Bond SMP from King

[P4GTR]

Hi P4GTR,

Thanks for refering me to this thread, I'll try to help with whatever I can, more as a member than a dealer.

First off I'm not an SMP expert (more a rolex guy...yea yea I know I know... flame me) so all would have to help chime in...

I can "try" to source that watch and make pictures for you, perhaps even take off the bezel, make pictures of the movement. (note "TRY" as I'm quite busy a the moment and my contact in China are working full-time to get / QC / ship orders)

Give me some specs what to look out for... as I believe they have different varriations to this one and I want to source the best one available.

With other words Educate me a bit, I'm always open to learning some more

Can somebody list in clear language --not Omega kinda language, but just simple stuff that even a dummy like me can understand-- what you guys want to know and how to find that out.

Personally it is quite hard nowadays to get with GEN ETA, sometimes I get them only with COPY-ETA (with ease) and need to re-install a genuine ETA which make take a week --lately it's been taking about that time--

Chris, first, thanks for the reply.

-No noob movement/Asian 2813. Copy ETA has correct beat, ability to swap gen ETA in (hands will fit), and it is more reliable than the A2813. in general this you would agree?

-The concern with the bezel: The bezel insert doesn't hold the pearl, the metal bezel ring itself does underneath, and protrudes through the insert. You cant pull the insert off and align the pearl correctly.

Common problems:

-He valve position

-Hand size

-crown guards

Do you have any SMP versions readily available to you with copy ETA? If you do, we can just take it from there even with a quick head on photo.

Here is a Gen 222080 for comparison for you in relation to those common problems:

[mars08]

Sorry P4GTR.... But I think this thread was started with a question about the ORIGINAL 2531.80 "Bond" SMP. Not the newer Coaxial version.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3035/232099...5f79430.jpg?v=0

If they have really changed the way the pearl is mounted, I suspect the bezel alignment could still be an issue

Edited August 2, 2008 by mars08

[whitestripes]

Well, I started this thread, and yes I was after the original 2531.80. However, if the rep factories are over the old Bond, which it seems, I would hope that they undertake the new "red" Bond, and I'm not talking about the crappy ones already out there. Reasons I like the new one: I like how the red Seamaster is grouped with the applied Omega and logo, balancing out the dial a little, instead of being bottom heavy like before. The applied markers are classy, and the new caseback is very, very handsome. Eurotimez, if you can source a good rep of either, you will make a killing. (not that you won't be already with that Euromariner...)

[EuroTimez]

Thanks guys and whitestripes... sorry got back to you so late... I got kind of a nasty cold which is draining me (coughing all day long very bugging).... so I didn't had much time other than replying to my customers and preparing some orders and posting some pictures for clients... as they're awaiting their orders...

I asked my contacts in China to source a few, and we have some stock at my supplier right now but just need to make some pics... so coming soon. Sorry once again to keep you all waiting.

[EuroTimez]

Sorry guys to get back to you so late, I went to BKK and then had it extra busy when I came back... and ehmmm I kinda forgot this thread (For a moment)... my memory started workind again

How does this one compare, I'm not an SMP expert so enlightlen me, I'm here to learn and enjoy this hobby as well.

[P4GTR]

Many thanks for coming through and posting these. Testament to your commitment to the community.

To me that looks like the most accurate SMP rep available to us at the time.

Pins or screws in the bracelet, and mvmt options available to us would be good to note.

Tell the factory to get the god damn bezel lined up.. Why must they stick the insert in the wrong place everytime?

The HE valve should be a bit above 10 o'clock. And the CG's are not right.

The 007 case is much closer.. It's the same [censored]. Why they cannot use that case for the regular SMP is beyond me. 007 case and regular SMP = MONEY.

This is not to detract from what you've posted. Your SMP looks as good as anything currently available, Chris.

[EuroTimez]

Hi P4GTR

Thanks for the kind words.

1. Of course pins in the bracelet.

2. Bezel we'll try to line up ourselves, I already having one done at my watchmaker and see if they can line up the Bezel-insert, then Eurotimez can sell this with alligned bezel insert as part of your QC --if it is possible--

3. Of course we can deliver it with

COPY ETA 2836-2 (most easiest/fastest option and cheap)

OR

GENUINE Verrified ETA 2836-2 movement (takes longer as we install a genuine ETA movement ourselves and it takes some time to do and to get the ETA movement as their a bit hard to get at the moment)

4. You really think the 007 Case is better, if you give me a few minutes I'll post the 007 case...

Perhaps if this is really what the members wants I can have two-watches made into one perfect watch! I need to check the market tho if it is really worth it..... Please members let me know if this is really what you want.

Any suggestions are welcome

[P4GTR]

I've done my best to get this in the right direction, but i've also admittedly reached the limitation of my knowledge.

The pro's need to chime in at this point before any solid decision should be made on your part Chris.

A case with correct HE valve placement and proper CG would make a premium watch, unavailable elsewhere.

Time for bed tonight. Hope to see some SMP-WIS knowledge when I wake up.

[EuroTimez]

Tks P4GTR,

Ya if some Omega SMP-WIS would join us then the part would be complete.

I'm not sure anymore which version 007 this is, I forgot (oeps) too many reps....

I'm not sure if this is the asian version (with asian movement) or the ETA version.

But anyways do you mean this 007 SMP case?

Edited August 14, 2008 by EuroTimez

[mars08]

I believe P4GTR is talking about the more accurate CG's seen on some "007" cases. I share his confusion... why don't the factories make a rep that looks right? Clearly they can get it damn close when they want to!

A few pics of the gen:

.

.

.

.

Let's not worry about the He valve. Just use a case that does a better job of the CG!

[whitestripes]

Here are examples of bargain Bonds with nice crownguards, but fall short in other areas. (from CQout--the "red" seamaster is GBP32 and the older seamaster is GBP30, so roughly $56 with an Asian movement. Edit: I tried to link the pics, but it won't let me include imgs from "dynamic" sites. Easiest: go to cqout.com and search "seamaster." The two cheapest are 30/32 GBP.

First, the red seamaster:

This one looks ok and blows Jandrew's new red seamaster out of the water, especially because the Seamaster is under the Omega, not down by the 6 o'clock marker. I considered buying it, but the seller would not show pics of the back, which is important because the caseback has been upgraded to look like the PO's. Also, if you'll notice, the applied Omega has bars going through the center of the letters, not through the bottom like the Aqua Terras, very very inaccurate.

The older seamaster:

That clasp looks engraved instead of etched--nice! However, the 300m/1000ft is too big, which I have seen on other Bargain Bonds.

What these reps have in common, other than low, low price, is that they have nicer crownguards. While a little sharp looking, you can always file them to shape. The current crownguards available from dealers for the blue bond are too short, which makes an accurate reshaping impossible to do (i.e. a little flat near the case, angles out toward the crown with most of it, well, guarded.

What worries me about these bargain bonds is the crappy bracelet. I don't want it to be made of oyster-style single links instead of the more flexible multi-piece bracelet style on nicer reps.

Hope this helps in your sourcing, Eurotimez.

[FxrAndy]

I believe P4GTR is talking about the more accurate CG's seen on some "007" cases. I share his confusion... why don't the factories make a rep that looks right? Clearly they can get it damn close when they want to!

A few pics of the gen:

The points to note from these photos both Chrises and mars08 are the size of the crown guards, too samll on the rep, and the position of the He valve is too low on the rep. i do like the look of the pearl of the one you have Chris!

[r2d4]

Hi, I would like to help if I can. I have a closed factory SMP case that I can loan to Eurotimes if he can find a maker to copy the case and offer the case for sale. How many cases does a factory require to make an ultimate version? The closed factory case also accepts the gen bezel with a bezel spring mod. Here are some comparison photos between a newer (incorrect HE ) rep case and a my closed factory model.

It would seem real easy to take the new case and just relocate the He valve, replicate the crown guards of the CFM and copy the gen crown tube. The lug holes on the new rep cases have the spacing to fit gen straps. I also dry fitted a gen bezel on the new case and it fits very well.

In summary, move HE, get some crown guards and use a gen style crown tube.

[whitestripes]

Does the closed factory model have the right crownguards?

[r2d4]

Oh and the bezel pearl thing is a trade off. If you can get the bezel off without damaging it you could theoretically locate a new hole to align a flat type bezel spring or take off some wire if it has an internal tooth bezel. So the built in pearl is good and bad. You wont lose it that is for sure.

[r2d4]

Does the closed factory model have the right crownguards?

My gen is at home but they are so friggin close. TBH, I have seen some variations in shapes on the gens from being overpolished. But they are close here is a quick snap shot.

Incidently this has a gen bezel and a gen crown tube/crown installed. A direct fit.

Edited August 14, 2008 by r2d4

[r2d4]

An above shot

[P4GTR]

That would be the one. ahem.. Chris.

[EuroTimez]

Thanks guys, now I got it and I'm really learning

yes I see that the CG of most of the reps SMP are very far from the gen. Now I know that kinda sucks if you're really into OMEGA. Not sure there is enough interest for this closed factory SMP because having a factory make it they you would need to at least make 1000 pieces or somewhere in that nr... and it's expensive to do and not even sure they'll do a great job.

Then you need dial / movement / strap, as you cannot get that from the other factory as they want to only sell the whole watch.

I could ask around but please don't get hopes up high, because I sell watches that are already made, or I can mod several watches into one perfect one.

I apriated the offer from R2D4 and I would like to personally thank you on behalf of also other members interested in this topic for sharing your pictures and taking the time to educate us THANKS!

Regards

Chris

[pollux1]

If Eurotimez can get one with the correct cg's and HEV, and bracelet I reckon it would be in huge demand!

[r2d4]

Thanks guys, now I got it and I'm really learning

yes I see that the CG of most of the reps SMP are very far from the gen. Now I know that kinda sucks if you're really into OMEGA. Not sure there is enough interest for this closed factory SMP because having a factory make it they you would need to at least make 1000 pieces or somewhere in that nr... and it's expensive to do and not even sure they'll do a great job.

Then you need dial / movement / strap, as you cannot get that from the other factory as they want to only sell the whole watch.

I could ask around but please don't get hopes up high, because I sell watches that are already made, or I can mod several watches into one perfect one.

I apriated the offer from R2D4 and I would like to personally thank you on behalf of also other members interested in this topic for sharing your pictures and taking the time to educate us THANKS!

Regards

Chris

Chris you are so very welcome and I will help in any way I can. I also understand the hesitation of tooling up for this case. I also want the rep makers to understand you chould use it for:

and

and

and

Would we sell a thousand units on RWG and other outlets?

Edited August 14, 2008 by r2d4

[b16a2]

Looks like I joined this one quite late. I have done a very brief comparison of a photo you have provided Chris and my gen SMP. If there is anything I can do to help in the progress of a new rep please let me know, I would love to see a good replica of this;

My apologies for not finishing the annotation.

REP;

1) He valve too low

2) Crown Guards wrong shape

3) The part between the white date border and the inner part of the date window is too thick

4) The Lugs are a slightly different shape (slightly excentuated by the angle of the picture)

GEN

REP

Having done the comparison I have realised how good the replica actually is, once on the wrist, no one would be able to differentiate the two!

[pollux1]

EVERY model r2d4 has shown, if made with a correct case and bracelet, i'd buy in a heartbeat.

[whitestripes]

1000 cases is not too much, considering the fact that there has been no "super rep" of the Bond SMP. The new Red seamaster will make big bucks.

[mars08]

Adding to the great list from r2d4 of gens which seem to use the same case...

As mentioned earlier, it's odd that there are SMP "007" reps out there that have the CG size/shape about right. I'm sure I've seen them, but can't find a pic. Here's the gen instead.

If one of these could be matched with the Silix-style dial, bezel insert, hands and bracelet... it would be more than good enough for me!