Guest avitt Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 As the owner of an IWC Portuguese Chrono, I've been keeping an eye on freddy333's posts on the powdered graphite fix for the chronic secs-at-6 problem. Having an interest in hard coatings, I wondered if it might be possible to coat some the parts with Diamond Like Carbon (DLC). I knew that one of the primary commercial uses for DLC is for tribological coating of machine parts, F1 engines, etc. So I did a little research, and figured out that there was a precedent for using DLC on watch movement components. Specifically, Damasko has done some research, and determined that the boundary friction coefficients for dry DLC and steel are nearly as low as steel on an oiled jewel. (See the section entitled "The Oil-Free Escapment" on this site for more information on Damasko's findings.) Having access to coating providers, I decided to give it a try by coating the one main plate that creates the most friction on the seconds at 6 7750. (I did not want to risk loss of damage by coating the actual gears). With the DLC coating on the plate, combined with dry graphite on the gears, I'll be surprised if this movement ever fails due to excessive drag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 That's very interesting. But there's only one way to know if it works... and it takes a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 That's very interesting. But there's only one way to know if it works... and it takes a few years. Happy to endure the wait...with an Ultimate Porto Chrono on my wrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmt Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 That is great thinking. Don't know if it will work, but you guys gotta admit that the collective mind around here is too cool to be believed. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szvwj Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 I love it when people try things like this! It's how problems are solved. You did your research and put your money where your mouth is. I don't see any reason why this should ever fail. How difficult would it be for an average person... like me, to have DLC coating applied? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chubbchubb Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 That is great thinking. Don't know if it will work, but you guys gotta admit that the collective mind around here is too cool to be believed. Thanks! I second that.... (I believe it's called MPP "massively parallel processing") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Great idea, T! I think you've got a winner there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWATCH Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 Sometimes I'm amazed at our members ingenuity. I'm equally amazed at a fix that doesn't require a hammer, vice or hockey puck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 That's great. I'm absolutely in love with my IWC Ingy Chrono, but am afraid to wear it too much due to the seconds at six. So....how do I sign up for the first DLC run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 Guys...I hope that you'll understand when I tell you that I won't be doing this mod for others. Here is my reasoning: I work on my own watches with the understanding that if I screw up, I can usually just spend more money to correct the problems. With that in mind, I probably break 1 item for every 2 that I fix...I accept that. However, when working on someone else's watch, there is too much opportunity to mess something up (particularly when removing or setting chronograph hands, which is still challenging for me). I don't even encourage members to take the movement apart by themselves, as it is a pretty tedious process, and there is plenty of opportunity to break or lose small parts. Therefore, I can only recommend that you contact a true professional, like The Zigmeister, for these types of mods. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 That's very interesting. But there's only one way to know if it works... and it takes a few years. unless you take one thats not working apply the treatment and it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Manny Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 unless you take one thats not working apply the treatment and it works Exactly. It couldn't hurt my IWC any more than sitting at the bottom of a drawer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 Very interesting proposition. What would the estimated (ballpark) cost be for having said gears done? What kind've availability would members unlike yourself have to this process? Does something like this need to be done in large quantities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Guys...I hope that you'll understand when I tell you that I won't be doing this mod for others. Here is my reasoning: I work on my own watches with the understanding that if I screw up, I can usually just spend more money to correct the problems. With that in mind, I probably break 1 item for every 2 that I fix...I accept that. However, when working on someone else's watch, there is too much opportunity to mess something up (particularly when removing or setting chronograph hands, which is still challenging for me). I don't even encourage members to take the movement apart by themselves, as it is a pretty tedious process, and there is plenty of opportunity to break or lose small parts. Therefore, I can only recommend that you contact a true professional, like Ziggy, for these types of mods. Thanks. Avitt -- I could not agree more with your approach here. After suffering a couple of unavoidable mishaps with customers' 7750s, I have seriously limited my intake of additional work. These movements are so finicky, especially the hour totalizer components, that I always have to weigh the possibility of doing more damage by taking them apart against whatever the problem is & select between the lesser of 2 evils. From what I read, the DLC treatment sounds like it could probably be used on its own. Since all of the 7750s I have treated with graphite continue to run without suffering any further secs-at-6 gearing-related issues, I think it is safe to say that powdered graphite provides a permanent fix as well. So we now have 2 tools in our arsenal available to treat this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 I love it when people try things like this! It's how problems are solved. You did your research and put your money where your mouth is. I don't see any reason why this should ever fail. How difficult would it be for an average person... like me, to have DLC coating applied? Fully agree with this, and also with Freddy`s statement that there are now two remedies for this beautiful looking IWC Portugese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 now, who can do this for me? (I suck at removing/placing hands! otherwise I'd do it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 now, who can do this for me? (I suck at removing/placing hands! otherwise I'd do it) Ziggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graman Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 So how much graphite powder should be applied, and where on the gears? Looks like an interesting fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 So how much graphite powder should be applied, and where on the gears? Read this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z3k0 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Is there any jewels on this main plate ? If so, do they have to be removed prior to coating, and is there any other preparation needed on plate prior to coating ? Great job, by the way ! regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugi Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 I can dissasemble the watch,but then who can do the coating for me? Are there any companies in Europe or in the States? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valerian Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Hi I think Bricciola or Francisco do this fix. They're both EU-based. The search should get you the needed information. Val. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo Alves Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Hi I think Bricciola or Francisco do this fix. They're both EU-based. The search should get you the needed information. Val. Hi Francisco used to do graphite treatment but since its not working for all the watches i guess he is not doing it anymore, but you should ask him. About bricciola he was saying that in his opinion DLC coating doesn't work (so i guess he doesn't do it as well) however avitt did it and his watches are working great last time i heard from him. Bricciola i think still does the graphite treatment but you should inquire them about these mods... regards Hugo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 I'm curious as to whether anyone who has had a DLC upgrade has experienced a subsequent failure... I've purchased a few unused seconds-at-six movement from Concepta, and I'm thinking about performing the DLC upgrades, so they can just be directly installed in these Portos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member X Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 I'm curious as to whether anyone who has had a DLC upgrade has experienced a subsequent failure... I've purchased a few unused seconds-at-six movement from Concepta, and I'm thinking about performing the DLC upgrades, so they can just be directly installed in these Portos. Would that be DLC + graphite? I think you may well have a market for such an offer as they would be cheaper than a gen movement and would fix a lot of broken Portos! Would you be allowed to start a 'guaging interest' thread to see? You could take a deposit for the cost of the DLC work so you're not out of pocket, and if people default on paying for the end product, you could still sell the finished movements at no real loss to yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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