bertieng Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) I got the information that there are actually Chinese replica ETA2892-2 movements in our watches. The look of these rep. movts look exactly the same even with the ETA engravings on the movt as well. This news is new to me. Anyone got some idea on this issue as I always thought when our dealers said it is ETA2892-2 then it is meant to be Swiss. If it is true that they are really reps., then with all the good money we paid.......just for a Chinese rep. ETA???? Edited June 23, 2006 by bertieng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 No one will ever tell..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrickvilleboy Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 yeah the ones without ETA markings are a chinese based movement. A few of us have dismantled it and serviced it, its not bad and does very very closely resemble the construction of the 2892. If its oiled and lubricated well, it is very reliable, but it should be advertised differently, and I agree with you. But as long as we all know, than thats fine i guess.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryaku Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) I got the information that there are actually Chinese replica ETA2892-2 movements in our watches. The look of these rep. movts look exactly the same even with the ETA engravings on the movt as well. This news is new to me. Anyone got some idea on this issue as I always thought when our dealers said it is ETA2892-2 then it is meant to be Swiss. If it is true that they are really reps., then with all the good money we paid.......just for a Chinese rep. ETA???? Uh...now i understand why often 2892 replicas cost as much as 2836-24 replicas (see omega aqua terra for example). Edited June 23, 2006 by ryaku Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robideaux Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) i thought this was resolved already: the eta movements are not fake but ordered loose pack and simply assembled in asia. i don't think the chinese have gone so far as to imitate the eta logo... look at the cn 6497 and 7750 -- no eta logo there. i believe that if they really did duplicate the 2892 movement they would be up front about it. those who make disparaging remarks about our reps not really having swiss movements are only referring to the assembly. Edited June 23, 2006 by robideaux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polynomial Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) About a year ago there was an issue with (I think Eddie's) 063's, he was apparently recommending strongly against the 2892 version, The Zigmeister was claiming this is the best movment, better then gen Rolex, etc. but what we did not bring into dicussion was the possibility Eddie knew something about those particular 2892 movemnets we did not -- copy or scrap or something like that? Edited June 23, 2006 by Polynomial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertieng Posted June 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 About a year ago there was an issue with (I think Eddie's) 063's, he was apparently recommending strongly against the 2892 version, The Zigmeister was claiming this is the best movment, better then gen Rolex, etc. but what we did not bring into dicussion was the possibility Eddie knew something about those particular 2892 movemnets we did not -- copy or scrap or something like that? I think it should be the 2893-2 for the GMT, not the 2892A2 we are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrickvilleboy Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 i thought this was resolved already: the eta movements are not fake but ordered loose pack and simply assembled in asia. i don't think the chinese have gone so far as to imitate the eta logo... look at the cn 6497 and 7750 -- no eta logo there. i believe that if they really did duplicate the 2892 movement they would be up front about it. those who make disparaging remarks about our reps not really having swiss movements are only referring to the assembly. yes, there has been rumours about this, but we are not talking about the standard "loose pack" ETA -2824/2824. We are talking about the supposely 2892 that was found in alot of the Omega range - Old factory 007, current aqua terras. Because thanks to Gran, we found that the movements are actually from a Chinese brand - SEAGULL. Look at this LINK The movement that I am referring to is the ST-18. It is cosmetically almost identical to the 2892, well that ST-18 is actually what is in those watches that were advertised as ETA 2892s. hope this clears everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryaku Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 yes, there has been rumours about this, but we are not talking about the standard "loose pack" ETA -2824/2824. We are talking about the supposely 2892 that was found in alot of the Omega range - Old factory 007, current aqua terras. Because thanks to Gran, we found that the movements are actually from a Chinese brand - SEAGULL. Look at this LINK The movement that I am referring to is the ST-18. It is cosmetically almost identical to the 2892, well that ST-18 is actually what is in those watches that were advertised as ETA 2892s. hope this clears everything. Thanks Marrick, i didn't know. Now i wonder if i'd better take 2824/36 or 2892 omega. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Anyone got some idea on this issue as I always thought when our dealers said it is ETA2892-2 then it is meant to be Swiss. If it is true that they are really reps., then with all the good money we paid.......just for a Chinese rep. ETA???? The ETAs in replicas are NOT Swiss. However, they are identical to the ETAs in Swiss watches apart from one cog, a polish job or a screw. We are not being scammed by dealers who are telling us we're getting real ETAs, as we are. Remember, the Swiss don't make ETAs, they just add a screw or a cog to say that it's made in Switzerland. ETAs are made in China. If a movement is labeled ETA, it's an ETA. Swiss is a bad word to use as even when the Swiss use it it doesn't mean what you think it does. No-one sells a Swiss replica as they simply do not exist. Let me try another way as I'm reading what I'm writing and it appears ambiguous. In our replicas, Swiss means "having an ETA movement". ETA Movements are made for the Swatch Company by Chinese factories. Scammers also use Swiss to try to get you to buy a watch that doesn't exist. The Swiss watch companies use "Swiss Made" to denote a watch that has been assembled in Switzerland. Is that clearer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrickvilleboy Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Thanks Marrick, i didn't know. Now i wonder if i'd better take 2824/36 or 2892 omega. Even though the "2892" or ST-18 is not "ETA" it is still made very very well and to be honest, if i had a choice to pick up the same watch with a choice of movements for the same price, I would favour the ST-18 as I will oil and lubricate it and it will be running like a charm, in addition, the 21 jewel 2892 design has been regarded as one of the best movements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) I have little doubt that Seagull are probably a subcontractor who have in the past manufactured the parts that ETA and others use to assemble their watch movements, and have gone into assembling complete movements either 'under licence' or with their own branding (as per AMD who started their PC CPU manufacturing days making processors under licence for Intel - which is how AMD acquired the rights to the i386 instruction set!!) The micro-regulator design on the 28xx line is something I am pretty sure ETA patented, so seeing it there on the ST-18 makes me think this is more than just a 'copy' movement. We've seen movements dressed to look like other with non-functioning micro-regulators (Asia 7750, CN Unitas with swan neck etc), but this one actually works! Incidentally - the ST-25, based on the ST-18/2892 design, is the movement used in the PAM 090 power reserve reps, and that particular watch is the best timekeeping rep I currently own... Edited June 23, 2006 by r11co Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 I can only speak for the decorated "2892's" in high end Muller reps. Aside from being almost exact copies of muller movements (a sad comentary on the expense Muller puts into it's 10k watches, IMO) which are amazingly accurate. I bought three of them "loose" to put in frankenmullers, but until I can find a source for Muller-like hands have used them to replace the generic asian movements other reps. 2 of the three are COSC, the 3rd is close. These reps don't get a lot of wrist-time, but so far not a problem w/ reliability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Aside from being almost exact copies of muller movements (a sad comentary on the expense Muller puts into it's 10k watches, IMO) which are amazingly accurate. Didn't Muller get done for using CN movements recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Didn't Muller get done for using CN movements recently? Unless it was very recently, I think it was a scandal about them using Poljot 3133's in some of their chronos and giving them the same "FM" movement number as they did the watches powered by lemania 1873's. Muller is the kind of company that charges MORE for the king conquistador chrono, powered by a stock 7750, than they do for the regular Conquistador chrono, which has a FP 1185 inside! That's an expensive oz of stainless in the King-- and a bit of evil genious marketing bait and switch that, of course, goes unnoticed by 99% of the people who buy mullers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Unless it was very recently, I think it was a scandal about them using Poljot 3133's in some of their chronos and giving them the same "FM" movement number as they did the watches powered by lemania 1873's. It was 2003 iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Even though the "2892" or ST-18 is not "ETA" it is still made very very well and to be honest, if i had a choice to pick up the same watch with a choice of movements for the same price, I would favour the ST-18 as I will oil and lubricate it and it will be running like a charm, in addition, the 21 jewel 2892 design has been regarded as one of the best movements. So I guess this ST-18 is not the precursor to the official "Swiss polished" 2892-A2 but rather a copy of that movement? What indication do we have that it is a high tolerance copy and not something manufactured to look like the 2892 but without the acuracy and longevity? Since the rotor hub on the 2892 is the signature landmark I use to identify it, how do we know Seagull isn't putting nice earings (rotor) on a pig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) So I guess this ST-18 is not the precursor to the official "Swiss polished" 2892-A2 but rather a copy of that movement? What indication do we have that it is a high tolerance copy and not something manufactured to look like the 2892 but without the acuracy and longevity? Since the rotor hub on the 2892 is the signature landmark I use to identify it, how do we know Seagull isn't putting nice earings (rotor) on a pig? Weasel words CC. The above comments come from people who have owned watches containing these movements and they are relaying their (good) experiences. Heck - Marickvilleboy has even worked on them. You know these movements are good because people who have them are telling you they are. Who is it has been telling you they aren't? Edited June 23, 2006 by r11co Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Since the rotor hub on the 2892 is the signature landmark I use to identify it, how do we know Seagull isn't putting nice earings (rotor) on a pig? Wow. I use the ETA logo and the model number printed on it ... It's much easier that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Wow. I use the ETA logo and the model number printed on it ... It's much easier that way. Me too, I'd be annoyed if some of these reps (PAM GMTs) at the group buy frice of around USD435 dont use genuine ETA movements... cos then they may be overpriced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Weasel words CC. The above comments come from people who have owned watches containing these movements and they are relaying their (good) experiences. Heck - Marickvilleboy has even worked on them. You know these movements are good because people who have them are telling you they are. Who is it has been telling you they aren't? Just asking questions my weasel labeling friend No one has been telling me different but I was VERY enthusiastic about picking up an Aqua Terra or Franck Mueller with these movements when I thought they were genuine ETAs and now, I'm not so sure. I have done a photo comparison between Josh's AT caseback and the genuine and from the photos, it's very difficult identify differences. BTW, Josh's clear caseback is VERY accurate to the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 I was VERY enthusiastic about picking up an Aqua Terra or Franck Mueller with these movements when I thought they were genuine ETAs and now, I'm not so sure. Does the dealer say they're ETAs? If so, you're safe. Either they are or you can return it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Does the dealer say they're ETAs? If so, you're safe. Either they are or you can return it. Josh even prints it in a special font http://perfect-clones.com/product_info.php...products_id=923 Movement: Swiss Eta 2892-2 Automatic Movement, Nickle Plated Machined Decorated With Insignia on Rotor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Josh even prints it in a special font That looks very much like a 2892. Loads more here: http://images.google.com/images?q=eta%202892 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 (edited) I was VERY enthusiastic about picking up an Aqua Terra or Franck Mueller with these movements when I thought they were genuine ETAs and now, I'm not so sure. Two questions for you.. 1) What do you define as a genuine ETA? This issue has been touched upon above. "Swiss"? "Swiss Made"? Built to an approved ETA design by an authorised sub-contracotr but not actually marked as such, or does it actually have to carry an ETA marking (and we all know what value we should place on authentic markings on our reps, don't we...!)? 2) Why be unsure of a movement that people here have testified to being as good as what you are expecting it to be? I guess some people will never be convinced. Am I the only person who sees the irony in someone trusting the description 'Genuine Swiss ETA movement' on a product that is carrying a load of countefeit logos, even if it is said in good faith....? Many of our movements have been mistakenly described or named to suggest they are 'of a quality' eg. Lemanina that we know now is the ST Venus copy (although some dealers still persist), and the Chinese handwinds were in error described by even some of our most 'trusted' dealers as swiss when they first appeared. All the movements used in our reps are designs going back 20, 30, 40, 50 or more years, licensed to countless manufacturers and produced and assembled in hundreds of locations, and it ridiculous to believe that they are manufactured to one exacting standard in one single place - there is no mass produced product on the market with such a long history that can make such a claim. Edited June 23, 2006 by r11co Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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