Removing movements / chrono's to remove crystal

[lanikai]

HI,

in an effort to maximize chieftangs AR coat because Ziggy can only do so much ... i need some direction so i can remove the crystals form the watches .. i would be exstatic and in euphoria if i could have some instruction on how to do this.. also those extremely annoying dust flakes on the dial that appear from no where, it would be nice to get them out of the dial..!!

I am willing to invest in a crystal press and what ever tools I need... all i wanna do is remove the crystal ... .. not change the face of the Western World...

are all the crown removals the same ?? Are there screws holding down all movements ??what attention do you pay tot he chrono pushers ??

how to store movements until the crystal is reinstalled ??

any help would be greatly appreciated...

I did do a serch but could not find any comprehensive tutorials on this .. Rolexes yes.. but I don't need to right now and the keyless works can wait..

thanks in Advance

aloha

Lani

[marrickvilleboy]

Lanikai,

a few things to note.

Generally in all modern watches, the crystal can only be removed from the inside of the watch. Which means you will need to remove the movement first and then use a crystal press to remove the crystal.

As for movements, the 7750 movement requires the pressing of the stem release when removing and re-inserting the stem. The pushers are not connected to the movement so the procedure is not too complicated but many often mess up the keyless works when removing the stem so always pay extra attention to that.

As for storing the movement, I normally place it in small plastic pouches or in fixed containers.

Hope this helps.

Edited April 13, 2008 by Marrickvilleboy

[lanikai]

Marrickvilleboy Posted Today, 12:14 PM

As for movements, the 7750 movement requires the pressing of the stem release when removing and re-inserting the stem. The pushers are not connected to the movement so the procedure is not too complicated but many often mess up the keyless works when removing the stem so always pay extra attention to that

Hi M,..

thank you you have done crystal removal and install for me and there has never been a problem.. however I would like to be able to do this basic chore myself for the simple reason of convenience.. logistics and availability ... I can get more crystal out..and to Chief..

does anyone have pics ?? or is it the same as removing the rolex stem ?

In what position does the stem need to be in upon removal.. time setting.. calendar setting.. fully closed setting ??

and in what position when reinstalling; and does it make a difference when you reinsert the stem as to where the crown is or was.. i know this sounds like a lot of questions for something that in most members experience is simple .. but in my minds eye it is hard to get a picture..

how can the "key less works" be damaged or: the does and don't of this?

I see most pics .. the crystal being removed with the thumbs of ones hand .. is this acceptable ?/ i for sure will get a crystal press to reinstall though

thanks in advance

Lani

[sssurfer]

Do NOT use fingers to remove the crystal, lanikai!

Also, it would be pointless to use fingers to remove it once you have a press to reinstall it.

Both for removing and reinstalling, but especially for reinstalling, use the larger press dice that fits the crystal's circumference.

Auto movements usually have a pin to press to release the stem, while the 6497 has a screw to turn 1.5 turns counterclockwise. They are the pin or screw closest to the stem near the movement border. There are pics somewhere here.

Best crown position to release the stem is fully inserted (winding position).

The 2892A2 movement is an exception to this, I prefer to release its stem with the crown fully extracted (set time position). Warning: I seem to remember that The Zigmeister prefers the winding position in any cases.

Messing up with the keyless work is unfortunately quite easy until you get some experience on releasing and reinstalling the stem. But it is also an easy fix for any watchsmith, unless you broke some parts of the keyless work -- what happens only if you use force to put the stem back in when you feel resistance.

You can mess up the keyless work only when you reinsert the stem. The best way to avoid it is to be very delicate and slightly rotate the crown like to wind the watch when reinserting the stem, and also reinserting it not perfectly horizontal but at a slight angle from up to down (obviously letting it become horizontal as long as it goes in).

I never encountered screws to release the movement from the case, other than the tiny screws holding the spacer ring in place.

I keep the removed movement under a plastic bell securely holding on its basement. No dust allowed here.

P.S.: my (small) experience is on PAMs only.

[marrickvilleboy]

SSSurfer is correct - winding position is best (even for the ETA2892A2)

keyless works get messed up because the tiny components that make up that area are displaced when removed incorrectly.

[lanikai]

sssurfer Posted Today, 02:45 PM

Messing up with the keyless work is unfortunately quite easy until you get some experience on releasing and reinstalling the stem. But it is also an easy fix for any watchsmith, unless you broke some parts of the keyless work -- what happens only if you use force to put the stem back in when you feel resistance.

You can mess up the keyless work only when you reinsert the stem. The best way to avoid it is to be very delicate and slightly rotate the crown like to wind the watch when reinserting the stem, and also reinserting it not perfectly horizontal but at a slight angle from up to down (obviously letting it become horizontal as long as it goes in).

thank you sssurfer and merrickv.... if Ziggy does it a certain way then i will research more or if he ould be kind enough to drop a post here .. i would appreciate it... it may seem easy to those who have done it.. but i would rather not learn by mistakes (my own).. i will go ahead and order a crystal press.. see if anyone can post pics or see if I can find a watchsmith that will give a quick tutorial..

for me .. trying to follow written instructions without visual is kind of like me trying to explain to someone in a letter the theory and method of "bench pressing" .. and kinestetically using your lats, traps, pecs ... limbs in a certain angle and sequence .. at the same time coordinating that with the 3 parts of the lift.. and someone just following the written explanation to do it..

I am determined to do this right and not by experimentation either.. so thank you very much for your input .. maybe i can digest some of this and go to the next step .. i have a couple of dead movements that I can try .. and see what problems i encounter..

thanks again..

lani

[RWG Technical]

I'll only add a few points.

Winding position for stem removal for all models and types, too many reasons why this is the best way, my opinion only, but it works.

Inserting stem, 7750 turn stem while inserting till it stops, then press on the release pin and push the stem in place, it takes a hard push on this one to seat it. Little risk of popping the keyless works out of place.

2836, 2892 etc ETA and variants, insert the stem while turning it, very gently or you will mess up the keyless works, for me I insert the stem gently, turning it until I feel and see the winding gear engage and the movement is being wound. At this point, I turn the stem while winding (which holds the clutch gear in place) and press the stem home. DO NOT Press on the release pin on any of the ETA's.

6497, 1.5 to 2 turns of the set lever screw to release the stem, once the stem is out, screw the screw back in. Reverse for installation, little risk of screwing it up.

RG

[spookycord]

has anyone removed the crystal or movement from a Mont Blanc Timewalker? I'm stuck.

[Pix]

That's an excellent thread, thx for the summary.

@SSSurfer : why not use fingers to remove the crystal ? Is there a technical issue ? (I must say this is the way I'm doing now)

For the ETA, I should better have learnt things properly before

I did exactly what I should not have. I was happy to be able to remove the stem. And could never re-engage it That was fixed by a watchsmith friend.

I found it easier for an Asian 21J.

[lanikai]

I'll only add a few points.

Winding position for stem removal for all models and types, too many reasons why this is the best way, my opinion only, but it works.

Inserting stem, 7750 turn stem while inserting till it stops, then press on the release pin and push the stem in place, it takes a hard push on this one to seat it. Little risk of popping the keyless works out of place.

2836, 2892 etc ETA and variants, insert the stem while turning it, very gently or you will mess up the keyless works, for me I insert the stem gently, turning it until I feel and see the winding gear engage and the movement is being wound. At this point, I turn the stem while winding (which holds the clutch gear in place) and press the stem home. DO NOT Press on the release pin on any of the ETA's.

6497, 1.5 to 2 turns of the set lever screw to release the stem, once the stem is out, screw the screw back in. Reverse for installation, little risk of screwing it up.

RG

:humbsupsmileyanim:

THANK YOU .. RG

Your words are easily digested and now in my minds eye I can at least "see" something of a drawing of what to do.. going to order a crystal press ... I'm going to give it a go on a couple of watches that are not being used often..

Oddly the 7750 chronos seem the less complicated out of all the examples

thank you so much RG....

Aloha~Cheers

R

[sssurfer]

@SSSurfer : why not use fingers to remove the crystal ? Is there a technical issue ? (I must say this is the way I'm doing now)

With fingers you apply pressure on two points only, pressure does not get evenly distributed on the crystal's circumference.

Often this may work, but sooner or later you will hear a "crack" and you will know you had better used a press...

Obviously this applies especially to thin crystals. Non-domed PAM crystals are quite thick, so less prone to break (still, they are also tough to remove with fingers).

[lanikai]

Well, this looks adequate for a few times a year use.. should be about 50 to 60 usd shipped..

@sssurfer.. sounds like experience talking .. i will use the press.. thanks..

[sssurfer]

Well, this looks adequate for a few times a year use.. should be about 50 to 60 usd shipped..

It is barely adequate, lani, but if you plan to make removing and reinstalling crystals a frequent job of yours, I recommend you get a screw-in press instead. It will allow you to grade more finely the pressure you apply.

Also, and especially, that lever press is designed to reinstall crystals (and press-in casebacks) rather than to remove them. I suspect that, with it, you might soon find yourself to remove crystals by your fingers once again.

@sssurfer.. sounds like experience talking .. i will use the press.. thanks..

You are welcome any time, R.

[freddy333]

I agree with sssurfer. I have a few crystal presses -- both levered & screw types -- and the other problem with levered types of presses is that while they are very easy to use, the 'jaws' often do not open wide enough to fit everything you need in between them. This is a common problem when working on Daytona or Seadweller cases.

These are pretty good & reasonably priced

180.606

[lanikai]

Thanks very much sssurfer and F-3.. does gesswien make the screw in ... just looking at them makes sense.. looking at the plier type lever makes me a little nervous.. if the crystal is not sitting exactly properly on the lip of the case it could spoil ma day...thanks gentlemen...

[sssurfer]

I use exactly the same press shown by Freddy, and it behaves absolutely decently.

The only problem are the dies, that are far less than perfect. Still, they do their job.

And you can always get better dies independently from the press.

I got a few, and they fit that press without any problems. I suppose that the fitting hole diameter is quite standard.

[Pugwash]

I use this press with nylon dies. It's cheap, but has managed every watch I've thrown at it.

Sure, I'd love more pro equipment, but if you're like me and skint, this will do.

[freddy333]

I use exactly the same press shown by Freddy, and it behaves absolutely decently.

The only problem are the dies, that are far less than perfect. Still, they do their job.

And you can always get better dies independently from the press.

I got a few, and they fit that press without any problems. I suppose that the fitting hole diameter is quite standard.

The dies that came with the levered press are actually quite good, so I use those (with a screw-down press) most of the time. I also got a separate set of Bergeon dies that come in handy on occasions. Pugwash's dies look pretty good, too.

By the way, if you want to save some money & have a good bench or hobby vice laying around, you can use that, too. These caseback/crystal presses are really just vertical vices. If you fit the vice jaws with rubber sleeves (available at Sears & most hardware stores) & are careful, you can fit a pair of dies between them & do a very credible job of fitting casebacks & crystals. I have had to resort to this approach with a couple of thick watch cases. Works like a charm. Just be aware of the amount of pressure you are applying so you do not crush your watch.

[HauteHippie]

Well, this looks adequate for a few times a year use.. should be about 50 to 60 usd shipped..

@sssurfer.. sounds like experience talking .. i will use the press.. thanks..

Lanikai get one with nylon or delrin dies, not aluminum like shown above. I don't like the idea of reinstalling AR coated crystals with metal dies.

Question for those with the screw type presses (I have the exact same lever press Pugwash shows): Does the upper die spin as you screw downward?

@sssurfer : No problem removing crystals with a lever press. I do it regularly.

[ryaku]

I bought a screw-in press but i can't use it to remove crystals as there aren't dies of the right size (too small diameter).

Can you tell me where i can buy some spares?

Cheers

[freddy333]

Question for those with the screw type presses (I have the exact same lever press Pugwash shows): Does the upper die spin as you screw downward?

No.

[freddy333]

I bought a screw-in press but i can't use it to remove crystals as there aren't dies of the right size (too small diameter).

Can you tell me where i can buy some spares?

here

[lanikai]

hows this.. about 100 usd dosen't seem like I'm going to need more dies than these.. i may need 1 more size up which I can get ..ala carte

thought's on why not to go the so called easy and faster route....

Bad experiences or "no" experiences with the bergeon crystal lift .. no need to take watch apart device ??

something that sounds too good to be true usually is..

[HauteHippie]

hows this.. about 100 usd dosen't seem like I'm going to need more dies than these.. i may need 1 more size up which I can get ..ala carte

thought's on why not to go the so called easy and faster route....

Bad experiences or "no" experiences with the bergeon crystal lift .. no need to take watch apart device ??

something that sounds too good to be true usually is..

You don't need that Bergeon lifter at all for what you're doing. And you don't need to spend $100 on a press. I spent less than half of that. And, believe me, I am a big advocate of not skimping on tools, but this press (the one in Pug's pic) just works and works well.

[freddy333]

The crystal lift is for watches that have non-removable backs, so you remove the movement through the front of the watch case.