Replica affair over before it really started?

[bluerex]

Hi fellas,

I have bought my first replica from Joshua 2 weeks ago (PAM177H) and last night I have discovered 2 scratches on the crystal.

I am sure these weren't there when I first received the watch so it

[JohnG]

Crystal: Synthetic Sapphire Crystal front and back , Front AR Coated

Water-resistant

Sorry you had to find out this way - "synthetic sapphire" is mineral crystal. It is a "white" lie some dealers tell - though as far as I am concerned it is a big fat lie.

[freddy333]

I have bought my first replica from Joshua 2 weeks ago (PAM177H) and last night I have discovered 2 scratches on the crystal.

I am sure these weren't there when I first received the watch so it

[bluerex]

Thanks for the above replies guys.

I remember seeing "Synthetic Sapphire Crystal" description when I was buying the watch and did a bit of reading about it at that point crystals

The conclusion that I made was that this watch is indeed fitted with a Sapphire crystal, not a mineral one.

Obviously, I was wrong.

Is is possible to buy a Sapphire Crystal for a 44mm PAM?

Thank you.

[FxrAndy]

@ JohnG

Synthetic saphire does not mean mineral glass, no matter what lies the dealers use, synthetic saphire is what you will find on any watch fitted with saphire glass. from a tisot to a rolex to a patek,

Sapphire refers to gem varieties of the mineral corundum, an aluminium oxide (Al2O3), when it is a color other than red. Sapphire can be found naturally or manufactured in large crystal boules. Because of its remarkable hardness sapphire is used in many applications, including infrared optical components, watch crystals, high-durability windows, and wafers for the deposition of semiconductors, such as GaN nanorods.

The mineral corundum consists of pure aluminium oxide. Trace amounts of other elements such as iron, titanium and chromium give corundum their blue, yellow, pink, purple, orange or greenish color. Sapphire includes any gemstone quality varieties of the mineral corundum except the fully saturated red variety, which is instead known as ruby, and the pinkish-orange variety known as padparadscha.

Some dealers do missrepresent there wears but do not take it as read that any one that uses the wording "Synthetic Saphire" is ripping you off.

[deltatahoe]

@andy, i feel like it is pretty common knowledge that our dealers use "synthetic sapphire" to denote a mineral glass crystal and either "real sapphire" or just "sapphire" to denote a sapphire crystal.

here's a quick example -- see the description on josh's standard asian 6497 pam 111 vs. his description of the pam 212 (which is widely known to have a mineral crystal)....

if i'm mistaken, i'd be curious to hear others chime in as well....

deltatahoe

[lanikai]

I have a mineral crystal on my fiddy .. the one that is my beater in the early morning.. it goes through the gaunlet every morning..

I have buffed out numerous scratches with a dremel and by hand .. using metal polish and a buffing wheel..

actually it takes a lot to scratch even mineral glass .. I've scrapped it against concrete walls withut serious damage..

it will buff out easily ...

[bluerex]

So which crystal is on Joshua's 177H?

I presume its a mineral crystal as it got scratched by me wearing it at home without bumping into anything at all.

1. What do I need to buff out the scratches? I dont have a buffing wheel. What else can I do?

2. Where can I buy a sapphire crystal for 44mm PAM?

Thanks guys

Edited June 26, 2008 by bluerex

[AllergyDoc]

Synthetic sapphire is 'grown' in cylinders up to several inches in diameter, it is essentially aluminium oxide and is effectively the same as natural ruby or sapphire in terms of its physical properties.

Saphire is very very hard, only diamond is harder so when used as a watch crystal you will not scratch it in normal use. This hardness is the reason that ruby 'jewels' are used in the bearings of watch movements. The downside is that the crystal is also very brittle and can shatter if hit hard.

The next material used in watch crystals is mineral crystal, often known by its common name of 'glass', its less prone to shattering but is much softer and easily scratched. These scratches are virtually impossible to remove so it is a poorer alternative to sapphir and is found on cheaper watches.

Older watches also used plexyglass crystals, these are basically 'plastic', they will not shatter but are scratched very easily, however, those scratches can also be removed. Vintage Rolex used this but its not seen much anymore because of the low cost of modern synthetic sapphire.

Courtesy of rc42 on RWG1.

[lanikai]

So which crystal is on Joshua's 177H?

I presume its a mineral crystal as it got scratched by me wearing it at home without bumping into anything at all.

1. What do I need to buff out the scratches? I dont have a buffing wheel. What else can I do?

2. Where can I buy a sapphire crystal for 44mm PAM?

Thanks guys

You should consider investing in a dremel tool.. it's about 35 usd at the hardware store.. comes with all the attachments and red rouge..

I use aluminium mag polish and a dremel with the small buffing wheel.. it's more economical to buy a dremel that another mineral glass. and you will certainly use it if you continue this hobby for case's, bracelets.. etc. .. it is essential if you want to keep the reps looking good

when you get one pm me or post up and we'll walk you through it... easy ..

[FxrAndy]

@andy, i feel like it is pretty common knowledge that our dealers use "synthetic sapphire" to denote a mineral glass crystal and either "real sapphire" or just "sapphire" to denote a sapphire crystal.

here's a quick example -- see the description on josh's standard asian 6497 pam 111 vs. his description of the pam 212 (which is widely known to have a mineral crystal)....

if i'm mistaken, i'd be curious to hear others chime in as well....

deltatahoe

I agree and i know what they advertise as but it is wrong to allow the lie to perpetuate, and alow every one to think that what the dealers say can never be trusted or alow people to wongly belive that synthetic saphire is in reality coated mineral glass.

[bluerex]

You should consider investing in a dremel tool.. it's about 35 usd at the hardware store.. comes with all the attachments and red rouge..

I use aluminium mag polish and a dremel with the small buffing wheel.. it's more economical to buy a dremel that another mineral glass. and you will certainly use it if you continue this hobby for case's, bracelets.. etc. .. it is essential if you want to keep the reps looking good

when you get one pm me or post up and we'll walk you through it... easy ..

Thanks mate. I definitely need to get this. Are some dremmels better than others? Do you use Aluminium mag polish on Glass?

By the way, Joshua sells MINERAL GLASS for $45.

Is there anyone that sells Sapphire crystals for PAMs at all?

[ta8088]

Thanks mate. I definitely need to get this. Are some dremmels better than others? Do you use Aluminium mag polish on Glass?

By the way, Joshua sells MINERAL GLASS for $45.

Is there anyone that sells Sapphire crystals for PAMs at all?

You can get sapphire crystals for PAM's from DSN.

[lanikai]

Thanks mate. I definitely need to get this. Are some dremmels better than others? Do you use Aluminium mag polish on Glass?

By the way, Joshua sells MINERAL GLASS for $45.

Is there anyone that sells Sapphire crystals for PAMs at all?

Just checked Joshua's site this has single Ar and it say's "front".. if it is on the outside of the glass.. you cannot use any buffer or polish.. it will remove the ar coat..

hard to imagione it is scratched if you cannot remember doing so.. try taking your finger nail and seeing if it is some paint from some surface that left the mark.. often times what appears to be a scratch is a mark left from some painted surface..

the Dremel is a trademark name.. dremel is dremel... it does come in handy for buffing the polished case also.. and the sanding wheels for various projects..

Good luck..

btw DSN does sell the sapphire seperately .. he's on the collectors section.. just email him... he sometimes takes a day or two to respond but he will

Aloha~Cheers

Lani

[bluerex]

Just checked Joshua's site this has single Ar and it say's "front".. if it is on the outside of the glass.. you cannot use any buffer or polish.. it will remove the ar coat..

hard to imagione it is scratched if you cannot remember doing so.. try taking your finger nail and seeing if it is some paint from some surface that left the mark.. often times what appears to be a scratch is a mark left from some painted surface..

the Dremel is a trademark name.. dremel is dremel... it does come in handy for buffing the polished case also.. and the sanding wheels for various projects..

Good luck..

btw DSN does sell the sapphire seperately .. he's on the collectors section.. just email him... he sometimes takes a day or two to respond but he will

Aloha~Cheers

Lani

It is definitely a scratch. When I saw it, I spent 5 minutes trying to polish it out with my t-shirt - it is still there. No clue how it happened.

I will contact David re sapphire crystal. Would David's crystal fit Joshua's case?

I have just looked up Dremel. It seems there are a million different varieties of the unit and accessories. Which accessories would I need?

Thanks mate.

[Fish]

It is definitely a scratch. When I saw it, I spent 5 minutes trying to polish it out with my t-shirt - it is still there. No clue how it happened.

I will contact David re sapphire crystal. Would David's crystal fit Joshua's case?

I have just looked up Dremel. It seems there are a million different varieties of the unit and accessories. Which accessories would I need?

Thanks mate.

Do you have a foto? if it

[bluerex]

Thanks Fish. Will give it a go.

Toothpaste didnt work

[lanikai]

Do you have a foto? if it

[bluerex]

cordless dremel.. with charger ... buffing wheels .... sanding wheels small amount of red rouge..

to remove factory AR for chieftangs AR run in the future.. you need the green rouge ... they sell the kit at your local hardware store.. does your crystal look like it has any AR on it ??

Thanks lanikai.

Yes, the crystal has AR.

I have been in touch with DSN and he sells sapphire crystals for $85. I am still not 100% sure whether my watch's crystal is sapphire or mineral glass. Whatever it is, I can get a replacement 1 from Joshua for $45.

Can anyone confirm what crystal is in this watch? 177H

Thanks guys

[JohnG]

@ JohnG

Synthetic saphire does not mean mineral glass, no matter what lies the dealers use, synthetic saphire is what you will find on any watch fitted with saphire glass. from a tisot to a rolex to a patek,

I should have been clearer.

Genuine sapphire is actually a synthetic or manufactured form of sapphire. There are no watches sold (that I know of anyway) with natural sapphire crystals. HOWEVER... many rep dealers (the seller of the watch in question included) use the term "synthetic sapphire" to denote mineral crystal. When they are selling actual sapphire, they say "sapphire."

[P4GTR]

I own that watch. You know what? I thought it was saphire the entire time- until just now.

I was under the impression that synthetic saphire was synthetic saphire when I purchased it back some time ago.

the words synthetic saphire used as the exact opposite of its very definition.

I have so much loving feelings inside to share right now. Can you feel it?

Synthetic saphire.

Sexual chocolate.

[TeeJay]

A quick test for sapphire crystals, is to drop a single droplet of water onto the crystal. If it remains like a 'bead', chances are it's sapphire. If it 'spreads out', it's not sapphire.

[highoeyazmuhudee]

a Synthetic sapphire crystal alone costs $80 at its cheapest brand new.

synthetic sapphire and mineral glass should never be interchangable words. one is hardened glass, the other is literally home grown sapphire that has a mohs rating of like 8 or 9...just below diamond

Rolex=synthetic sapphire only a diamond can virtually scratch it.

Stock Reps= GLASS more scratch resistant than a window but defntly still scratchable. they even chip in my experience.

[bluerex]

Thanks guys. The last few replies have really cleared it up. I am currently ordering a sapphire crystal from DSN. He sells these for $85.

Thanks for all your help.

[blue_sphere]

Its a wise investment and will not be as likely to scratch as the mineral.