking about.

ps. I'm still waiting for the big reveal.

Have can you compare a homeless person to a dog, the dog did not ask for this..In majority of homeless cases they the homeless have [censored]ed up their own life.

The dog can't choice what life its given we humans breed them and use them as tools and companien theirfor our responiblity.

I help homeless people by giving clothes and helping the salvation army( i think that is US name for the group) they again helps drug addicts and poor people.

This is not bad art its big exempal on human depravity that people just walk and seen this whit no regrets is beyond me.

Dani

[Pugwash]

Have can you compare a homeless person to a dog, the dog did not ask for this..In majority of homeless cases they the homeless have [censored]ed up their own life.

I don't have a comeback to this. It's expressed your stance perfectly and shows exactly where you're coming from.

You can't argue with that level of ... well, you know.

[Victoria]

I don't have a comeback to this. It's expressed your stance perfectly and shows exactly where you're coming from.

You can't argue with that level of ... well, you know.

Great. You're dismissive of Dani because he's judgemental about homeless people, despite giving clothes and helping one charity out (in effect, suspending his judgement for the good of the homeless).

But you feel this was honky-dorry and give every benefit of a doubt to a low-life skunk of an artist. Jeez.

[Pugwash]

But you feel this was honky-dorry and give every benefit of a doubt to a low-life skunk of an artist. Jeez.

Honky-Dorry?

I think it was just a crappy stunt, like the guy who pretended to eat a baby. The artist is a [censored] and I don't care for him one way or another, but the very basis of our law is innocent until proven guilty. Listen to yourselves, you're a mob. What next, put on hoods and get some lynching rope?

I hate animal cruelty as much as the next man, but I also hate mob mentality and people just knee-jerking into action over a hysteria email.

All I'm asking for is a sense of proportion.

[Victoria]

Snipping clarification, which went a long way to explain your point of view.

All I'm asking for is a sense of proportion.

Inherent in this statement, is the idea that you are a proportionate person. If this was a Christian artist making a religious statement in a public place, being given funds so to do by local government, I suspect your dispassion would've taken a dive.

The artist wanted a reaction. He's getting one.

[Dani]

Great. You're dismissive of Dani because he's judgemental about homeless people, despite giving clothes and helping one charity out (in effect, suspending his judgement for the good of the homeless).

But you feel this was honky-dorry and give every benefit of a doubt to a low-life skunk of an artist. Jeez.

Vic first of rated your post above wrong, shoud have been agree not spam, sorry.

And to puggy did not expect more from him either way so no worrys on that..

I now people fall of and get homless but many are drinkers and drug addicts so in compare to a dog they brought the problems on themself, ok i agree on they need help everyone deserves that i don't write them of as trash and i try my best to help when i can..

Cheers

[ryyannon]

I hate animal cruelty as much as the next man, but I also hate mob mentality and people just knee-jerking into action over a hysteria email.

The hysteria email was backed up by a $hitload of written and pictorial documentation, press clippings and articles in a hundred different languages. Nowhere was it intimated that the artist might have - wink-wink-nudge-nudge - been just funning. More than a million people bought into the story, before it was alleged to be a hoax on a... ahem... French ("Trust us: we also brought you the Muhammad al-Durrah story") website.

The odds that the million+ people who signed the petition were all hysterical lynch-mob material seem remote to me. Even moreso the vision of all of them distractedly stepping over the bodies of the homeless as they signed the petition on their Blackberries....

All I'm asking for is a sense of proportion.

Ya, mon, I'm with 'ya all the way...

[Pugwash]

Inherent in this statement, is the idea that you are a proportionate person. If this was a Christian artist making a religious statement in a public place, being given funds so to do by local government, I suspect your dispassion would've taken a dive.

Strawman. You're making something up and telling me how I'd react.

I'm done here, as it's obvious this thread and its ilk is not the place for a call for calm, reasoned thought.

[55evp]

however vile and sick this stunt must be, this pathetic excuse for a human artist will have the last say. in other words, his little stunt has been more successful than he could have ever dreamed. with his disgusting "project" completed he has stirred up a furor that has made him and his name a household term for a lot of us. bad press is still press.

[MAHLER]

"Guillermo Habacuc Vargas intended the work to be a stunt to show how a starving dog suddenly becomes the centre of attention when it is in a gallery, but not when it is on the street."

other voices:

"Even if the "artist" deleted all his recent (compromising) statements (as he obviously uses the crack and marijuana from his exhibition also at home), we are in contact with the Costa Rican and Nicaraguan reporters, who have written about the "exhibition". We were assured that the dog is dead, as cruel and unbelievable it may seem to so many of the people."

and this

"El perro muri

[MAHLER]

the point of view of Guillermo Habacuc Vargas:

"

[ryyannon]

Who the hell really knows.

But it does look like Guillermo is seriously considering the possibility that some other dude's next 'art project' will have something to do with kidnapping him, renaming him Douchebag and then locking him up in a basement and throwing away the key

[MAHLER]

Who the hell really knows.

But it does look like he's seriously considering the possibility that some other dude's next art project will have something to do with kidnapping him, locking him up in a basement and throwing away the key

[Dani]

the point of view of Guillermo Habacuc Vargas:

"

[ryyannon]

"

[Victoria]

Strawman. You're making something up and telling me how I'd react.

I was ready for this.

I'm done here, as it's obvious this thread and its ilk is not the place for a call for calm, reasoned thought.

Wait, come back! *waves frantically*

Tell me how you would react to this?

"A student at Tomah High School drew a landscape picture for an art class containing a road, clouds, and mountains with a cross in the background and the words “JOHN 3:16 – A sign of love” written in the sky. The teacher of the class told the student to either remove the scriptural reference or cover it up with a border."

The student refused.

"The teacher gave the student a grade of zero for the assignment. The student also received two detentions."

Which side appeals to you? The budding young artist with a Christian theme, or the teacher who disallowed it and punished him for it?

[MAHLER]

"Guillermo was a very sick guy and would have died in the streets anyway." I mean, we're all going to die someday, anyway, right?

"whohavethebestsub" don't die !! Guillermo perhaps... don't have a best sub...

[Pugwash]

Which side appeals to you? The budding young artist with a Christian theme, or the teacher who disallowed it and punished him for it?

Duh, the teacher was wrong.

Some of the most amazing art in the history of ... er, ever was done with a religious theme. You'd have to be a munce-head to denounce it because it's got an imaginary theme.

ps. WTF? We're discussing religion again?

[ryyannon]

"whohavethebestsub" don't die !! Guillermo perhaps... don't have a best sub...

I know someone who has a lot of liquore di Mahler...

[Victoria]

And lots of publicity for me! Guillermo was a very sick guy and would have died in the streets anyway.”" I mean, we're all going to die someday, anyway, right?

Separated at birth?

Guillermo "Schmuc" Vargas

Divine

@Ryyannon: The original Hairspray is one of my favourite cult films! Talking about true artists, the world would be a more magnificent space with more John Waters around.