Hell no! My watch didn't make it...

[outlandos]

I've bought a watch (rep) from a fellow member on these boards and he send the watch with Fedex to The Netherlands.

On the package he wrote:

"Repaired and returned timepiece valued at $70"

Now I got a letter from Fedex, stating that the customs want prove that it's my watch and prove that I have shipped it from the Netherlands to the USA first.

I can't prove any of these two things...

What can I do?

Is there anyting I can say to defend myself? I dont mind using a lie to get my watch, because im a poor student and my last money went into this watch!

Any help would be very much appreciated!!!

[takashi]

1. You should create a "fake" repair receipt. Your seller maybe can help you.

2. Shipped using airmail, no proof. They can't do anything about it.

3. Worst come to worst, return the package to the USA. Don't use FedEx. Airmail works best.

[narikaa]

Misinformation..............

They cant do this - they wont do that....understand customs can do exactly what they want and theyve had centuries perfecting their art.

The returned repair thingy is all well n good until they want proof that this expensive watch (as they are looking thru their eyes at a gen of course) started its journey from you and of course that it is properly duty paid.

RTFM

Check out your countrys Customs proceedures and there will doubtless be a way that is required BEFORE sending item outwith your country for repair etc.

Also check this : inbound gift tax free level. Whatever it is declare under that and gift wrap it would have been a better M.O.

FEDEX et all

Are hand in glove with customs (customs crack the whip & they obediently jump) ...good ole Post Office air mail is the mode of choice.

[outlandos]

Misinformation..............

They cant do this - they wont do that....understand customs can do exactly what they want and theyve had centuries perfecting their art.

The returned repair thingy is all well n good until they want proof that this expensive watch (as they are looking thru their eyes at a gen of course) started its journey from you and of course that it is properly duty paid.

RTFM

Check out your countrys Customs proceedures and there will doubtless be a way that is required BEFORE sending item outwith your country for repair etc.

Also check this : inbound gift tax free level. Whatever it is declare under that and gift wrap it would have been a better M.O.

FEDEX et all

Are hand in glove with customs (customs crack the whip & they obediently jump) ...good ole Post Office air mail is the mode of choice.

So, is there any hope for me getting the watch w/o having to pay 19% of $5000 (that's what a gen costs) ?

I'm getting more and more desperate

[b16a2]

This is indeed a tricky situation, because as far as they know, it's a genuine watch that is trying to pass through customs at a lesser value. If it was truly being returned due to servicing, why would it be sent uninsured with a 70 dollar price tag....and you can't explain it has been sent like this because it is a rep otherwise they'll keep it. As has been mentioned try making up a service receipt, but I personally wouldn't hold my breath, its the gamble we take in buying reps unfortunately. If you can send it back without paying customs charges try that.

[narikaa]

Unfortunately the 'Runes were cast' when the packet was sent with the ill conceived (and little thought through) lie on the declaration.

This has now reared up to bite you & left you in an indefensible position.

This is similar to wrapping watches up inside another item....all very clever, until its looked at , then concealment = certain smuggling in the eyes of customs officialdom - with all that entails.

[Watchmeister]

So sorry to hear this. Customs can do anything they want and Narikaa is absolutely right. It is a great idea to see if you can get it sent back to the original sender. In general FedEx is the worst. They were the first folks to rollover when the whole Homeland Security thing came up.

[outlandos]

This is indeed a tricky situation, because as far as they know, it's a genuine watch that is trying to pass through customs at a lesser value. If it was truly being returned due to servicing, why would it be sent uninsured with a 70 dollar price tag....and you can't explain it has been sent like this because it is a rep otherwise they'll keep it. As has been mentioned try making up a service receipt, but I personally wouldn't hold my breath, its the gamble we take in buying reps unfortunately. If you can send it back without paying customs charges try that.

If I ask them to return the package to the sender do you think they will refuse?

Edit: and second-handed B&R's are being sold for as low as $1500 on ebay, so those watches are not that expensive.

Edited June 7, 2008 by outlandos

[P4GTR]

I'm sorry to hear that. These guys know better then me what to do.

Its a bit upsetting that people find a hobby most would consider so mundane is "a menace to society", or whatever. I stopped making cars loud and fast, I dont drink daily or do any illegal substances... This hobby now, still not good enough for society? What is? Padded room timesharing?

Maybe we should all start knitting, get that goodswiss yarn. buy those Huskvarna machines and fix em up with special parts...

.. We'd probably start making our own rep clothing within a week.

[narikaa]

Best as I can figure you have two options:

Take in on the chin....act daft say you bought the watch in the Netherlands - for reasonable money (which you will have to invent a plausible scenario for) and you unwittingly sent it to USA for mods/repair without giving thought to this problem, and see how it goes. Best case, they smile and let you have the watch....worst case they hit you for duty (pay or forfeit the watch).

or

Contact them and say you don't know anything about it, whoever sent it has mixed you up with someone else, and SUGGEST they return it.

No easy choice I'm afraid

.

Edited June 7, 2008 by narikaa

[outlandos]

OK thank you. I guess I'll tell them the following:

I bought the watch from a friend of mine for 700 Euro nearly a year ago and that it needed repair for special servicing, something that is a lot more expensive in The Netherlands. I have never thought the customs would make a fuzz out of this, as it ain't a that expensive watch.

Do you think I should tell them this?

What should I change in this story? Could anyone please rewritten it (as you can see my English ain't good; I need a dictionary to understand nakiraa's posts complety )? You would have my eternal respect! I am not good at these kind of things

Best as I can figure you have two options:

Take in on the chin....act daft say you bought the watch in the Netherlands - for reasonable money (which you will have to invent a plausible scenario for) and you unwittingly sent it to USA for mods/repair without giving thought to this problem, and see how it goes. Best case, they smile and let you have the watch....worst case they hit you for duty (pay or forfeit the watch).

or

Contact them and say you don't know anything about it, whoever sent it has mixed you up with someone else, and SUGGEST they return it.

No easy choice I'm afraid

.

Edited June 7, 2008 by outlandos

[surpur]

So sorry to hear this. Customs can do anything they want and Narikaa is absolutely right. It is a great idea to see if you can get it sent back to the original sender. In general FedEx is the worst. They were the first folks to rollover when the whole Homeland Security thing came up.

Never use FedEx for rep watches - ever!!! Airmail, Airmail and Airmail...

[sander]

Hi outlandos,

Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

In Januari I send a watch to TWP for modding (how stupid was I??? ) with registered post to the USA.

On the shipping receipt I wrote defective watch movement.

In Februari I bought a genuine FM in the USA (cheap $) and had it send over to The Netherlands. Before he send it to me, I e-mailed the dealer a letter, with a description of the

[outlandos]

Hi outlandos,

Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

In Januari I send a watch to TWP for modding (how stupid was I??? ) with registered post to the USA.

On the shipping receipt I wrote defective watch movement.

In Februari I bought a genuine FM in the USA (cheap $) and had it send over to The Netherlands. Before he send it to me, I e-mailed the dealer a letter, with a description of the

[takashi]

I believe there is an option of refuse package and it will be returned to sender. Please check with seller if this is the case (you need to tick this option before sending out the package).

To me, safest option is to refuse package.

[Shundi]

I think they can simply confiscate it if they so choose...

[njespo]

i agree with robi.....try that and see if it works....

best of luck and i hope you have a happy ending!

[sander]

Wow.....

Thanks for sharing your story mate. Can I just ask them to send it back? Are they allowed to refuse sending it back?

I really don

[outlandos]

I really don

Edited June 7, 2008 by outlandos

[Cats]

Outlandos,

good luck with the customs and Fedex but they are realy teaming together.

This will be a tough story.

I agree with robi but don't be disappointed if they go all to way and fine you big time.

Carpe Diem

Cats

[narikaa]

Wow.....

Are they allowed to refuse sending it back?

I reiterate...customs can (and will) do as they please

I think they can simply confiscate it if they so choose...

----as above---

They can tell it's a fake? even if it's a very well done fake?

Maybe yes, maybe no...but if in doubt they hold pending a definitive answer from the owners of the marque (with all the ensuing fun that brings about)

I already replied to Fedex last friday, so I can't tell them now the package wasnt for me, it's too late for that

something about stable doors springs to mind

If they want prove I first send it to the states ill tell them i used regular airmail and if they want they can return the watch to the sender, i think that's my best option...

Personally I would go with a handwritten predated 'bill of sale' for a couple of hundred euros 'Sold as seen with mechanical problems as agreed' (transaction done in home country).

You shipped to USA after much internet searching for cheap fix....amateur smith did this for $70...unfortunately he in unfamiliar with International shipments (as are you).

And appeal to their better nature and the low key nature of this matter may carry it for you.

In these situations ask what seems normal...'send my watch back to a repairer who has apparently on he face of it tried to hoodwink customs'...is not normal.

.

Edited June 8, 2008 by narikaa

[truzement]

I was in the same sort of situation two years ago.

My PAM 187 was stopped by Dutch customs and I received a package without a watch.

The sender marked the package as repaired chronometer or something.

There was a letter attached that It was illigal to import replica watches etc, etc...

Thinking of what to do and also calling this for help on this board, I got another letter te next day from customs.

This was a whole diffrent type of letter. They stated that the watch was exemined by an expert and that it was a real panarai watch.

But through the simple way of packaging it was asumed to be fake.

They gave me a few options, proof that the watch was bought in the netherlands, or pay the tax.

I considered making a false bill or receipt but didnt do it.

I got a lot of advice not to do so.

The best advice I got was "not to get my arm amputated over a splinter".

ordering a fake watch is one thing, making false bills is (tax)fraud and a whole diffrent ballgame!!

My advice forget the watch and bite the bullit.

or in dutch "Vergeet het horloge en bijt door de zure appel heen!"

[sander]

I was in the same sort of situation two years ago.

My PAM 187 was stopped by Dutch customs and I received a package without a watch.

The sender marked the package as repaired chronometer or something.

There was a letter attached that It was illigal to import replica watches etc, etc...

Thinking of what to do and also calling this for help on this board, I got another letter te next day from customs.

This was a whole diffrent type of letter. They stated that the watch was exemined by an expert and that it was a real panarai watch.

But through the simple way of packaging it was asumed to be fake.

They gave me a few options, proof that the watch was bought in the netherlands, or pay the tax.

I considered making a false bill or receipt but didnt do it.

I got a lot of advice not to do so.

The best advice I got was "not to get my arm amputated over a splinter".

ordering a fake watch is one thing, making false bills is (tax)fraud and a whole diffrent ballgame!!

My advice forget the watch and bite the bullit.

or in dutch "Vergeet het horloge en bijt door de zure appel heen!"

I do agree with Truzement. I know it hurts but you don't want to get into big trouble for $500,-. Also I think that customs are getting trained in how to spot a fake and that they probably also read these forums.

[ravishingrick]

I have read numerous times on this forum that ordering 2 fake items from abroad is permitted in the Netherlands. Have any Dutch residents ever received a fine or have there reps confiscated by Dutch customs when ordering less or equal to two reps before?

If it is legal to order a rep or two then this changes the whole situation. I would not hurt to look up in the Dutch customs import regulations if you can find such a regulation in writing.

[scoobs1971]

If your watch is still at Fedex and not (yet) at Custms I would tell them this:

1. You don't wanna go through all this hassle and prefer to have them send it back to your 'friend'.

Only if they ask you more questions about why you say:

1. You bought the watch second hand and don't have anything in writing to proof it's yours (personally I wouldn't wanna gamble with fake receipts...).

2. After you got confirmation that your friend received the watch in the US you threw away your postal receipt.

You may check this in case Fedex hands it over to Custms (= regulations in Dutch. check #6 and table 2): hxxp://archief.om.nl/beleid/beleidsregel.php?rid=306.

In short the scenarios are:

1. Custms consider it a rep and confiscate the watch. Since it's only 1 (you're tollerated to own 3), you're off the hook. But I wouldn't be surprised if your name/address would end up in some sort of 'alert'-list, so for the next time you'd better use another address.

2. Custms consider it a gen and they will charge you import duties/19%VAT and probably use the catalogue price. You need to proof you bought it cheaper. I'm not sure if you can reject the package and have it returned to sender, though.....